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A nationstates tribunal [suggestion]

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.
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Salazarstan
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A nationstates tribunal [suggestion]

Postby Salazarstan » Mon May 02, 2016 7:37 pm

I propose an nationstates tribunal made up of players and one mod or admin, here the defended should at least see whats he/she is being accused of and his/her accuser should be brought forth based on the evidence we the people will decide if this individual is guilty of said crime before handing down whatever punishment that mod wants to give.

note the moderation can't extend the punishment if the offended that chose to stand trial at the tribunal if such acts are discovered a miss trial will be declared.

I want it to be know in nationstates history the mods and admin have all the power and we the userbase are granted little to no freedom except what we are allowed to have, at least this way we are given some power.

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Lockdownn
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Postby Lockdownn » Mon May 02, 2016 8:21 pm

Salazarstan wrote:I propose an nationstates tribunal made up of players and one mod or admin, here the defended should at least see whats he/she is being accused of and his/her accuser should be brought forth based on the evidence we the people will decide if this individual is guilty of said crime before handing down whatever punishment that mod wants to give.

note the moderation can't extend the punishment if the offended that chose to stand trial at the tribunal if such acts are discovered a miss trial will be declared.

I want it to be know in nationstates history the mods and admin have all the power and we the userbase are granted little to no freedom except what we are allowed to have, at least this way we are given some power.

No fucking thanks.

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Bitely
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Postby Bitely » Mon May 02, 2016 9:41 pm

Salazarstan wrote:I propose an nationstates tribunal made up of players and one mod or admin, here the defended should at least see whats he/she is being accused of and his/her accuser should be brought forth based on the evidence we the people will decide if this individual is guilty of said crime before handing down whatever punishment that mod wants to give.

note the moderation can't extend the punishment if the offended that chose to stand trial at the tribunal if such acts are discovered a miss trial will be declared.

I want it to be know in nationstates history the mods and admin have all the power and we the userbase are granted little to no freedom except what we are allowed to have, at least this way we are given some power.

If it was strictly for role playing and not for actual NS moderation I think that it might be interesting.
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Salazarstan
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Postby Salazarstan » Mon May 02, 2016 9:45 pm

Bitely wrote:
Salazarstan wrote:I propose an nationstates tribunal made up of players and one mod or admin, here the defended should at least see whats he/she is being accused of and his/her accuser should be brought forth based on the evidence we the people will decide if this individual is guilty of said crime before handing down whatever punishment that mod wants to give.

note the moderation can't extend the punishment if the offended that chose to stand trial at the tribunal if such acts are discovered a miss trial will be declared.

I want it to be know in nationstates history the mods and admin have all the power and we the userbase are granted little to no freedom except what we are allowed to have, at least this way we are given some power.

If it was strictly for role playing and not for actual NS moderation I think that it might be interesting.
what your suggesting is a kangaroo trial and i don't want that for the userbase.we'll have real preliminary hearings , real judge and jury ran by the people for the people.

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Not a Bang but a Whimper
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Postby Not a Bang but a Whimper » Mon May 02, 2016 9:50 pm

I imagine there is a fair procedure in most cases, for appeals at least, that takes place behind the scenes. It doesn't include "normal" players, but it does include Moderators — who, believe it or not, have a lot in common with the rest of us.
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Salazarstan
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Postby Salazarstan » Mon May 02, 2016 9:58 pm

Not a Bang but a Whimper wrote:I imagine there is a fair procedure in most cases, for appeals at least, that takes place behind the scenes. It doesn't include "normal" players, but it does include Moderators — who, believe it or not, have a lot in common with the rest of us.


Not good enough if this is debate forum then hear out my idea rather then calling it rubbish and moving along, a person must have an chance defend him/her self in trial of her peers, mods or admin are not her peers. the peer group meaning us will decide amongest ourselfs fairly rather then saying."Guilty next." its more fair to hear out the person and decide justice for ourselves rather then having someone saying this is how its going to be.

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Phydios
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Postby Phydios » Mon May 02, 2016 10:50 pm

Salazarstan wrote:
Not a Bang but a Whimper wrote:I imagine there is a fair procedure in most cases, for appeals at least, that takes place behind the scenes. It doesn't include "normal" players, but it does include Moderators — who, believe it or not, have a lot in common with the rest of us.


Not good enough if this is debate forum then hear out my idea rather then calling it rubbish and moving along, a person must have an chance defend him/her self in trial of her peers, mods or admin are not her peers. the peer group meaning us will decide amongest ourselfs fairly rather then saying."Guilty next." its more fair to hear out the person and decide justice for ourselves rather then having someone saying this is how its going to be.

NationStates is run via mod rule, not mob rule. (Sorry, couldn't resist. :p) The mods are not any less our peers than judges/juries/law enforcement officers in real life. They have been appointed by a higher authority (in this case the site owner, Max Barry) to keep order here. I am confident in stating that this will never be a democracy, and that's quite fine - normal, even - for an Internet community. The mods can and do take player feedback when appropriate, but they don't have to. When following Max's orders, they have the right to moderate however they want. We have no rights here except those given by real-life law, and those are for very specific cases if they exist at all. I don't mean that we are denied rights - we don't have them to deny. We came here, clicked some buttons, agreed to some Terms & Conditions, and accepted someone's offer to set us up an account on the servers for their online game. Any purchases made through the NS Store entitled us to nothing but our purchase. This is all how it should be, and if you don't like submitting to authority here, you'll either have to leave or do it anyway.
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Cumberlanda
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Postby Cumberlanda » Mon May 02, 2016 11:04 pm

I, for one, am currently happy with our robot oppressors.
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Lord Ravenclaw
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Postby Lord Ravenclaw » Mon May 02, 2016 11:08 pm

I'm sorry but... this isn't a democracy. Max makes the rules. [Violet] and her team add to those rules when necessary and then enforce those rules.

We do not have any rights on this site, we are guests whose stay is determined by both our conduct and the grace of the Webmasters.
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Jetan
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Postby Jetan » Tue May 03, 2016 6:40 am

Yeah, no. Mod rule is infinitely better than mob rule (even if appeals are granted too rarely). Don't break the rules, don't get in trouble.
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CoraSpia
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Postby CoraSpia » Tue May 03, 2016 8:33 am

It would be lovely, but it'll never happen. Just like I'll never get my wish of seriously cutting (or getting rid of) the mod team.
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The Holy Therns
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Postby The Holy Therns » Tue May 03, 2016 9:54 am

Coraspia wrote:It would be lovely, but it'll never happen. Just like I'll never get my wish of seriously cutting (or getting rid of) the mod team.


Good, because that's a terrible idea.
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The Corparation
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Postby The Corparation » Tue May 03, 2016 10:34 am

Salazarstan wrote:I propose an nationstates tribunal made up of players and one mod or admin, here the defended should at least see whats he/she is being accused of and his/her accuser should be brought forth based on the evidence we the people will decide if this individual is guilty of said crime before handing down whatever punishment that mod wants to give.

note the moderation can't extend the punishment if the offended that chose to stand trial at the tribunal if such acts are discovered a miss trial will be declared.

I want it to be know in nationstates history the mods and admin have all the power and we the userbase are granted little to no freedom except what we are allowed to have, at least this way we are given some power.

You seem to be under the misunderstanding that NS is some sort of democracy and that things like right to a fair trial is a thing here. It isn't this is website is owned and controlled by Max Barry he has decided that he rules this site through an iron fist with the mods as his personal police force. The fact we have an open moderation forum at all is very unusual for a web community of this size. The mods don't have to be open about jack shit and Max can institutie any rule he pleases on the site without any obligation to tell us such rules. He could decide to permaban all players whose usernames start with s and not tell anyone why. as I said there is no right to a fair trial there is noGrredom or Information act or freedom of speech on NS.

As it is the status quo with a open moderation forum, the ability to appeal and the mods announcing major actions such as we saw this past month are as good as we'll get. There have been people banned for the same actions that set forth the recent mass bans without a word from the mods and anyone that knew and talked was warned and the offending post scrubbed.
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The Alexanderians
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Postby The Alexanderians » Tue May 03, 2016 12:14 pm

A tribunal is even worse than the current situation. A mod team is necessary any forum site needs them. The mod team merely needs to listen to player feed back more and improve faults in the system where they exist.
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The Alexanderians
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Postby The Alexanderians » Tue May 03, 2016 12:14 pm

The Holy Therns wrote:
Coraspia wrote:It would be lovely, but it'll never happen. Just like I'll never get my wish of seriously cutting (or getting rid of) the mod team.


Good, because that's a terrible idea.

What getting rid of mods altogether or just the current ones.
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Major-Tom wrote:Why am I full of apathy?

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CoraSpia
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Postby CoraSpia » Tue May 03, 2016 12:20 pm

The Alexanderians wrote:
The Holy Therns wrote:
Good, because that's a terrible idea.

What getting rid of mods altogether or just the current ones.

Just the current ones. I think we probably need mods (unfortunately), but the current batch don't seem to give a crap what players think.
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Twilight Imperium
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Postby Twilight Imperium » Tue May 03, 2016 12:30 pm

Yup! Long live the mods!

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Idzequitch
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Postby Idzequitch » Tue May 03, 2016 12:32 pm

Coraspia wrote:
The Alexanderians wrote:What getting rid of mods altogether or just the current ones.

Just the current ones. I think we probably need mods (unfortunately), but the current batch don't seem to give a crap what players think.

There's only a certain extent to which they should. In the end, it's Max's site, and he gets to choose the rules and how they're enforced. It's great when they listen to player feedback and implement it, but this isn't a democracy, and we don't get to choose how the rules are enforced.
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Charellia
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Postby Charellia » Tue May 03, 2016 12:34 pm

Coraspia wrote:
The Alexanderians wrote:What getting rid of mods altogether or just the current ones.

Just the current ones. I think we probably need mods (unfortunately), but the current batch don't seem to give a crap what players think.

Well why should they? Mods are here to enforce the site rules, not appease the players.

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Shazbotdom
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Postby Shazbotdom » Tue May 03, 2016 12:36 pm

Out of the thousands of decisions that they make a month in regards to rules, I think they do a damn good job. One or two bad decisions (from some people's view) doesn't negate the fact that they are only volunteers. You want professionalism? This is not really the place for super professional moderators (no offence, ladies and gents). Even web sites where you think they would be professional (ibm, phpbb, etc) are not all that professional.

So, a Tribunal made up of regular players? I think fucking not.
Get rid of the mods and replace them? Nah.
Get more mods? Possibly.

But as I stated. Volunteers. If you want better, you'll be hard pressed to get it.
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Idzequitch
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Postby Idzequitch » Tue May 03, 2016 12:38 pm

Shazbotdom wrote:So, a Tribunal made up of regular players? I think fucking not.

I'd leave in a heartbeat if they actually did that for some reason.
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Shazbotdom
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Postby Shazbotdom » Tue May 03, 2016 12:40 pm

Idzequitch wrote:
Shazbotdom wrote:So, a Tribunal made up of regular players? I think fucking not.

I'd leave in a heartbeat if they actually did that for some reason.

I'd quit the forums, but still answer the issues, etc.
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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Tue May 03, 2016 12:52 pm

A tribunal would probably DEAT anyone who doesn't support Trump or Sanders, so no thank you.
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Unnamedland
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Postby Unnamedland » Tue May 03, 2016 1:35 pm

Cumberlanda wrote:I, for one, am currently happy with our robot oppressors.



Agreed.
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Thoricia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Thoricia » Tue May 03, 2016 2:16 pm

Salazarstan wrote:I propose an nationstates tribunal made up of players and one mod or admin, here the defended should at least see whats he/she is being accused of and his/her accuser should be brought forth based on the evidence we the people will decide if this individual is guilty of said crime before handing down whatever punishment that mod wants to give.

note the moderation can't extend the punishment if the offended that chose to stand trial at the tribunal if such acts are discovered a miss trial will be declared.

I want it to be know in nationstates history the mods and admin have all the power and we the userbase are granted little to no freedom except what we are allowed to have, at least this way we are given some power.

Honestly the nationstates mods are some of the nicer ones I've met on most internet forums I've frequented so I don't really see the point in having a tribunal of players that could have a bias against other players because that would just turn into a shit show rather quick
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