Are those who deal with WA cheaters really human beings?

[Eastern Tatarstan]

So both me and my brother are playing NS and each of us has of course a nation in the WA. However, there are times when we both use our only PC to access those nations. As you may know, logging into two different WA nations via the same device rises suspicion. Over the past 2 years we have both received multiple warning TGs for "breaking the game rules". We were told that our nations will be kicked out of the WA, though it did never happen to me personally but it did to my brother. I have no idea how he deals with the warnings but I have been contacting the Mods every time I received one, telling them that it's actually two different guys on the same computer. Recently I received one of those TGs again. I was about to start writing the same complain as usual but I was lazy, I didn't want to write it at all. It was at that time when I asked myself a question. How many times am I supposed to explain the same thing all over again? I'll tell them what's going on, then it will be quiet for a few months and then they come back as if I had never told them anything. It seemed pointless to explain anything at all. I really want to know what's behind this whole mess. What's the culprit?
Do they simply rely on their own memory? Do they come across us, thinking we're cheating, get things sorted out, remember us for a few months, then forget about us and attempt to deal with us again as i they have never seen us before?
Or do they keep track of such stuff but keep it as a secret to themselves, meaning that if another Mod finds us, they have no way of knowing that we ain't breaking the game rules?
Or is this duty handled by a bot instead of actuall people?
This would make sense because I doubt the bot could process and comprehend anything that's not written in machine code. And it wouldn't actually receive any of my explanations at all as they are handled by the people at the "request for moderator intervention".

[Third ZSeparatists]

Read the help article for the World Assembly. It will tell you what you are doing wrong, because you obviously are doing something wrong here, and since they cannot track which hands are on the same computer, you and your brother are technically cheating.

[Third ZSeparatists]

Read this:

I only have one WA nation but my brother has one and he sometimes uses this computer.

Unfortunately that's asking for trouble. We try to identify WA cheats accurately, but we have no way of telling exactly whose fingers are touching the keyboard at any given time. So unfortunately if you don't want to run the risk of being ejected from the WA (or worse), you shouldn't let anyone else operate WA nations from your computer, either.

Sharing a network or IP address is usually fine. The game does not rely on any single method of identifying WA cheats, but combines data from many different methods to calculate the likelihood that multiple WA nations are operated by the same person.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

I heard that the mods look at logs and stuff...

(Also, the op at first sounded like some angry dehumanizing thing...)
Heads up

[Lillorainen]

Oii,
No, they aren't. NS uses a sophisticated algorithm to calculate the probability, that a player runs more than one WA nation. Since you and your brother have continuously used the same device to log in to your WA nations (due to the lack of a second one), the game assumes, that it's 'you' having two WA nations at the same time, thus suspects you of being a WA cheater. A 'bot' cannot know, that you and your brother are two different persons, if you use the same device, after all. ^^
Thus, if there's no other way to get a separate device for each of you, all you can do is agree (or play rock-paper-scissors to decide upon this) on who of you may have a WA nation and who may not. (Also, there are worse things on NS than not being in the WA. ^^)

Greetings,
Lillo

[Jebslund]

Moderation has several tools in their toolbox, but none of them are able to tell the difference between one person with two nations and two people using the same computer. It sucks, but it is what it is. If there's only one computer, looking at logs and IPs is useless, as both are identical for a shared computer vs a single person operating multiple accounts. Posting styles aren't as big an indicator as you'd think, and we're not really privvy to other tools, but the same fundamental issue arises in that, by pretty much every metric other than "take the person suspected of cheating at their word", two people using one computer and one person pretending to be two people on one computer are functionally identical, and the mods are a team of volunteers, not paid workers. The only solution I can really see for ya is either wait to both be in the WA until one of ye moves out, or beg your parent(s) to get you guys some cheapie laptops (assuming you've got a router that can do wifi) so you guys don't have to use a shared computer (or, if one or both of you are working age, save up money from a job to buy yourselves a pair).

[The Blaatschapen]

Most of them are.

Except Farn, she's an immortal

[Outer Sparta]

It's better if the two of you don't use the same computer or IP address if you're both in the WA to avoid any gameside issues. The game doesn't distinguish which country is yours and which country is your brother's.

[Risottia]

Such threads really belong in Moderation. Or in Technical.

[Eastern Tatarstan]

The thing that actually bothers me is that they keep doing it again and again. I tell them once and theyre like "OK, it's alright" but after a while they come back. It's like if I was suspicious of a cryme, got triald, got pronounced innocent and let go and after a few months accused of the same crime, trialed again, let go, accused, trialed, released and so on and so on and so on till the end of times.

I also ended up requesting an appeal, adding the same explanation, as usual but this time it got denied for the first time. I still have the nation in WA though. And how can they be so certain that NOW I'm cheating? How they knew that there was nothing illegal going on in the past each time we both received those notifications but now I'm cheating for real? What made all the difference? I certainly haven't changed my ways regarding NS since 2018 (except I stopped doing issues a year ago and organised a raid recently), so there must be something else involved.

[Ethel mermania]

While I have never met a moderator I would be very surprised if all of them were not human.

As an fyi, The rules very specifically say, dont do what yOu are doing.

[Eastern Tatarstan]

dont do what yOu are doing.

Only when we get NS++ for mobile phones

[Alvecia]

dont do what yOu are doing.

Only when we get NS++ for mobile phones

Well then you've really got no-one to blame but yourselves.

[Ethel mermania]

dont do what yOu are doing.

Only when we get NS++ for mobile phones

We dont speak of those dark times

[Frisbeeteria]

Moved, General Moderation

is this duty handled by a bot instead of actuall people?

We use an automated cheat scanner to verify potential WA multis. It doesn't care how many times you've been warned before. If the conditions that caused you to be warned (sharing a device with your brother) are still there, you'll get a new warning every week.

The Cheat scanner doesn't eject, it just warns. Real live human beings look at the resulting lists and decide if the cheat scanner was correct this time, and they eject when the evidence is clearcut.

I have been contacting the Mods every time I received one, telling them that it's actually two different guys on the same computer.

And as we've told you repeatedly, that's irrelevant. Site rules are such that if one of you doesn't resign, both will be ejected. If your family situation is such that you have to share a computer, only one of you can be a WA member.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

Is it possible to change the IP address based on who is logged in ?

[Flanderlion]

Is it possible to change the IP address based on who is logged in ?

With a lot of effort, but you'll still get flagged for multi-ing, as that's exactly what a cheater would do.

[JELL ALT 2]

I understand the consequences of off topic discussion in moderation but this may be an emergency and this is the most up to date moderation post, there may be an eme4ency in the
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=479283&start=350

[Jebslund]

I understand the consequences of off topic discussion in moderation but this may be an emergency and this is the most up to date moderation post, there may be an eme4ency in the
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=479283&start=350

Then make a report thread.

[JELL ALT 2]

I understand the consequences of off topic discussion in moderation but this may be an emergency and this is the most up to date moderation post, there may be an eme4ency in the
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=479283&start=350

Then make a report thread.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=480083&p=36650156#p36650156

[Kinectia]

Maybe your raiding is triggering the bots. Be prepared to send a calm, honest explanation and most likely the mods will reset you. Keep in mind that joining and resigning the WA frequently with multiple WA members from the same computer (my understanding of something raiders might be doing) is exactly what the bots are designed to catch. It’s probably more common among rule breakers seeking raiding advantages.

There’s no reason for mods to remember or communicate with each other about your case. You do a thing, it triggers a bot that sends you a warning. You send a prompt and polite canned reply and a mod resets your game to normal. Expect it and plan accordingly. There are many play styles available in NS that do not involve WA membership at all - too many to even list here, but you can look around and find them.

[Jebslund]

Then make a report thread.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=480083&p=36650156#p36650156

That thread is all you need to do. If mods are on, they will see it. If not, spamming other threads will not summon them. Either way, spamming other threads is unnecessary.

[Frisbeeteria]

Be prepared to send a calm, honest explanation and most likely the mods will reset you.

Please don't tell other players what the mods will or won't do. You'll almost always be wrong.

[Eastern Tatarstan]

Well, my nation got banned from the WA. Not great, not terrible, it was just a puppet after all. Did this slow me down? Yes. Can this stop me? Not at all, I can still join the WA with a different puppet.
Now I see that the system is the way it is and nothing can be done about it. It's like the imperial system in the USA, it's there, it can cause trouble but you've gotta live with it. For me this all means getting a new puppet into the WA, continue my work with it and never ever, not even by a foolish mistake, lodge into it via the PC.

Thanks for comming. The debate is closed and I'm outta here.
Have a nice day.

[Ethel mermania]

Well, my nation got banned from the WA. Not great, not terrible, it was just a puppet after all. Did this slow me down? Yes. Can this stop me? Not at all, I can still join the WA with a different puppet.
Now I see that the system is the way it is and nothing can be done about it. It's like the imperial system in the USA, it's there, it can cause trouble but you've gotta live with it. For me this all means getting a new puppet into the WA, continue my work with it and never ever, not even by a foolish mistake, lodge into it via the PC.

Thanks for comming. The debate is closed and I'm outta here.
Have a nice day.

Or you could buy a 90 dollar tablet and in game, use that for your WA nation only.

One or the other.