Brining up of past offences/Bullying (discussion)

[Rifty]

Repost of my comments towards to bringing up of another players past offences~

"Can you guys seriously stop posting peoples last records on here? It really just make a you a target when you get in disputes for people to quote it and call you a rule breaker. I know whenever you guys post about my "past record" or how I'm on thin ice; I can't help but feel like you guys are attacking me personally and it really isn't a good feeling since one slip up speaking to you guys about it and the thread is locked or I am deleted yet again.

I think it's a fairly reasonable request to have you guys not make mine or anyone else's past matters public knowledge and up for discussion.

When a police office handcuffs you - he doesn't announce how you got done for drink driving two years ago and you have served 2 years in prison for assault.

I have no idea how much more civil I can be about it - but I'm sure a lot of other people feel the same way and are just too fearful of deletion to voice it.

So can you moderators refrain from doing it in the future? Because it really is bullying and singling people out...the exact thing you call people out on constantly"

[DWAsnia]

Needs to be Moderation.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Moved to moderation

[Vladisvok Destino]

So can you moderators refrain from doing it in the future? Because it really is bullying and singling people out...the exact thing you call people out on constantly"

Maybe I'm missing something, but how is the mods trying to give a reminder that you should be careful about rule breaking "bullying"? Especially when the simple answer is "well if you stopped breaking the rules the mods would stop having to make these posts".

Seems like the problem is with the players rather than the staff.

[Ethel mermania]

i would say the opposite, a record of deats and dos'es would br useful to the general player. the player would know who they are dealing with, and aid transparency in evaluationg moderator decisions.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

So can you moderators refrain from doing it in the future? Because it really is bullying and singling people out...the exact thing you call people out on constantly"

Maybe I'm missing something, but how is the mods trying to give a reminder that you should be careful about rule breaking "bullying"? Especially when the simple answer is "well if you stopped breaking the rules the mods would stop having to make these posts".

Seems like the problem is with the players rather than the staff.

I second this.

[RiderSyl]

If the player doesn't want their past offenses to be known, there's a simple solution; Don't have any past offenses.

In the thread where this 'controversy' was/is originally being discussed, the mod in question only said the player was "on thin ice". It's not as if the mod listed the player's past offenses for all to see.

Also, if that's considered 'bullying', then we are really lowering the standards on what can be considered bullying.

[Rifty]

I'm not saying rule breaking should be allowed - go ape shit on the. I'm just saying when you get a warning for something and the mods point out you are on thin ice in the public eye it is embarrassing for the individual. Isn't fair to the person. I think it's a rather reasonable request to not have your past offences something for everyone to know.

[Rifty]

I also had no idea where I posted this - ussualy get where I put it right. Was like 2am for me and I hadn't slept the night before xD

[Euroslavia]

I'm not saying rule breaking should be allowed - go ape shit on the. I'm just saying when you get a warning for something and the mods point out you are on thin ice in the public eye it is embarrassing for the individual. Isn't fair to the person. I think it's a rather reasonable request to not have your past offences something for everyone to know.

That's the point. You (Not saying you specifically, just using this as an example) have broken rules multiples times and continue to so. It's your responsibility to stay in line with the rules, and saying "You're on thin ice" isn't any more embarrassment than actually breaking the rules themselves. At the point where it becomes "You're on thin ice", it's been made clear that past attempts at correcting behavior have failed. Personally, I don't like to use that phrase, I prefer statements along the lines of "You've built up quite the history of offenses, I'd strongly suggest you correct your behavior to prevent further escalation" or some variant.

[Rifty]

I'm not saying rule breaking should be allowed - go ape shit on the. I'm just saying when you get a warning for something and the mods point out you are on thin ice in the public eye it is embarrassing for the individual. Isn't fair to the person. I think it's a rather reasonable request to not have your past offences something for everyone to know.

That's the point. You (Not saying you specifically, just using this as an example) have broken rules multiples times and continue to so. It's your responsibility to stay in line with the rules, and saying "You're on thin ice" isn't any more embarrassment than actually breaking the rules themselves. At the point where it becomes "You're on thin ice", it's been made clear that past attempts at correcting behavior have failed. Personally, I don't like to use that phrase, I prefer statements along the lines of "You've built up quite the history of offenses, I'd strongly suggest you correct your behavior to prevent further escalation" or some variant.

I don't think you moderators really know how it feels to have it drilled into you with all your peers watching that you are on thin ice. It's embarresing and targeting an individual. That's not to say that there past shouldn't be brought into it but kept between you moderators and he individual. I'm asking for no variant...I'm asking that you all refrain from the behaviour all together. Drill into them what there offence is....shoot them a TG about how they're on thin ice. I've gotten telegrams before where I should knock something off...

Being honest I know for myself if I was told over telegram to knock it off I would be in a lot of a better mood and a ton more willing to consider it rather than sit there being angry that you made me seem like a real asshole by bringing that up.

Leningrad and myself had a skype call for about an hour about how we don't care what they say to us over telegrams or how they bring It into the matter...just not make it public knowledge that we are on the way out.

I really am asking also for myself - I know how personally it makes you so embarrassed and angry at that person. Driving a larger wedge between moderators and players; especially those who they need to deal with most often...

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Only, no one is listing all your offenses for all the public to see with a statement like that. It's simply a notification that continued actions - forumside, they tend to be rather visible, what with the bright *** Warning *** text - are going to net you some unpleasant results.

Very few people get to that point. It isn't something that's a habit. So if you have gotten to that point, as Euro said - it would appear that other warnings, bans, admonishments, have not gotten through. Or the behavior would have ceased.

If a moderator - or other player even - were listing all your offenses in public, that would be a problem.

If other players are harassing you, report them.

If your reputation and actions on site have deprived you of willing participants, partners, etc. Those who make a poor showing can often develop a reputation that others choose to distance themselves from. That is on you, not the other players, and not the site moderators. No one can be forced to interact with any other player.

Again, 'you' here used as the general - not 'you in particular'.

[Dyakovo]

That's the point. You (Not saying you specifically, just using this as an example) have broken rules multiples times and continue to so. It's your responsibility to stay in line with the rules, and saying "You're on thin ice" isn't any more embarrassment than actually breaking the rules themselves. At the point where it becomes "You're on thin ice", it's been made clear that past attempts at correcting behavior have failed. Personally, I don't like to use that phrase, I prefer statements along the lines of "You've built up quite the history of offenses, I'd strongly suggest you correct your behavior to prevent further escalation" or some variant.

I don't think you moderators really know how it feels to have it drilled into you with all your peers watching that you are on thin ice. It's embarresing and targeting an individual. That's not to say that there past shouldn't be brought into it but kept between you moderators and he individual. I'm asking for no variant...I'm asking that you all refrain from the behaviour all together. Drill into them what there offence is....shoot them a TG about how they're on thin ice. I've gotten telegrams before where I should knock something off...

Being honest I know for myself if I was told over telegram to knock it off I would be in a lot of a better mood and a ton more willing to consider it rather than sit there being angry that you made me seem like a real asshole by bringing that up.

Leningrad and myself had a skype call for about an hour about how we don't care what they say to us over telegrams or how they bring It into the matter...just not make it public knowledge that we are on the way out.

I really am asking also for myself - I know how personally it makes you so embarrassed and angry at that person. Driving a larger wedge between moderators and players; especially those who they need to deal with most often...

If you find being told that you are "on thin ice" or some other variation of that admonishment, maybe you should familiarize yourself with the rules and thus stop breaking them? This would eliminate the problem.

One Stop Rules Shop.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

That's the point. You (Not saying you specifically, just using this as an example) have broken rules multiples times and continue to so. It's your responsibility to stay in line with the rules, and saying "You're on thin ice" isn't any more embarrassment than actually breaking the rules themselves. At the point where it becomes "You're on thin ice", it's been made clear that past attempts at correcting behavior have failed. Personally, I don't like to use that phrase, I prefer statements along the lines of "You've built up quite the history of offenses, I'd strongly suggest you correct your behavior to prevent further escalation" or some variant.

I don't think you moderators really know how it feels to have it drilled into you with all your peers watching that you are on thin ice. It's embarresing and targeting an individual. That's not to say that there past shouldn't be brought into it but kept between you moderators and he individual. I'm asking for no variant...I'm asking that you all refrain from the behaviour all together. Drill into them what there offence is....shoot them a TG about how they're on thin ice. I've gotten telegrams before where I should knock something off...

Being honest I know for myself if I was told over telegram to knock it off I would be in a lot of a better mood and a ton more willing to consider it rather than sit there being angry that you made me seem like a real asshole by bringing that up.

Leningrad and myself had a skype call for about an hour about how we don't care what they say to us over telegrams or how they bring It into the matter...just not make it public knowledge that we are on the way out.

I really am asking also for myself - I know how personally it makes you so embarrassed and angry at that person. Driving a larger wedge between moderators and players; especially those who they need to deal with most often...

As I understand, the public statement serves a three: first, it does a service to you. The mods don't want to punish you, so if they see you heading down the path to red text in a way you have before then they'll let you know. Second, it makes the player accountable. If a mod TGs you that you're on thin ice for something small and then later warns you in-thread for a pattern of small things, it seems to other players that you got warned over a single small thing, leading to calls of "mod abuse" and "the mods are fascists". With the public announcement before the warn, it shows that you were told to watch yourself and ignored that instruction before being warned. Third and finally, it's much more effort on the part of the mods to make every "thin ice statement" into a TG rather than rolling them into a post they're already making.
Edit: You, of course, being a general you.

[Rifty]

Only, no one is listing all your offenses for all the public to see with a statement like that. It's simply a notification that continued actions - forumside, they tend to be rather visible, what with the bright *** Warning *** text - are going to net you some unpleasant results.

Very few people get to that point. It isn't something that's a habit. So if you have gotten to that point, as Euro said - it would appear that other warnings, bans, admonishments, have not gotten through. Or the behavior would have ceased.

If a moderator - or other player even - were listing all your offenses in public, that would be a problem.

If other players are harassing you, report them.

If your reputation and actions on site have deprived you of willing participants, partners, etc. Those who make a poor showing can often develop a reputation that others choose to distance themselves from. That is on you, not the other players, and not the site moderators. No one can be forced to interact with any other player.

Again, 'you' here used as the general - not 'you in particular'.

The warning text is fine...it's the last offences what I'm saying. I'm asking that you don't do this particular thing...at-least not publicly. I'm not saying it's being done deliberately to upset the reader; I know it comes with the intention of having them behave. However I find myself if anything it makes me irritated....and than irrational in my reply...

[Dyakovo]

Only, no one is listing all your offenses for all the public to see with a statement like that. It's simply a notification that continued actions - forumside, they tend to be rather visible, what with the bright *** Warning *** text - are going to net you some unpleasant results.

Very few people get to that point. It isn't something that's a habit. So if you have gotten to that point, as Euro said - it would appear that other warnings, bans, admonishments, have not gotten through. Or the behavior would have ceased.

If a moderator - or other player even - were listing all your offenses in public, that would be a problem.

If other players are harassing you, report them.

If your reputation and actions on site have deprived you of willing participants, partners, etc. Those who make a poor showing can often develop a reputation that others choose to distance themselves from. That is on you, not the other players, and not the site moderators. No one can be forced to interact with any other player.

Again, 'you' here used as the general - not 'you in particular'.

The warning text is fine...it's the last offences what I'm saying. I'm asking that you don't do this particular thing...at-least not publicly. I'm not saying it's being done deliberately to upset the reader; I know it comes with the intention of having them behave. However I find myself if anything it makes me irritated....and than irrational in my reply...

That would be a problem that you need to get over.

[Scomagia]

I don't see the issue. Reminding you that you're treading on shaky ground isn't bullying, it's actually kind of polite. Doing it publicly isn't bad, either, because it gives other posters an idea of your posting history. If someone is warned and then told that, with their history of trolling, they're heading for deletion, that lets me know that said poster is a troll and to ignore them. It's a non-issue.

[Rifty]

The warning text is fine...it's the last offences what I'm saying. I'm asking that you don't do this particular thing...at-least not publicly. I'm not saying it's being done deliberately to upset the reader; I know it comes with the intention of having them behave. However I find myself if anything it makes me irritated....and than irrational in my reply...

That would be a problem that you need to get over.

Well look at me using the hierarchy of hazard control and aiming for the best outcome through removal of an issue..

I don't see the issue. Reminding you that you're treading on shaky ground isn't bullying, it's actually kind of polite. Doing it publicly isn't bad, either, because it gives other posters an idea of your posting history. If someone is warned and then told that, with their history of trolling, they're heading for deletion, that lets me know that said poster is a troll and to ignore them. It's a non-issue.

It's public humiliation....it is an issue. Ever had it occur where they've told you that you are on thin ice?

[Ethel mermania]

Only, no one is listing all your offenses for all the public to see with a statement like that. It's simply a notification that continued actions - forumside, they tend to be rather visible, what with the bright *** Warning *** text - are going to net you some unpleasant results.

Very few people get to that point. It isn't something that's a habit. So if you have gotten to that point, as Euro said - it would appear that other warnings, bans, admonishments, have not gotten through. Or the behavior would have ceased.

If a moderator - or other player even - were listing all your offenses in public, that would be a problem.

If other players are harassing you, report them.

If your reputation and actions on site have deprived you of willing participants, partners, etc. Those who make a poor showing can often develop a reputation that others choose to distance themselves from. That is on you, not the other players, and not the site moderators. No one can be forced to interact with any other player.

Again, 'you' here used as the general - not 'you in particular'.

The warning text is fine...it's the last offences what I'm saying. I'm asking that you don't do this particular thing...at-least not publicly. I'm not saying it's being done deliberately to upset the reader; I know it comes with the intention of having them behave. However I find myself if anything it makes me irritated....and than irrational in my reply...

thats on the player to grow up, not on moderation.

the community has a right to know what they are dealing with. other sites list moderation/admin actions in one handy thread so it can be easily checked in one place.

[Scomagia]

That would be a problem that you need to get over.

Well look at me using the hierarchy of hazard control and aiming for the best outcome through removal of an issue..

I don't see the issue. Reminding you that you're treading on shaky ground isn't bullying, it's actually kind of polite. Doing it publicly isn't bad, either, because it gives other posters an idea of your posting history. If someone is warned and then told that, with their history of trolling, they're heading for deletion, that lets me know that said poster is a troll and to ignore them. It's a non-issue.

It's public humiliation....it is an issue. Ever had it occur where they've told you that you are on thin ice?

It isn't public humiliation, it's a reminder. It's no more public humiliation than a warning itself. As to your question, no. That has never happened to me. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever been officially warned. But that's what comes of following the rules.

[Ethel mermania]

That would be a problem that you need to get over.

Well look at me using the hierarchy of hazard control and aiming for the best outcome through removal of an issue..

I don't see the issue. Reminding you that you're treading on shaky ground isn't bullying, it's actually kind of polite. Doing it publicly isn't bad, either, because it gives other posters an idea of your posting history. If someone is warned and then told that, with their history of trolling, they're heading for deletion, that lets me know that said poster is a troll and to ignore them. It's a non-issue.

It's public humiliation....it is an issue. Ever had it occur where they've told you that you are on thin ice?

yes, and the thoughtful person tries to figure out why it was said and how to adjust their behaviour, and does not throw a temper tantrum over it

[Rifty]

Well look at me using the hierarchy of hazard control and aiming for the best outcome through removal of an issue..


It's public humiliation....it is an issue. Ever had it occur where they've told you that you are on thin ice?

It isn't public humiliation, it's a reminder. It's no more public humiliation than a warning itself. As to your question, no. That has never happened to me. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever been officially warned. But that's what comes of following the rules.

Exactly - you have not been in the position so you can't completely put yourself in said position. It is public humiliation and it feels the exact same way as if someone stood ins. Group and started yelling your your secrets. No person is proud of their rule breakages and they would much rather they be kept private. Sure at the crime scene give the warning...but not this.

Well look at me using the hierarchy of hazard control and aiming for the best outcome through removal of an issue..


It's public humiliation....it is an issue. Ever had it occur where they've told you that you are on thin ice?

yes, and the thoughtful person tries to figure out why it was said and how to adjust their behaviour, and does not throw a temper tantrum over it

Annnnnd people do that. Not throwing a temper tantrum at all...making a rational point about the added stuff of past offences; not the warnings.

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

It isn't public humiliation, it's a reminder. It's no more public humiliation than a warning itself. As to your question, no. That has never happened to me. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever been officially warned. But that's what comes of following the rules.

Exactly - you have not been in the position so you can't completely put yourself in said position. It is public humiliation and it feels the exact same way as if someone stood ins. Group and started yelling your your secrets. No person is proud of their rule breakages and they would much rather they be kept private. Sure at the crime scene give the warning...but not this.

yes, and the thoughtful person tries to figure out why it was said and how to adjust their behaviour, and does not throw a temper tantrum over it

Annnnnd people do that. Not throwing a temper tantrum at all...making a rational point about the added stuff of past offences; not the warnings.

Not everyone is embarrassed but don't feel proud of it. If they need to remind you, there's no reason why they have to tell you in private. That way, people know why you were deleted looking back at your record, but nonetheless should use better wording than just skating on thin ice. It sound as if as you will drop through soon, and not eventually, which is sometimes right, and sometimes not. Like Euroslavia said:

That's the point. You (Not saying you specifically, just using this as an example) have broken rules multiples times and continue to so. It's your responsibility to stay in line with the rules, and saying "You're on thin ice" isn't any more embarrassment than actually breaking the rules themselves. At the point where it becomes "You're on thin ice", it's been made clear that past attempts at correcting behavior have failed. Personally, I don't like to use that phrase, I prefer statements along the lines of "You've built up quite the history of offenses, I'd strongly suggest you correct your behavior to prevent further escalation"

The last part would be more correct, but either way, the administrators and moderators have to find a way to inform you.

[Scomagia]

It isn't public humiliation, it's a reminder. It's no more public humiliation than a warning itself. As to your question, no. That has never happened to me. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever been officially warned. But that's what comes of following the rules.

Exactly - you have not been in the position so you can't completely put yourself in said position. It is public humiliation and it feels the exact same way as if someone stood ins. Group and started yelling your your secrets. No person is proud of their rule breakages and they would much rather they be kept private. Sure at the crime scene give the warning...but not this.

Well, if one follows the rules it isn't much a concern, is it? Anyway, it isn't public humiliation and it is in no way similar to someone yelling your secrets. Your post history, including posts that have gotten you warned, is readily available. Indeed, for a poster with a low post count such as yourself, it wouldn't be hard at all for interested parties to quickly search your history for offences. The mods aren't informing anyone of anything they couldn't find out themselves.

[Rifty]

Exactly - you have not been in the position so you can't completely put yourself in said position. It is public humiliation and it feels the exact same way as if someone stood ins. Group and started yelling your your secrets. No person is proud of their rule breakages and they would much rather they be kept private. Sure at the crime scene give the warning...but not this.

Well, if one follows the rules it isn't much a concern, is it? Anyway, it isn't public humiliation and it is in no way similar to someone yelling your secrets. Your post history, including posts that have gotten you warned, is readily available. Indeed, for a poster with a low post count such as yourself, it wouldn't be hard at all for interested parties to quickly search your history for offences. The mods aren't informing anyone of anything they couldn't find out themselves.

Humiliated: make (someone) feel ashamed and foolish by injuring their dignity or pride

Humiliation: The act of being humiliated

Public humiliation: to be humiliated in a public setting

I'm failing to see how telling the world that you break the rules is not going to damage you dignity and pride. Oh yea and foolish...and of course ashamed...

It's obvious the world is happy for this to happen to a small group of people; eh. I'll drop the topic instead of arguing with sheep.