Discussion about R/D Game and RP Opting Out

[Aurora Confederacy]

and if they aren't, you dont get in. WAD can only let you in IF he/she has been given admin powers

[The Orson Empire]

The R/D game is actually part of Nationstates. It is built into the game.

If you have ever read the FAQ, it will talk about this.

Internet Explorer is installed on Windows by default.

Never used it, except to download Chrome.

That means nothing.

If you are in a region that is not password protected, then it can be raided. Whether you like it or not, the R/D game exists and will continue to exists. I doubt they will alter the code just because you don't like it.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

Internet Explorer is installed on Windows by default.

Never used it, except to download Chrome.

That means nothing.

If you are in a region that is not password protected, then it can be raided. Whether you like it or not, the R/D game exists and will continue to exists.

That's not really what we're arguing about, here.

I doubt they will alter the code just because you don't like it.

Yeah, since when does anybody do anything because a group of people demand it?
GO HOME, EVERYBODY! APPARENTLY, OUR OPINIONS COUNT FOR NOTHING!

[The Orson Empire]

That means nothing.

If you are in a region that is not password protected, then it can be raided. Whether you like it or not, the R/D game exists and will continue to exists.

That's not really what we're arguing about, here.

I doubt they will alter the code just because you don't like it.

Yeah, since when does anybody do anything because a group of people demand it?
GO HOME, EVERYBODY! APPARENTLY, OUR OPINIONS COUNT FOR NOTHING!

We are talking about the R/D game, aren't we?

And no, your opinions probably don't count. This website is not a democracy. Max Barry owns it, and he can do whatever he wants with it. If he does not want the code to be altered, then it will not be altered, period.

[Purpelia]

We are talking about the R/D game, aren't we?

And no, your opinions probably don't count. This website is not a democracy. Max Barry owns it, and he can do whatever he wants with it. If he does not want the code to be altered, then it will not be altered, period.

You do realize this website is a business right? As in it serves to advertise his books and cash in on stamps. So his freedom to act is directly limited by how much money he wants to lose by scorning us.

[Aurora Confederacy]

well an idea banded around IRC, not my own, i suggested that a tick box to swear in a WAD was put in place, but for PLAYER FOUNDED REGIONS, all passwords are removed but all players outside are banned from entering so you can not simply walk in, to join a region a player must TG the founder or the WAD. The founder, (and WAD if given powers) reads the TG, he / she will by the TG have two buttons

when "invite" is clicked, two more buttons appear, asking "are you sure", [yes][no], once [yes] is sent, the person recieving the telegram gets a button

, after which it is then pressed and the person moves to the region he/she asked to be in. If that player leaves the region, you need to be re-invited in order to re enter.

[The Orson Empire]

We are talking about the R/D game, aren't we?

And no, your opinions probably don't count. This website is not a democracy. Max Barry owns it, and he can do whatever he wants with it. If he does not want the code to be altered, then it will not be altered, period.

You do realize this website is a business right? As in it serves to advertise his books and cash in on stamps. So his freedom to act is directly limited by how much money he wants to lose by scorning us.

Exactly.

If you don't like the game, then don't play it. Simple.

Max Barry could charge us a fee to play this game, but he doesn't. So be grateful for what you have.

[Purpelia]

Exactly.

If you don't like the game, then don't play it. Simple.

Max Barry could charge us a fee to play this game, but he doesn't. So be grateful for what you have.

I was contradicting you, not agreeing with you. I pointed out that if he scorns us he loses money and thus he is in fact not free to scorn us unless he is willing to take said hit.

[The Orson Empire]

Exactly.

If you don't like the game, then don't play it. Simple.

Max Barry could charge us a fee to play this game, but he doesn't. So be grateful for what you have.

I was contradicting you, not agreeing with you. I pointed out that if he scorns us he loses money and thus he is in fact not free to scorn us unless he is willing to take said hit.

Again, it's his website. He can do what he wants. Now, whether that is a smart decision or not is a completely different matter, but in all hindsight of things, he owns this website.

[Euroslavia]

Assorted Suggestions (Bear in mind, this is just day one, we're brainstorming)

[20:35] <Rephesus> Euroslavia, perhaps an opt out for RP Regions which requires things like executive delegate and a password

[20:35] <Luziyca> An idea to give RP regions protections but not screw up the R/D gameplay is by allowing all regions to implement "layered" passwords of like five or seven, which you need to get *all* of them correct to move into the region.

[20:35] <Pollona> Euroslavia: The tickbox suggestion really is a really good runner right now

[20:36] <Soldati> @Euroslavia: I am supposing having a way to format the regional factbook entry to not be raided as an immediate fix would work, however for the long term? I'd say add a feature to distinguish gameplay regions from non-gameplay regions.

[20:37] <commerceheights> a radical solution: what if WA delegates were non-executive unless the total influence of their endorsers was more than the total influence of anyone else’s endorsers?

[20:42] <Euroslavia> There's multiple things we could throw together. We could change it to where instead of needing a password to enter a region, only the Delegate can invite nations. Or perhaps we could do some sort of change to influence. No influence gathered in RP regions with actions by the Delegate not costing influence? I'm just throwing ideas out there.
[20:43] <Rephesus> Delegate invite means that even if a raider takes over, the only way to liberate would be a liberation proposal

[20:44] <Lanos> if things like griefing a region was illegal again for certain situations like RMB vandalism and trolling natives, then why isn't it taking legal shape?
[20:44] <Lanos> If it's nothing more than just to grief the natives, couldn't that be cracked down a bit more?

[20:54] <Delmonte> Well no the most straightforward fix is to make it illegal for raiders to password regions.
[20:54] <Delmonte> As it was before.

[21:12] <Ghost_2501> I am founder of a region, you want to join me but you can't move in, you TG me with a request "Hi there can i join your region please", when I click on that TG I go to YOUR nation page and see a box [BRING *enter nation here* To Region], I click on that then you get a response [ACCEPT INVITE TO *enter region name*], once you have clicked that, you move in.
[21:15] <Ghost_2501> Rephesus, if however you suspect one is a raider, you don't send the invite

Warzone Suggestion

[21:09] <Euroslavia> I'm wondering if on top of this, we can refine the Warzone regions too.
[21:09] <Euroslavia> Perhaps additional incentive to take and hold it for a certain period of time. Trophies? Some sort of new reward?
[21:10] <gruen> raiders have often said that warzones just don't interest them
[21:11] <gruen> they want to harass natives, so warzones don't fill their need
[21:11] <Ainin> Warzones interest no one.

[Purpelia]

Here is a simple suggestion if I may. Have it so that if a region has a password it can't be raided and can't raid. Regions that want to be raided and raid in turn can't have a password.

[Aurora Confederacy]

though Max Barry owns the site and the forum, its the community here that make the forum what it is, however there are elements within the community that are hell bent on causing as much havoc as possible but walking into and trashing other regions.

Some regions are for R/D others are for RP, and its the R/D community trashing the RP comminity and what can be done to protect the RP community against being trashed, therefore something needs to be done before the R/D community forces the RP side to shut down because they don't want to play the R/D games. if the RP community leave, then the site will fold and loose numbers.

and I don't think Max Barry wants numbers to go down, now lets get to the issue of protecting the RP community and those who want NO PART of raiding/defending please

[Escalan Corps-Star Island]

Assorted Suggestions (Bear in mind, this is just day one, we're brainstorming)

[20:35] <Rephesus> Euroslavia, perhaps an opt out for RP Regions which requires things like executive delegate and a password

[20:35] <Luziyca> An idea to give RP regions protections but not screw up the R/D gameplay is by allowing all regions to implement "layered" passwords of like five or seven, which you need to get *all* of them correct to move into the region.

[20:35] <Pollona> Euroslavia: The tickbox suggestion really is a really good runner right now

[20:36] <Soldati> @Euroslavia: I am supposing having a way to format the regional factbook entry to not be raided as an immediate fix would work, however for the long term? I'd say add a feature to distinguish gameplay regions from non-gameplay regions.

[20:37] <commerceheights> a radical solution: what if WA delegates were non-executive unless the total influence of their endorsers was more than the total influence of anyone else’s endorsers?

[20:42] <Euroslavia> There's multiple things we could throw together. We could change it to where instead of needing a password to enter a region, only the Delegate can invite nations. Or perhaps we could do some sort of change to influence. No influence gathered in RP regions with actions by the Delegate not costing influence? I'm just throwing ideas out there.
[20:43] <Rephesus> Delegate invite means that even if a raider takes over, the only way to liberate would be a liberation proposal

[20:44] <Lanos> if things like griefing a region was illegal again for certain situations like RMB vandalism and trolling natives, then why isn't it taking legal shape?
[20:44] <Lanos> If it's nothing more than just to grief the natives, couldn't that be cracked down a bit more?

[20:54] <Delmonte> Well no the most straightforward fix is to make it illegal for raiders to password regions.
[20:54] <Delmonte> As it was before.

[21:12] <Ghost_2501> I am founder of a region, you want to join me but you can't move in, you TG me with a request "Hi there can i join your region please", when I click on that TG I go to YOUR nation page and see a box [BRING *enter nation here* To Region], I click on that then you get a response [ACCEPT INVITE TO *enter region name*], once you have clicked that, you move in.
[21:15] <Ghost_2501> Rephesus, if however you suspect one is a raider, you don't send the invite

Warzone Suggestion

[21:09] <Euroslavia> I'm wondering if on top of this, we can refine the Warzone regions too.
[21:09] <Euroslavia> Perhaps additional incentive to take and hold it for a certain period of time. Trophies? Some sort of new reward?
[21:10] <gruen> raiders have often said that warzones just don't interest them
[21:11] <gruen> they want to harass natives, so warzones don't fill their need
[21:11] <Ainin> Warzones interest no one.

Thanks for your help and patience, Euro. I really appreciate it, as do many others.

[Esternial]

Assorted Suggestions (Bear in mind, this is just day one, we're brainstorming)

[20:35] <Rephesus> Euroslavia, perhaps an opt out for RP Regions which requires things like executive delegate and a password

[20:35] <Luziyca> An idea to give RP regions protections but not screw up the R/D gameplay is by allowing all regions to implement "layered" passwords of like five or seven, which you need to get *all* of them correct to move into the region.

[20:35] <Pollona> Euroslavia: The tickbox suggestion really is a really good runner right now

[20:36] <Soldati> @Euroslavia: I am supposing having a way to format the regional factbook entry to not be raided as an immediate fix would work, however for the long term? I'd say add a feature to distinguish gameplay regions from non-gameplay regions.

[20:37] <commerceheights> a radical solution: what if WA delegates were non-executive unless the total influence of their endorsers was more than the total influence of anyone else’s endorsers?

[20:42] <Euroslavia> There's multiple things we could throw together. We could change it to where instead of needing a password to enter a region, only the Delegate can invite nations. Or perhaps we could do some sort of change to influence. No influence gathered in RP regions with actions by the Delegate not costing influence? I'm just throwing ideas out there.
[20:43] <Rephesus> Delegate invite means that even if a raider takes over, the only way to liberate would be a liberation proposal

[20:44] <Lanos> if things like griefing a region was illegal again for certain situations like RMB vandalism and trolling natives, then why isn't it taking legal shape?
[20:44] <Lanos> If it's nothing more than just to grief the natives, couldn't that be cracked down a bit more?

[20:54] <Delmonte> Well no the most straightforward fix is to make it illegal for raiders to password regions.
[20:54] <Delmonte> As it was before.

[21:12] <Ghost_2501> I am founder of a region, you want to join me but you can't move in, you TG me with a request "Hi there can i join your region please", when I click on that TG I go to YOUR nation page and see a box [BRING *enter nation here* To Region], I click on that then you get a response [ACCEPT INVITE TO *enter region name*], once you have clicked that, you move in.
[21:15] <Ghost_2501> Rephesus, if however you suspect one is a raider, you don't send the invite

Warzone Suggestion

[21:09] <Euroslavia> I'm wondering if on top of this, we can refine the Warzone regions too.
[21:09] <Euroslavia> Perhaps additional incentive to take and hold it for a certain period of time. Trophies? Some sort of new reward?
[21:10] <gruen> raiders have often said that warzones just don't interest them
[21:11] <gruen> they want to harass natives, so warzones don't fill their need
[21:11] <Ainin> Warzones interest no one.

This is a promising start. Hopefully a few reasonable Raiders are willing to chime in with suggestions of their own. I'd personally prefer something we can all more or less agree on.

Admittedly, Raiders will have to make the biggest effort to stop looking out for only their interests and instead those of the NS community in general. We shouldn't take that for granted.

Thanks for taking the lead on this, Euro. What IRC channel is this discussion on?

[Virana]

Thanks for taking the lead on this, Euro. What IRC channel is this discussion on?

#NSMentors on Espernet. A link to the channel with the Mibbit client is in my sig.

[Bob Moran]

Assorted Suggestions (Bear in mind, this is just day one, we're brainstorming)

[20:35] <Rephesus> Euroslavia, perhaps an opt out for RP Regions which requires things like executive delegate and a password

[20:35] <Luziyca> An idea to give RP regions protections but not screw up the R/D gameplay is by allowing all regions to implement "layered" passwords of like five or seven, which you need to get *all* of them correct to move into the region.

[20:35] <Pollona> Euroslavia: The tickbox suggestion really is a really good runner right now

[20:36] <Soldati> @Euroslavia: I am supposing having a way to format the regional factbook entry to not be raided as an immediate fix would work, however for the long term? I'd say add a feature to distinguish gameplay regions from non-gameplay regions.

[20:37] <commerceheights> a radical solution: what if WA delegates were non-executive unless the total influence of their endorsers was more than the total influence of anyone else’s endorsers?

[20:42] <Euroslavia> There's multiple things we could throw together. We could change it to where instead of needing a password to enter a region, only the Delegate can invite nations. Or perhaps we could do some sort of change to influence. No influence gathered in RP regions with actions by the Delegate not costing influence? I'm just throwing ideas out there.
[20:43] <Rephesus> Delegate invite means that even if a raider takes over, the only way to liberate would be a liberation proposal

[20:44] <Lanos> if things like griefing a region was illegal again for certain situations like RMB vandalism and trolling natives, then why isn't it taking legal shape?
[20:44] <Lanos> If it's nothing more than just to grief the natives, couldn't that be cracked down a bit more?

[20:54] <Delmonte> Well no the most straightforward fix is to make it illegal for raiders to password regions.
[20:54] <Delmonte> As it was before.

[21:12] <Ghost_2501> I am founder of a region, you want to join me but you can't move in, you TG me with a request "Hi there can i join your region please", when I click on that TG I go to YOUR nation page and see a box [BRING *enter nation here* To Region], I click on that then you get a response [ACCEPT INVITE TO *enter region name*], once you have clicked that, you move in.
[21:15] <Ghost_2501> Rephesus, if however you suspect one is a raider, you don't send the invite

Warzone Suggestion

[21:09] <Euroslavia> I'm wondering if on top of this, we can refine the Warzone regions too.
[21:09] <Euroslavia> Perhaps additional incentive to take and hold it for a certain period of time. Trophies? Some sort of new reward?
[21:10] <gruen> raiders have often said that warzones just don't interest them
[21:11] <gruen> they want to harass natives, so warzones don't fill their need
[21:11] <Ainin> Warzones interest no one.

Eh, so I'mraiding reading this and this immediately comes to mind. What prevents any founderless region to announce itself as a roleplaying region, tick a box, and become virtually unraidable? Why would Roleplayer benefit from special favors compared to regular regions who exist for other purposes. Are Roleplayers somehow superior to any other region and deserve a special treatement? Do you really think other regions want to be any more raided than roleplayers want to?
See, no one wants to get raided, so if people in their founderless regions are simply allowed to check out, you just remove raiding from the game entirely.
The current system works perfectly. You create a roleplay region, abide by the site rule, keep the founder alive, and you won't ever be raided. Simple. You can even remove any executive power from the delegate. Additionnally, it's not that hard if your founder dies to get your active population to another region. The best example that comes to mind is The Vertusian Federation.

[Esternial]

Assorted Suggestions (Bear in mind, this is just day one, we're brainstorming)



Warzone Suggestion

Eh, so I'mraiding reading this and this immediately comes to mind. What prevents any founderless region to announce itself as a roleplaying region, tick a box, and become virtually unraidable? Why would Roleplayer benefit from special favors compared to regular regions who exist for other purposes. Are Roleplayers somehow superior to any other region and deserve a special treatement? Do you really think other regions want to be any more raided than roleplayers want to?
See, no one wants to get raided, so if people in their founderless regions are simply allowed to check out, you just remove raiding from the game entirely.
The current system works perfectly. You create a roleplay region, abide by the site rule, keep the founder alive, and you won't ever be raided. Simple. You can even remove any executive power from the delegate. Additionnally, it's not that hard if your founder dies to get your active population to another region. The best example that comes to mind is The Vertusian Federation.

I see.

Then a separate system that safeguard aspect of the game RP'ers deem essential would be better? In simple term: make a copy of a region, but give it a different name and make it an un-raidable entity standing next to a region.

[The Dark Star Republic]

Assorted Suggestions (Bear in mind, this is just day one, we're brainstorming)

--snip--

The problem is, most of those suggestions are things that [violet] herself, or moderators on her behalf, have ruled out before. Take a look at [violet]'s posts during the "founder succession" idea discussion.

If you want to argue that there should be a better method of allowing players to opt-out of the NS invasion game, allowing R/D and RP to peacefully co-exist, then you will find much support, but you need to be aware that allowing regions to make themselves invulnerable is not a balanced solution.

The obsession with this mythic idea of "balance" means that what most of those suggestions involve - indeed, what virtually all of the clamour in this entire thread is about - namely, an "opt-out", don't appear to be anything [violet] is willing to consider.

[Bob Moran]

Esternial, I don't know what you mean by copy, essential aspects, and separate system.

[South Pacific Belschaft]

Oh, for the love of God, just refound your bloody regions already and make use of the mechanism that already exists for this purpose. You're not special, you don't get to opt out of game mechanics, stop moaning and demanding the mods hold your hands and do something you're too lazy to do for yourselves.

[The Orson Empire]

Oh, for the love of God, just refound your bloody regions already and make use of the mechanism that already exists for this purpose. You're not special, you don't get to opt out of game mechanics, stop moaning and demanding the mods hold your hands and do something you're too lazy to do for yourselves.

Exactly.

[Premislyd]

Oh, for the love of God, just refound your bloody regions already and make use of the mechanism that already exists for this purpose. You're not special, you don't get to opt out of game mechanics, stop moaning and demanding the mods hold your hands and do something you're too lazy to do for yourselves.

Then you'd be forcing them into a game they don't want to play.

[Esternial]

Esternial, I don't know what you mean by copy, essential aspects, and separate system.

Heh, fair enough. It does require some more details. Sorry for the confusion.

I'll work something out tomorrow.

[The Orson Empire]

Oh, for the love of God, just refound your bloody regions already and make use of the mechanism that already exists for this purpose. You're not special, you don't get to opt out of game mechanics, stop moaning and demanding the mods hold your hands and do something you're too lazy to do for yourselves.

Then you'd be forcing them into a game they don't want to play.

Password-protect your regions. Simple.

[Registug]

Oh, for the love of God, just refound your bloody regions already and make use of the mechanism that already exists for this purpose. You're not special, you don't get to opt out of game mechanics, stop moaning and demanding the mods hold your hands and do something you're too lazy to do for yourselves.

And I will take all 3000 pages of RMB posts with me