[Discussion] Marking domestic advertisements as recruitment

[Aumeltopia]

Yesterday I sent a regional telegram out to all residents of the South Pacific, inviting them to get involved in our military. (We never have and have no interest in recruiting out-of-region, because it is a purely resident-based regional military, part of the government, not a separate organization.) The telegram did not ask them to move regions or take any in-game action, just provided links to our forum sign-up and discord server. I am a Regional Officer in TSP and hold Communications power, which I used to send the telegram. My telegram was subsequently deleted by moderation and I was sent a warning for not marking the telegram as 'recruitment'. In an appeal, I was told that advertising internally for our military counted as 'recruitment for an organization'.

Although this is a fairly minor individual case, it has much broader consequences.

• Neither I nor anyone I know of have ever marked their internal advertisements as 'recruitment' before or been penalized for not doing so. It is not stated anywhere that regional officers must mark telegrams to their constituents as recruitment. When did this policy change?
• Does this extend to any telegram which invites people to join in a regional activity? I believe TSP's welcome telegram includes a section advertising for new residents to join the military-- are we supposed to mark our welcome telegram as recruitment? What about non-military telegrams (is a domestic telegram from the delegate inviting members to join the Festival Squad 'recruitment for an organization'? What about asking residents to join the forum and become citizens? Are the citizens are an "organization"?)
• If this is considered recruitment, does that mean if I posted the same content (links to the sign-up, etc.) on the RMB they would be considered RMB recruitment? In a UCR, where RMB recruitment is not legal per the OSRS, does this mean no regional officer/founder/delegate can advertise for joining any regional groups on their RMB?

The telegram preferences list "Region (Official)" and "Recruitment" as two separate categories, which cannot be combined. My telegram was marked as "Region (Official)", which can be categorically blocked. Given that the two labels enable equal levels of restriction, what makes an internal telegram about getting involved more fitting for "recruitment" than "official regional affairs"? Wouldn't a nation who blocks recruitment completely (not wanting ads to move elsewhere or join other groups, being happy in their region) but allows all regional telegrams (wanting to know what the news and activities are in their region) want to see a telegram offering them.... an activity in their region?

[Kurnugia]

I second Aumel's concerns. Where is the line between engagement/retention and recruitment of a regional org if it's no longer allowed to do so as before? I mean I could invite people into doing a non-bindery-org tag raid. Would this count towards recruiting?

To me, this ruling is alarming and unnecessary. If someone does not want to engage with the region, he still can block all region-wide telegrams imo and there is too much grey area to exploit afaik.

[Frisbeeteria]

This is not a new ruling. It's been in place since the introduction of telegram checkboxes and telegram filters. Players have the right to block unwanted telegrams, which supersedes your right to make them see them.

We don't investigate every telegram sent (which would be a full-time job for a triple-sized mod team). We only investigate when there are complaints. It's not surprising that many such telegrams go unreported, and you might think this is a new rule. Most players are happy to simply ignore their Inbox or use the delete key. For those who choose to report, the moderators will enforce.

[Tim-Opolis]

To be frank, this is a really moronic ruling from Moderation, that seems to either have fallen into a previously existing problem of rulings made about GP without actually considering the fallout from it.

I'm not sure how Moderators expect Regional Leadership to be able to engage with players if we have to begin marking things as Recruitment. Furthermore, I'm not sure why a nation that either a. already chose to stay in the region or b. was already recruited to the region, has to have regional engagement marked as a Recruitment Telegram for it. It's a Regional Telegram, sent to Residents of the Region, as part of Regional Engagement Efforts. What's next, Moderators will re-classify our other Executive Government branches as Organizations now too? Are we soon going to be unable to promote any Regional Body because it's "recruitment"?

What about pure-military regions, like The Black Hawks or The Order of The Grey Wardens? This shafts them even harder, because they literally are not able to advertise their primary activity to their region anymore, despite the fact that everyone there was already recruited to the region. If people don't want to get telegrams promoting Regional Events, they should be blocking Regionwide Telegrams, not requiring us to mark as recruitment.

This also fails to consider the fact that regions, both GCR and UCR alike, recommend strongly to their recruits to block recruitment telegrams, so they're not further bothered by other regions trying to recruit them with varying qualities of recruitment telegrams. Now we're being told that we have to mark our own Regional Outreach as recruitment if it mention regional bodies such as militaries, something which doesn't mesh well with the fact that we widely recommend players turn Recruitment TGs off.

Finally, this is clearly a ruling that came absolutely out of the blue, and either failed to ignore years of precedent or chose to senselessly throw years of precedent out of the window. At no point in the past have we had to mark any sort of Regional Outreach as Recruitment, and I myself have sent thousands of telegrams both in UCRs and in GCRs promoting my assorted regional military groups. None of those telegrams have ever had to be marked as recruitment, nor should they given that it's regional outreach, to my region's residents, about regional opportunities.

The ramifications of this misguided ruling will end up being an incredible pain to both GCRs and UCRs alike, and I sincerely hope we see it reversed and some sanity restored.

This is not a new ruling. It's been in place since the introduction of telegram checkboxes and telegram filters. Players have the right to block unwanted telegrams, which supersedes your right to make them see them.

Where was it previously mentioned that Regional Outreach TGs promoting Regional Opportunities to Residents of a region have to be marked Recruitment? I would love to see that ruling, because I spent 20 minutes digging and found nothing.

Players do indeed have the right to block regional unwanted telegrams via the "Block" option on Regionwide Telegrams. The issue here is that these Regionwide TGs are now being pointlessly reclassified to "Recruitment"

[Davelands]

To me it sounds like a mis-interpretation of the differences between "Region (Official)" and "Recruitment".
My understanding of Recruitment was as an attempt to get nations to join an EXTERNAL organization.
Because if not then it basically forces us to flag telegrams about Internal government openings and internal orgs as "SPAM" (since most people learn early to turn off Recruitment telegrams because of the volume of Join Us messages when they first start a nation.
And again, as Aumeltopia said, wouldn't a RMB post from me saying something like "Join Internal Affairs. We have openings for good people." be considered Recruitment spam?

I'd like to see this spelled out plainly for us before we all get in trouble for what has previously been routine business.

[Aclion]

I seem to remember that during LWU's stint in Lazarus it was ruled that regional officers did not need to mark official telegrams asking for endorsements on the grounds that you agreed to official communications when you joined the region. Is this a reversal of that decision or does that only ever apply to WA campaigns? Do I need to start marking announcements for my regional events? Will those players be held responsible for for the thousands of unmarked campaign telegrams they sent?

[Overthinkers]

A lot of regions have an offsite-based citizenship system. Does this rule mean that we can't send mass TGs encouraging people to become citizens unless we mark it as recruitment? R/D gameplay is probably most affected by this rule, but there is potential for more problems in other areas now and/or down the road.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

These telegrams are obviously regional telegrams, not recruitment ones.
If these are now 'recruitment' messages, what then counts as regional telegrams?
Are voters a specific organisations? Forum members? Discord members? Those who endorse the delegate?

[Xoriet]

It seems like all internal TGs now have to be marked under a category. Something else that's blocked is talking to your region about why they are opposing a certain GA/SC resolution without marking it as WA Campaign. Wasn't that supposed to be for the author and people campaigning for it? Having internal TGs talking about the region's business - R/D, official regional SC/GA stances, offsite information - seems ridiculous. It's internal regional business, not outside regional recruitment from others. Internal mass TGs shouldn't have to be marked under categories when they're sent by the Delegate and ROs. They already have a category. They don't need to be marked off the way outside TGs should be.

[Salvarity]

What are the rules on sending telegrams?
A telegram that encourages the recipient to move regions is a recruitment telegram, and must be marked by checking the appropriate box before clicking Send. (The checkbox can be exposed by clicking the "▼" beside the "To:" box.)

Recruit: encourage nations to move regions or join an organization

These are the two rules we are given. The second one comes from the drop down menu when you are drafting the telegram, the first comes from the Technical portion of the FAQ, which is reached by clicking the more info button when drafting a telegram. These two statements do not contradict, but the first one directly states that a recruitment telegram is one that encourages the recipient to move regions. Which is exactly what internal recruitment does not want.

I do not see how the current situation is supposed to be an understood rule. Especially when what we are given seems to imply the opposite.

[Vando0sa]

So does this mean when I send region wide telegrams to Iwaku asking nations to join WA and endorse our delegate while not marking them as recruitment I am breaking the law?

eep!

[Wabbitslayah]

It seems like all internal TGs now have to be marked under a category. Something else that's blocked is talking to your region about why they are opposing a certain GA/SC resolution without marking it as WA Campaign. Wasn't that supposed to be for the author and people campaigning for it? Having internal TGs talking about the region's business - R/D, official regional SC/GA stances, offsite information - seems ridiculous. It's internal regional business, not outside regional recruitment from others. Internal mass TGs shouldn't have to be marked under categories when they're sent by the Delegate and ROs. They already have a category. They don't need to be marked off the way outside TGs should be.

Especially when there is already a filter for regional telegrams.



Maybe instead require those to be tagged Regional over other types.

[Kurnugia]

This is not a new ruling. It's been in place since the introduction of telegram checkboxes and telegram filters. Players have the right to block unwanted telegrams, which supersedes your right to make them see them.

Does then the Org, who owns the region have no longer the right to promote their activities? Because that's what I am extracting from it.

In case of TSP, the SPSF is a subsection of TSP that specializes in GP activities. Meaning it is part of the information a region might wanna get out there to promote engagement.

If someone does not want to engage with the region he can block those telegrams. It's that easy.

[Aclion]

It seems like all internal TGs now have to be marked under a category. Something else that's blocked is talking to your region about why they are opposing a certain GA/SC resolution without marking it as WA Campaign. Wasn't that supposed to be for the author and people campaigning for it? Having internal TGs talking about the region's business - R/D, official regional SC/GA stances, offsite information - seems ridiculous. It's internal regional business, not outside regional recruitment from others. Internal mass TGs shouldn't have to be marked under categories when they're sent by the Delegate and ROs. They already have a category. They don't need to be marked off the way outside TGs should be.

Especially when there is already a filter for regional telegrams.



Maybe instead require those to be tagged Regional over other types.

I believe the only way to tag telegrams that way is to send them through the communications interface.

[Xoriet]

I believe the only way to tag telegrams that way is to send them through the communications interface.

Hence why I said "from the Delegate/ROs" who actually use said communications interface.

[Aumeltopia]

Especially when there is already a filter for regional telegrams.

(Image)

Maybe instead require those to be tagged Regional over other types.

I believe the only way to tag telegrams that way is to send them through the communications interface.

I'm pretty sure any telegram sent by a Regional Officer to their region is marked as Region (Official) automatically. At least my SPSF telegram was.

[Wabbitslayah]

I believe the only way to tag telegrams that way is to send them through the communications interface.

I'm pretty sure any telegram sent by a Regional Officer to their region is marked as Region (Official) automatically. At least my SPSF telegram was.

I don't know since I'm Delegate of TRR now. Military stuff has nothing to do with me, but I am afraid to send mass regional telegrams asking people to join the WA and endorse me. I'm not asking them to vote on a GA/SC vote.

[Severisen]

I mean, technically speaking that means as a military Commander, one should mark orders for troops to move as "recruitment," too. What good sense does that even make? It feels here like we are playing by the "kind of sort of yet extremely ambiguous and not oft enforced" letter of the law and not the spirit of the law, especially in this case.

It may be time to revise and discuss the policies and case studies on what is and isn't needed to be marked. As stands, this policy will lead to misunderstandings and warnings, and that's not good for anyone involved. Thank you for your time.

[Kurnugia]

oh and if the moderation is going to insist on this ruling, they should at least have "internal org recruiting telegram"-category. Because it's really two completely different pairs of shoes.

[Wabbitslayah]

oh and if the moderation is going to insist on this ruling, they should at least have "internal org recruiting telegram"-category. Because it's really two completely different pairs of shoes.

It's called Regional, it already exists. The issue with that is, they seem to categorize it as WA or Recruitment, rather than Regional.

So the ideal conclusions are don't require any markings or require it marked Regional.

[Vincent Drake]

FWIW, I don't mind having to mark telegrams. It keeps things organized and allows people to block the types they'd rather not receive, perfectly fine. What's not ok to me is lumping Region(official) TGs in with Recruitment. Like what!?

TGW is primarily a military region. We do offer other activities, but military gameplay is by far the main draw. Our military hierarchy is also the regional government. You cannot separate the region from the military in these kinds of places. How is engagement with the military therefore recruitment? We are the region, we are not a separate org, let alone an external org. People move here because they want to do R/D, but not everyone necessarily understands what it is or how to do it, so they don't all join the military at first. TGs help them get involved and teach them how to do the thing they specifically came here for.

I really don't understand why this needs to be a rule. They should be Region(official) TGs. Still blockable by category, still requiring marking, but properly classified. People block recruitment TGs to avoid external poaching, they don't block them to avoid internal outreach!

[The Serres Republic]

This ruling really worries me, and it looks like I'm not alone in this sentiment. The precedent we currently have draws a clear line between telegrams considered 'Recruitment' and those considered 'Regional (Official).' This ruling completely undercuts the years of precedent that has been established on this site and is frankly just bad enforcement of what can only be described as a somewhat vague site rule. Up until now it has been understood that recruitment for foreign regions and organizations is what falls under recruitment and that is it. I find it nonsensical to think that a region I have already joined would be considered as recruiting me again when advertising a branch of their regional government.

I would understand this ruling if say, a TGW ambassador created a region wide telegram to recruit for TGW within TSP, but that did not happen. While we use the term 'SPSF recruitment telegram.' We are not necessarily 'recruiting' by site definitions and standards. The SPSF is a branch of our Regional Government and Administration and that specific branch is themed as a military organization. Therefor we use terms like 'recruitment' in order to maintain that IC theme. However, regardless of that all this telegram is, as far as site rules should be concerned, is an advertisement for one of our regions administrative branches. This seems to me like our Regional Ministers are being punished for the IC theme of their specific Administrative branches, which is ludicrous. I implore the moderation team to reconsider this ruling and any rulings in the future on this topic by keeping the IC implications of any NS organization in mind.

[Carolus Rex Francae]

So new people can't receive new regional announcements for 28 days after their founding.

Good job, mods. I am certain this will have no consequences on member retention in regions that recruit.

[Shizensky Prime]

My recruitment telegram invites people to my region to be a part of our military, express themselves in our government, or join our fancy organization of "citizens."

I'm not allowed to follow up on any of that when they move in?

[North Prarie]

So new people can't receive new regional announcements for 28 days after their founding.

Good job, mods. I am certain this will have no consequences on member retention in regions that recruit.

That's crap.
If a new nation doesn't want to receive regional announcement TGs, they can filter to block it.
You realize the facts of this case right? Somy didn't recruit outside our region. Merely inside. This is nothing for member retention or regions that recruit.
A regional TG was blocked by the Mods. It was perfectly legal.
Personally, this is a crappy ruling by Moderation and will set not only a double standard but will hurt member retention for in-region agencies.
Power to the GCRs!
EDIT: I was notified by a fellow TSPer that Carolus was being sarcastic. Maybe that's why I had some trouble understanding the purpose of the post
My opinion is still the same, however, but I apologize to Carolus.