by Krajistov SFR » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:53 pm
by Farnhamia » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:28 am
by Krajistov SFR » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:40 pm
by Rhyfelnydd » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:59 pm
Krajistov SFR wrote:http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=239695
New Grestin wrote:Welcome to Nationstates Summer.
You can log out anytime you like, but you can never leave.
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
by Reploid Productions » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:08 pm
Krajistov SFR wrote:http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=239695
[violet] wrote:Maybe we could power our new search engine from the sexual tension between you two.
by Farnhamia » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:25 pm
Reploid Productions wrote:Krajistov SFR wrote:http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=239695
That is not in a flag. The swastika (and related) ruling applies to flags/nation banners, not to forumside roleplay content, which can be argued/opposed.
While I wouldn't necessarily echo Farn's blanket "No, don't use it." I will note that images that have been co-opted as swastika-dodges by neo-Nazi type groups are more likely to be judged unfavorably as malicious in most contexts, and I'm not seeing sufficient context from your nation page to indicate that it's not just a swastika dodge.
by Reploid Productions » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:46 pm
Farnhamia wrote:Reploid Productions wrote:That is not in a flag. The swastika (and related) ruling applies to flags/nation banners, not to forumside roleplay content, which can be argued/opposed.
While I wouldn't necessarily echo Farn's blanket "No, don't use it." I will note that images that have been co-opted as swastika-dodges by neo-Nazi type groups are more likely to be judged unfavorably as malicious in most contexts, and I'm not seeing sufficient context from your nation page to indicate that it's not just a swastika dodge.
I did mean "No, don't use it as your national flag."
[violet] wrote:Maybe we could power our new search engine from the sexual tension between you two.
by -The Unified Earth Governments- » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:22 pm
News - 10/27/2558: Deglassing of Reach is going smoother than expected. | First prototype laser rifle is beginning experimentation. | The Sangheili Civil War is officially over, Arbiter Thel'Vadam and his Swords of Sanghelios have successfully eliminated remaining Covenant cells on Sanghelios. | President Ruth Charet to hold press meeting within the hour on the end of the Sangheili Civil War. | The Citadel Council official introduces the Unggoy as a member of the Citadel.
by Farnhamia » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:57 pm
-The Unified Earth Governments- wrote:Isn't these type of flags banned because of a few countries or something and their laws?
by Ikania » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:04 pm
by Whovian Tardisia » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:27 am
by Luna Amore » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:40 am
Whovian Tardisia wrote:I'd love to see that pony swastika because it would be so damn funny. Where can I find it?
by Krajistov SFR » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:45 pm
Ikania wrote:In the same manner as the Kolovrat, the Celtic cross has also been appropriated by Neo-Nazis and white supremacists for their cause, but I don't believe they're banned on-site for their usage in Celtic revival, history and such. As well, we see lots of [insert plural form of fasces] on flags, because they are used not only as a fascist symbol but a republican symbol. I think only the swastika and other symbols heavily associated with Nazism should be banned. The Kolovrat and Wolfsangel check out IMO, but that's the mod's choice, I'm just here to point out other symbols that are typically allowed.
by The Wolven League » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:15 pm
Krajistov SFR wrote:Ikania wrote:In the same manner as the Kolovrat, the Celtic cross has also been appropriated by Neo-Nazis and white supremacists for their cause, but I don't believe they're banned on-site for their usage in Celtic revival, history and such. As well, we see lots of [insert plural form of fasces] on flags, because they are used not only as a fascist symbol but a republican symbol. I think only the swastika and other symbols heavily associated with Nazism should be banned. The Kolovrat and Wolfsangel check out IMO, but that's the mod's choice, I'm just here to point out other symbols that are typically allowed.
Alot of NS Neo-Nazis use the Fasces, but then again Fascism generally doesn't bring up the holocaust image in people's heads like Nazism and it's associated symbols does I guess?
I see a lot of Soviet, North Korean, as well as ISIL and Al-Qaeda imagery being used also, now here is an intresting question can I post this image in a factbook? or is it only for role-plays?
by Santaclausisgodistan » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:18 pm
by Gregoryisgodistan » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:21 pm
by Farnhamia » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:25 pm
Santaclausisgodistan wrote:Farnhamia wrote:Something like that.
I don't think that's the reason.... First of all, they're legal in the country where NationStates servers are located, so it really shouldn't be a legal issue. Second, I'm guessing the State flag of Virginia violates indecency laws in Saudi Arabia (and possibly other fundamentalist theocratic dictatorships) due to Lady Justice's exposed breast (even CD's with photos of female pop singers in risque but nevertheless non-breast-exposing outfits require the chest to be sharpied over in Saudi Arabia) but we've already established that's not banned. And AFAIK, we don't ban flags that depict the prophet Mohammed even though those are illegal in a lot of Muslim countries. Hell, my own flag (from my main nation, Gregoryisgodistan) could be considered blasphemey and get me thrown in jail in certain countries.
by Gregoryisgodistan » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:44 pm
Farnhamia wrote:Santaclausisgodistan wrote:
I don't think that's the reason.... First of all, they're legal in the country where NationStates servers are located, so it really shouldn't be a legal issue. Second, I'm guessing the State flag of Virginia violates indecency laws in Saudi Arabia (and possibly other fundamentalist theocratic dictatorships) due to Lady Justice's exposed breast (even CD's with photos of female pop singers in risque but nevertheless non-breast-exposing outfits require the chest to be sharpied over in Saudi Arabia) but we've already established that's not banned. And AFAIK, we don't ban flags that depict the prophet Mohammed even though those are illegal in a lot of Muslim countries. Hell, my own flag (from my main nation, Gregoryisgodistan) could be considered blasphemey and get me thrown in jail in certain countries.
I doubt we have many users, if any, from Saudi Arabia. This site is probably not accessible from there. It is accessible from Germany and other European countries where Nazi, Neo-Nazi and fascist symbolism is against the law, and we'd like to be able to offer our wonderful game and forums to people from those countries.
by The Wolven League » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:48 pm
Gregoryisgodistan wrote:Farnhamia wrote:I doubt we have many users, if any, from Saudi Arabia. This site is probably not accessible from there. It is accessible from Germany and other European countries where Nazi, Neo-Nazi and fascist symbolism is against the law, and we'd like to be able to offer our wonderful game and forums to people from those countries.
IIRC, Arch used the site from Saudi Arabia a few months ago while on an archaeological dig there.
by Gregoryisgodistan » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:04 pm
by Luna Amore » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:10 pm
by New Babylonia » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:56 pm
The Wolven League wrote:Krajistov SFR wrote:
Alot of NS Neo-Nazis use the Fasces, but then again Fascism generally doesn't bring up the holocaust image in people's heads like Nazism and it's associated symbols does I guess?
I see a lot of Soviet, North Korean, as well as ISIL and Al-Qaeda imagery being used also, now here is an intresting question can I post this image in a factbook? or is it only for role-plays?
I have not seen anyone with "ISIL" or "al-Qaeda" flags. The people you are likely accusing simply have the "motto" of Islam on their flag, the Shadada.
As for the Soviets, the hammer and sickle does not mean Soviets- it means communism, even if the Soviets made it. Even if people think Hitler was as bad as Stalin (vice/versa), the hammer and sickle represents communism, not the people who led communist nations.
North Korea has not committed mass genoicde like the Nazis; there would be no reason to ban them just because their ideaology was extreme, since they have not really done anything horrific on a massive scale, unlike events like the Holocaust.
by Luna Amore » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:11 pm
New Babylonia wrote:By that logic, the Swastika shouldn't be banned because the original symbol actually signifies peace and harmony. Yet, like the Hammer and Sickle, it is associated with mass genocide, as people who did just that used the symbol to represents themselves.
Your argument kind of falls apart at that.
[violet] wrote:A common question is why we don't ban nations that mimic the Soviet Union, or the USA, or some other real-life nation/entity with a violent history. Certainly, you can total up the body count of various real-world countries and arrive at awful totals: the Soviet Union under Stalin, for example. The question we ask is whether a mini-Soviet Union nation appears to celebrate violence against RL people. And the answer is probably no: assuming no specific references to the contrary, most people wouldn't make that association, because the Soviet Union is widely known for much more than butchery.
We judge nation pages in isolation, since the typical viewer is not going to hunt down forum posts or regional activity for clarifying context. So while parody nations are fine, that needs to be reasonably obvious from the nation page alone.
In summary, there's only a problem if we think a reasonable person looking at a nation page will think it's endorsing violence against real-life people. We are not crazy-strict about this. We are fairly sensitive to satire and humor. But when a nation appears to be simply rocking out to how cool it was for real-life country X to kill a bunch of people, we will delete that nation.
by Constantinopolis » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:56 pm
New Babylonia wrote:By that logic, the Swastika shouldn't be banned because the original symbol actually signifies peace and harmony. Yet, like the Hammer and Sickle, it is associated with mass genocide, as people who did just that used the symbol to represents themselves.
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