NATION

PASSWORD

[Q] Use of Slurs

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.
User avatar
United Islamic Commonwealth
Senator
 
Posts: 4657
Founded: Mar 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

[Q] Use of Slurs

Postby United Islamic Commonwealth » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:36 pm

So, are slurs actionable or no? I've seen several contradictory rulings such as "muzzies" and "nigger" being ruled as allowed, but "khafir" was recently disallowed when it was not being used malevolently. I don't mean to question the mods or post in bad faith, I would just like some clarification on the matter for future reference.
The United Islamic Commonwealth | Islamic republic | Factbook
Population: 135,931,000 | Area: 2,663,077 km² | Location: Middle East
Excidium Planetis Index: Tier 6; Level 0; Level 5 | Current year: 2020
Supreme Leader: Abbas Mosuli
President: Haashid al-Abdulla
Former Nizari Ismaili Muslim living in the US.

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 97097
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Democratic Socialists

Postby Farnhamia » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:11 pm

United Islamic Commonwealth wrote:So, are slurs actionable or no? I've seen several contradictory rulings such as "muzzies" and "nigger" being ruled as allowed, but "khafir" was recently disallowed when it was not being used malevolently. I don't mean to question the mods or post in bad faith, I would just like some clarification on the matter for future reference.

Individual cases are judged individually. We won't rule on hypotheticals and we won't start a list of "This word is okay in this context but in that context we'll be sending black helicopters to your house," either. I know that's not giving you the clarity you seek but it is what it is.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo| In support of Arch

User avatar
Katganistan
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 30754
Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Katganistan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:50 am

United Islamic Commonwealth wrote:So, are slurs actionable or no? I've seen several contradictory rulings such as "muzzies" and "nigger" being ruled as allowed, but "khafir" was recently disallowed when it was not being used malevolently. I don't mean to question the mods or post in bad faith, I would just like some clarification on the matter for future reference.

Can you link to rulings stating 'muzzie' and 'nigger' were allowed? I can't seem to find it in my search.
Incorrigible Punsters
Kat, I am your father!
Why I Should Be One of the New Moderators

Kat: "What crime am I to be charged with?"
Sgt Toomey: "Being off the market and denying the many legions of Katganifans the chance to hope they will be the next to be putty in your Katganihands. Sorry. Just Hammasturbating."

Ahhhhh. look at all the Statesy people....
In the Beginning...
The Skeptic's Elite
Katganistan can!
My Little Nations

Drasnia's description of the Nationstates Experience

Learning English: It's Not Just for Non-Native Speakers
I have a fan club!
The Hivemind... isn't. Your mileage may vary.

User avatar
United Islamic Commonwealth
Senator
 
Posts: 4657
Founded: Mar 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Islamic Commonwealth » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:30 pm

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=398028&hilit=muzzies here's muzzies. Quick search of the moderation forum turned it up,

Too tired to wade through the slimy sea of n-word ones right now, but I could try more tomorrow.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=398028&hilit=muzzies#p30677020 here, Monitor states that the use of a slur is not in and of itself actionable. It's the intention and way it is used.
Last edited by United Islamic Commonwealth on Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The United Islamic Commonwealth | Islamic republic | Factbook
Population: 135,931,000 | Area: 2,663,077 km² | Location: Middle East
Excidium Planetis Index: Tier 6; Level 0; Level 5 | Current year: 2020
Supreme Leader: Abbas Mosuli
President: Haashid al-Abdulla
Former Nizari Ismaili Muslim living in the US.

User avatar
Frisbeeteria
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 23207
Founded: Dec 16, 2003
Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:41 pm

United Islamic Commonwealth wrote:It's the intention and way it is used.

That's true of every moderator ruling. We don't have a list of forbidden words per se, but obvious examples such as slang terms for blacks, Jews, and Muslims (among others) will quickly get noticed. If they are used in a derogatory manner, it's highly likely to be reported and acted upon.

I'm sure it's possible to use virtually any offensive word in a way that disarms its power. George Carlin did it in the 70s with his "words you can't use on TV". Hell, damn, ass, bitch, and bastard have all lost most of their power just in the last few decades. I'm sure the upcoming decades will bring new terms to the forefront. In the meantime, it's going to be a judgement call every time.

User avatar
United Islamic Commonwealth
Senator
 
Posts: 4657
Founded: Mar 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Islamic Commonwealth » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:49 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
United Islamic Commonwealth wrote:It's the intention and way it is used.

That's true of every moderator ruling. We don't have a list of forbidden words per se, but obvious examples such as slang terms for blacks, Jews, and Muslims (among others) will quickly get noticed. If they are used in a derogatory manner, it's highly likely to be reported and acted upon.

I'm sure it's possible to use virtually any offensive word in a way that disarms its power. George Carlin did it in the 70s with his "words you can't use on TV". Hell, damn, ass, bitch, and bastard have all lost most of their power just in the last few decades. I'm sure the upcoming decades will bring new terms to the forefront. In the meantime, it's going to be a judgement call every time.

So, when an anti-Islam region who states their mission is to crush Islam uses the term "muzzies" to refer to us, it is not actionable, but when a Muslim uses the term "khafir" he gets a warning? Would it be better if he had said unbeliever or infidel, despite it being an almost literal translation?
The United Islamic Commonwealth | Islamic republic | Factbook
Population: 135,931,000 | Area: 2,663,077 km² | Location: Middle East
Excidium Planetis Index: Tier 6; Level 0; Level 5 | Current year: 2020
Supreme Leader: Abbas Mosuli
President: Haashid al-Abdulla
Former Nizari Ismaili Muslim living in the US.

User avatar
The Kiyaku
Secretary
 
Posts: 31
Founded: Sep 09, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Kiyaku » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:51 pm

Deus vult
--DISREGARD NS STATS--

We are a galactic empire with a focus on cleansing the galaxy of those unworthy of taking the Great Journey, and who lay their filth all over the artifacts of the Gods.

Ignorant fools.

OOC - In actuality, were basically just a ripoff of the Covenant from Halo. The name is literally "Covenant" put into Japanese Google Translate, because I'm a lazy bastard. I'm also not going to put any political compass crap here, because that stuff is stupid.


Tier Nine civilisation. So...

User avatar
Katganistan
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 30754
Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Katganistan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:57 pm

The Kiyaku wrote:Deus vult

*** Warned for spamming moderation and trolling ***
Last edited by Katganistan on Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Incorrigible Punsters
Kat, I am your father!
Why I Should Be One of the New Moderators

Kat: "What crime am I to be charged with?"
Sgt Toomey: "Being off the market and denying the many legions of Katganifans the chance to hope they will be the next to be putty in your Katganihands. Sorry. Just Hammasturbating."

Ahhhhh. look at all the Statesy people....
In the Beginning...
The Skeptic's Elite
Katganistan can!
My Little Nations

Drasnia's description of the Nationstates Experience

Learning English: It's Not Just for Non-Native Speakers
I have a fan club!
The Hivemind... isn't. Your mileage may vary.

User avatar
USS Monitor
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 26874
Founded: Jul 01, 2015
19th Century Iron Steamship

Postby USS Monitor » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:59 pm

United Islamic Commonwealth wrote:
Frisbeeteria wrote:That's true of every moderator ruling. We don't have a list of forbidden words per se, but obvious examples such as slang terms for blacks, Jews, and Muslims (among others) will quickly get noticed. If they are used in a derogatory manner, it's highly likely to be reported and acted upon.

I'm sure it's possible to use virtually any offensive word in a way that disarms its power. George Carlin did it in the 70s with his "words you can't use on TV". Hell, damn, ass, bitch, and bastard have all lost most of their power just in the last few decades. I'm sure the upcoming decades will bring new terms to the forefront. In the meantime, it's going to be a judgement call every time.

So, when an anti-Islam region who states their mission is to crush Islam uses the term "muzzies" to refer to us, it is not actionable, but when a Muslim uses the term "khafir" he gets a warning? Would it be better if he had said unbeliever or infidel, despite it being an almost literal translation?


It's different contexts -- GP vs. NSG. Posturing for regional politics or R/D purposes gets a little more slack than a purely OOC post in NSG would.
Don't take life so serious... it isn't permanent... RIP Dyakovo and Ashmoria
~~One Stop Rules Shop (OSRS)~~Getting Help (GHR)~~
༄༅། །འགྲོ་བ་མི་རིགས་ག་ར་དབང་ཆ་འདྲ་མཉམ་འབད་སྒྱེཝ་ལས་ག་ར་གིས་གཅིག་གིས་གཅིག་ལུ་སྤུན་ཆའི་དམ་ཚིག་བསྟན་དགོས།

User avatar
United Islamic Commonwealth
Senator
 
Posts: 4657
Founded: Mar 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Islamic Commonwealth » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:53 am

USS Monitor wrote:
United Islamic Commonwealth wrote:So, when an anti-Islam region who states their mission is to crush Islam uses the term "muzzies" to refer to us, it is not actionable, but when a Muslim uses the term "khafir" he gets a warning? Would it be better if he had said unbeliever or infidel, despite it being an almost literal translation?


It's different contexts -- GP vs. NSG. Posturing for regional politics or R/D purposes gets a little more slack than a purely OOC post in NSG would.

Isn't GP purely OOC, though? The description underneath the name pretty clearly says "not a roleplaying forum". So, it is alright if I were to go into GP and begin calling people khafir with malicious intent (as the above example was using muzzie) but if I use it in NSG using its literal meaning, I can get a warning?
The United Islamic Commonwealth | Islamic republic | Factbook
Population: 135,931,000 | Area: 2,663,077 km² | Location: Middle East
Excidium Planetis Index: Tier 6; Level 0; Level 5 | Current year: 2020
Supreme Leader: Abbas Mosuli
President: Haashid al-Abdulla
Former Nizari Ismaili Muslim living in the US.

User avatar
USS Monitor
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 26874
Founded: Jul 01, 2015
19th Century Iron Steamship

Postby USS Monitor » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:24 am

United Islamic Commonwealth wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:
It's different contexts -- GP vs. NSG. Posturing for regional politics or R/D purposes gets a little more slack than a purely OOC post in NSG would.

Isn't GP purely OOC, though?


It often blurs the line between IC and OOC.

So, it is alright if I were to go into GP and begin calling people khafir with malicious intent (as the above example was using muzzie) but if I use it in NSG using its literal meaning, I can get a warning?


I don't recommend it. Did you miss the part where the guy using "muzzies" got an unofficial warning?

viewtopic.php?p=30676772#p30676772
viewtopic.php?p=30680032#p30680032
Don't take life so serious... it isn't permanent... RIP Dyakovo and Ashmoria
~~One Stop Rules Shop (OSRS)~~Getting Help (GHR)~~
༄༅། །འགྲོ་བ་མི་རིགས་ག་ར་དབང་ཆ་འདྲ་མཉམ་འབད་སྒྱེཝ་ལས་ག་ར་གིས་གཅིག་གིས་གཅིག་ལུ་སྤུན་ཆའི་དམ་ཚིག་བསྟན་དགོས།

User avatar
United Islamic Commonwealth
Senator
 
Posts: 4657
Founded: Mar 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Islamic Commonwealth » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:32 am

USS Monitor wrote:
United Islamic Commonwealth wrote:Isn't GP purely OOC, though?


It often blurs the line between IC and OOC.

So, it is alright if I were to go into GP and begin calling people khafir with malicious intent (as the above example was using muzzie) but if I use it in NSG using its literal meaning, I can get a warning?


I don't recommend it. Did you miss the part where the guy using "muzzies" got an unofficial warning?

viewtopic.php?p=30676772#p30676772
viewtopic.php?p=30680032#p30680032

No, I got that. But that's unofficial. Someone using khafir as a regular term no different from a Jew using Gentile or goy gets an official, though?
The United Islamic Commonwealth | Islamic republic | Factbook
Population: 135,931,000 | Area: 2,663,077 km² | Location: Middle East
Excidium Planetis Index: Tier 6; Level 0; Level 5 | Current year: 2020
Supreme Leader: Abbas Mosuli
President: Haashid al-Abdulla
Former Nizari Ismaili Muslim living in the US.

User avatar
Frisbeeteria
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 23207
Founded: Dec 16, 2003
Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:44 am

Unofficial warnings are only given to players with clean records and minor infractions. We then move on to warnings and bans and deletions.

United Islamic Commonwealth, you seem hung up on the specific words too much, and this has devolved into little more than rules-lawyering. Time for a lock.

User avatar
The Archregimancy
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 22759
Founded: Aug 01, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:33 am

I know Fris has locked the thread, but if he'll indulge me for a second...

'Khafir' is not inherently actionable. The past post of mine that often gets quoted in these circumstances specifically allows for the word to be used in debate so long as it's A) being used in the Classical Arabic Koranic sense rather than the colloquial sense, and - and this is crucial - B) the post where the word is used makes it clear (explicitly or by unambiguous implication) that the word is being used in the traditional Koranic sense.

The problem is that the word has come to have two very different meanings in Classical Arabic and colloquial Arabic. Most of our posters won't be familiar with the distinction between Classical and colloquial Arabic, but they are often aware of the word's derogatory meaning in colloquial Arabic. This is why it's absolutely vital to specify the context in which the word is being used.

We're not going to warn people for quoting the Koran in theological debate (for example, the use of 'kuffār' in Sura 4:18 or the frequent use of 'kafir' across Sura 2).

We will consider warning people who use it in the highly derogatory colloquial sense.
Last edited by The Archregimancy on Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Moderation

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jar Wattinree

Advertisement

Remove ads