Advertisement
by Arge Entina » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:05 am
by Nature-Spirits » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:06 am
Imperial Union of America wrote:I think misgendering if you disagree with transsexuality shouldn't necessarily be against the rules as long as it's primary purpose is not to provoke.
Imperial Union of America wrote:I also don't think someone should get in trouble if they use generic terms to describe trans people and don't bother to use a different one.
by Imperial Union of America » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:10 am
by Minzerland II » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:15 am
St Anselm of Canterbury wrote:[…]who ever heard of anything having two mothers or two fathers? (Monologion, pg. 63)
by Imperial Union of America » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:17 am
Nature-Spirits wrote:Imperial Union of America wrote:I think misgendering if you disagree with transsexuality shouldn't necessarily be against the rules as long as it's primary purpose is not to provoke.
But where do you draw the line? It's just not practical. Besides, as has already been said, the "legitimate belief" defence has never been valid on this forum, for any rule.
For instance: Poster A is from Country X. Country Y claims that Country X is part of its own territory, and not a sovereign state. Poster B, from Country Y, insists on referring to Poster A as a Y-ian. Poster A says that they are an X-ian. However, in every subsequent post, without exception, Poster B explicitly refers to Poster A as a Y-ian, even after Poster A specifies that they find this characterisation distressing.
It's not a perfect analogy, since obviously gender is very different from nationality, but I hope you can understand the point I'm trying to make with that comparison. Just because Poster B has a political belief that stipulates that they cannot agree with a personal aspect of Poster A's being, that doesn't excuse Poster B from explicitly and consistently referring to Poster A as something that Poster A finds distressing or offensive.Imperial Union of America wrote:I also don't think someone should get in trouble if they use generic terms to describe trans people and don't bother to use a different one.
By "generic terms", do you mean the singular they? Because I'm pretty sure you wouldn't get warned for that.
by Socialist Tera » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:30 am
by Nature-Spirits » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:37 am
Imperial Union of America wrote:1. Gender is indeed a very personal thing, and i do empathize very strongly with transsexuals on this issue. I think i can understand why the rule was instituted, more trouble than it's worth to them.
2. I use male pronouns generically.
by Neutraligon » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:46 am
by Imperial Union of America » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:48 am
Neutraligon wrote:I see the rule as no different to my telling a poster not to call me kid. Once I have done that with that poster, them then deciding to call me kid clearly is baiting.
by Socialist Tera » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:53 am
Imperial Union of America wrote:Neutraligon wrote:I see the rule as no different to my telling a poster not to call me kid. Once I have done that with that poster, them then deciding to call me kid clearly is baiting.
Being called one gender over the other or having one pronoun used with you over one you would prefer is a different than being called a kid.
Because being called a kid is attributing a negative attribute to you. Being a man as opposed to being a woman or vis versa are not negative traits.
by Imperial Union of America » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:54 am
Socialist Tera wrote:Imperial Union of America wrote:
Being called one gender over the other or having one pronoun used with you over one you would prefer is a different than being called a kid.
Because being called a kid is attributing a negative attribute to you. Being a man as opposed to being a woman or vis versa are not negative traits.
I suppose it depends on the context as well. If there is a picture thread where you post a picture of yourself and a person calls a transgender girl a man, it would be pretty bad, right?
by Socialist Tera » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:55 am
Imperial Union of America wrote:Socialist Tera wrote:I suppose it depends on the context as well. If there is a picture thread where you post a picture of yourself and a person calls a transgender girl a man, it would be pretty bad, right?
Yeah, because you're insulting someones real life appearance, which is different than arguing on the fundamentals of someones transgender status.
by Imperial Union of America » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:58 am
Socialist Tera wrote:Imperial Union of America wrote:
Yeah, because you're insulting someones real life appearance, which is different than arguing on the fundamentals of someones transgender status.
A lot of the time, the mods have been called in for pronoun stuff because someone called transgender people "a delusional guy in a dress" or called a transperson "it".
by Linux and the X » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:05 am
Imperial Union of America wrote:Trolling and flaming pretty much cover 99% of the dickish shit.
by The Blaatschapen » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:10 am
Pandeeria wrote:Reploid Productions wrote:It's pretty simple. If someone tells you they're a girl, use feminine pronouns. If they say they're a guy, use masculine pronouns. The misgendering rule comes into play when someone knowingly insists on using the incorrect pronoun after they've been informed what the correct pronoun is to use, as repeatedly using the wrong pronoun serves no other purpose than to needle the target and make them angry- that is, deliberately calling someone who says they're a girl "he" and vice versa is a form of flamebaiting.
Easiest way to avoid the entire thing? The nongendered, singular "they" when you don't know for sure what to use.
What if they want you to call them one of those really weird, absurd pronouns like zie, ey, ve, tey, sie, etc.
Do we still have to abide, or is the neutral "they" still ok?
by USS Monitor » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:16 am
Imperial Union of America wrote:Socialist Tera wrote:A lot of the time, the mods have been called in for pronoun stuff because someone called transgender people "a delusional guy in a dress" or called a transperson "it".
That's different because he's using a negative adjective(delusional) and because it refers to a human being as an 'it' thus inferring that individual is not even human.
by Imperial Union of America » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:24 am
by Yumyumsuppertime » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:27 am
Imperial Union of America wrote:USS Monitor wrote:
Implying there is something wrong with not being human...
There's nothing wrong with not being human. I myself, being a native of the State of Florida, am actually quite partial to our sublime nautical friends.
But i don't think describing someone as an 'it' is the same as not using a preferred pronoun.
by Dakini » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:43 am
Ethel mermania wrote:Now to be honest I think when someone calls someone else "honey", or "dearie", referring to a male coupled with a put down, that should count as misgendering as well, but I think that is a different topic.
by Sedgistan » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:51 am
Dakini wrote:Also, seriously, use the correct pronouns to describe a person's gender or use "they" if you don't know/remember what their gender is (or, you know, if that's their preferred pronoun). This isn't rocket science, people; it's basic courtesy.
by Sedgistan » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:56 am
Zugambo wrote:On another board that I am a member of (NSFW, so no link), the user's preferred pronoun is listed in their profile. I don't know if the mods could do something similar here...
by Dakini » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:57 am
Sedgistan wrote:Dakini wrote:Also, seriously, use the correct pronouns to describe a person's gender or use "they" if you don't know/remember what their gender is (or, you know, if that's their preferred pronoun). This isn't rocket science, people; it's basic courtesy.
I don't think anyone disagrees with that. The point of disagreement is what the "correct pronouns" are; for many people those are the ones for the gender of your birth/biological gender (however you want to term it) rather than gender(s) you may choose to identify as. We allow people to make that argument on the forum - it's not considered inherently trolling or anything of the sort, yet punish them when they persist in using the pronouns appropriate to that belief.
by Sedgistan » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:04 am
Dakini wrote:I think you mean "sex", not "gender" in many cases up there. There is a difference.
Also, trans people don't "choose to identify (as their gender)" any more than you choose to identify as your gender.
Dakini wrote:And you know, if someone walked into the trans thread and started going on about how transwomen aren't "real" women or something, I'd smack that shit down as trolling if I were a mod because it very clearly is.
by Dakini » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:23 am
Sedgistan wrote:Dakini wrote:I think you mean "sex", not "gender" in many cases up there. There is a difference.
Also, trans people don't "choose to identify (as their gender)" any more than you choose to identify as your gender.
You know what I mean, regardless of whether the terms/phrasing are the ones you would use.
Dakini wrote:And you know, if someone walked into the trans thread and started going on about how transwomen aren't "real" women or something, I'd smack that shit down as trolling if I were a mod because it very clearly is.
Context aside, we allow people to argue that transwomen are men, which is my point - there is an inconsistency between allowing that, and then disallowing the pronouns associated with that belief.
Advertisement
Users browsing this forum: Attempted Socialism, Floppa Lovers, Haymarket Riot, Lysset
Advertisement