Discussion about R/D Game and RP Opting Out

[New Babylonia]

Explain how this forum is a loophole.. You are talking from your rear end now.. And are not making any sense. Your TEK buddy wanted to flame bait and got away with it. Many others are warned just for stating their opinions and getting angry. It's not right and attention needs to be called upon it.

Coraxion you have been trolling all day and you're lucky you haven't been warned yet. If you don't want to be called a troll, stop acting like one.

Calm down, me getting red texted is enough, don't go for trollnaming.

[Vangaziland]

Whose side are you on Babylonia? Someone has to ask the tough questions. I'm doing it so others don't have to. It's clear what they are doing. Now they are outright trying to anger people. Yet I have to worry of being threatened with a warning.. No, Babylonia, it's not right!

[Fartsniffage]

Explain how this forum is a loophole.. You are talking from your rear end now.. And are not making any sense. Your TEK buddy wanted to flame bait and got away with it. Many others are warned just for stating their opinions and getting angry. It's not right and attention needs to be called upon it.

Coraxion you have been trolling all day and you're lucky you haven't been warned yet. If you don't want to be called a troll, stop acting like one.

Calm down, me getting red texted is enough, don't go for trollnaming.

How can one trollname in the Moderation forum? Isn't this exactly where it's supposed to be done?

[Rethan]

Whose side are you on Babylonia? Someone has to ask the tough questions. I'm doing it so others don't have to. It's clear what they are doing. Now they are outright trying to anger people. Yet I have to worry of being threatened with a warning.. No, Babylonia, it's not right!

If you believe they are breaking the rules and flamebaiting, report it in moderation. Trollnaming is against the rules of the forum. Just because you perceive them to be breaking the rules does not give you the right to do so yourself. As tempting as it may be, it won't solve anything.

[New Babylonia]

Calm down, me getting red texted is enough, don't go for trollnaming.

How can one trollname in the Moderation forum? Isn't this exactly where it's supposed to be done?

...
Fair point.

[Vangaziland]

You guys are a piece of work, I swear..

[Coraxion]

And I have freedom of opinion and interpretations in this thread, right? As far I know I'm not trolled anyone here today.

Just trying repeatedly point out that RPers have already means to Opt Out from that evil and hateful Gameplay. Actually I would hope there would be More Gameplayers with better ability to use English 'fighting' this fight, - Defenders or Raiders -, its just same to me now here in this thread.

[Luziyca]

I was here since 2009 as Iraqialand, then Khorata, then Syvorji, and now, I am on this nation.

2009 wasn't "the good old days," either.

You're missing the whole point. The point is that it was only in the past couple years do I see all sides whining and complaining about how "oh NS is so unfair." The mods have given us enough chances. At some point, they shouldn't be forced to do what we want them to do. And that is the line.

Well, whatever. Point is, nobody really complained in 2009.

Yes, we absolutely did:

Regions removed from gameplaying that wish to stay so (for example, Haven). For them, their region is essentially an RP club and the password a means of ensuring not only regional security from gameplayers, but also regulating their membership. Doing so violates no old or new gameplay rules, yet a resolution could override this to no apparent benefit to anyone.

These exact arguments were made against Liberations when they were introduced in 2009, and the gameplay arguments predate them by years. None of this is new, and it is irresponsibly optimistic to think that the admin response will be new, either.

Well, in this case, if anyone tries to do that, they have a right to be rebuked. However, since it is a mod who is proposing as a mere player, everyone is suddenly up in arms and wants him out. Well, he has a life. He wants to do this. So long as he doesn't use his mod tools to get what he wants, it is a-okay. This melodrama is like the Rob Ford scandal, but on NS. This crisis will pass like a fart in the breeze, the original resolution will fail, and all will return to normal.

For the life of God, we had an R&D summit several months ago.

Several months? The majority of that summit occurred in late 2012. It sat relatively unused until August 2013, when a series of changes were announced;

Influence in feeders and sinkers retained for six months rather than indefinitely.
Delegate Elect, with certain delegate changes resulting in the new delegate having limited access to regional controls for a short period of time.
Regional Officers, with the ability to use regional controls.
Annex, which gives a formal in-game recognition to one region's control over another.
Reformation SC proposal which targets a region and removes the ability of its Delegate to access regional controls for a short period of time.
Custodian SC proposal which gives a nation access to the controls of a region, but requiring them to spend influence to use them.
Estimated update times displayed on regions but with a "window of uncertainty" as to when they'll actually update.

Of those, a grand total of 1 has been implemented - the first one. Sedgistan himself said, and I quote, "the Summit didn't work quite as planned and took much longer than intended."

So yeah. Kindly stow your condescension, particularly in light of the fact that you didn't even bother to do a minimal amount of research before sounding off.

Well, the mods have decided that only the first one should be implemented. And it worked out pretty well until you guys started to complain about how they're behind. Relax. The staff are human. They are unpaid, they are like our collective parents. Our parents are human, they have lots of stress by raising their hellions that are children.

In this case, we, the users, are the children on NS. We should obey what our parents command us to do, for it builds character, maturity, and makes things less stressful for all parties involved. However, just like in real life, many of us are undergoing teenage rebellion. They don't want to follow the orders of our parents, for they think it is stupid, arbitrary, and foolish. We don't play that kind of game. The parents if they face whiny children should eventually STOP giving them what they want and start putting the hammer down.

You may call it censorship, but I call it justice. And if you object to the proposal, if it gets to the floor, vote no, and encourage others to do the same.

Besides, if you guys are scared and want advice for the future regarding the regions, take this advice. I will post what I think in this quote to show why.

Now, I see this. Really guys, at this point, I am going to have to explain this, group by group.

• Gameplayers and R&Ders, I fully understand why you may want to enjoy the R&D. It is part of your lifeblood. The thrill of checking the times, getting everything right for your raid, the thrill of interception and assisting others. It is cool. You should continue to do this. You bring a skill and an art and finesse that has made this good. I even dabbled in raiding (Mediterrania and long story short, it failed since TEP raided it and then the natives (well, invaders from its mother region) took it back from me after I tried to secede.
• RPers; I am one of your kind. I belong to Esquarium, an RPing region with an active (albeit lazy founder) and an active delegate. At one point, my region had 253 nations before a schism. Yet, you guys fear that Mall's resolution will reduce your defenses. No problem. Here are some tips:
  - make the founder accessible to the creator of the region, the delegate, and individuals that the creator trusts very very well (the email must be that of the creator)
  - design an orderly line of succession, so if the founder CTEs, the delegate can go up, then a line of prominent people in your region
  - encourage all WA members to endorse the delegate (and possibly vice-delegate) to make it harder for raiders to raid the bloody region
  - back up your factbook, forums, and what not
  If you follow my tips, your region will be safe and secure, but in the off chance that you get raided and get banjected, you can either fight or rebuild elsewhere.
• Everyone who is pissed off at Mall. Please. Chill. He is not using his role as a mod to ram this down our throats. He is merely proposing as a player. He has no ability to muck the votes and fiddle around so it passes. He most likely had no idea of the consequences that laid ahead for him. And if you think that he is trying to piss us off and did it on purpose, well, it's your choice. However, I am confident that it was not his intent to cause grievous harm. He has no need to apologize for proposing a bad proposal.
• Moderators, you may think that you are being led astray by a mob of players who seek to destroy and end this game altogether. As a fellow player, you may be right. Thus, I urge you to keep going on the present course; unless if the Almighty Max decides that the current path is not the correct path, follow it all costs. You don't want to be the parents who always dote and spoil their children. You need to friendly and courteous, yet stern and harsh, depending on whether the recipient deserves it, or not. As far as I know, you guys are all fulfilling that. As the old saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Really. You guys are all asking for special privileges here. So what I feel is the best way is to ditch these complaints, and come to terms with the fact that unless if Max wants something changed, we should keep going in the present course, because in the long run, it will make NS better. If we change now, NS will go the way of NS2; a shitty and buggy game because you guys wanted to make NS like NS2. And I'm certain nobody wants NS2.

As for my experience in gameplay; raiding is quite hard, especially if you're starting out without an organization and try and grow your own. You may not have the tools that other raiders use, so you take your time and choose a small region. You will need your friends to do this, so to become a delegate.

My only success, Mediterrania was quite fun: I got it to secede from Mazeria for a few days, it garnered a lot of attention from Mazerians who tried to liberate it, but I held out until I made the stupid decision in recruiting in The East Pacific, when they raided the shit out of me, and by next update, Mazeria took it back.

However, as an RPer who sees Esquarium as important, you need an active delegate and founder, a large collection of endorsements to make most natives of the region invulnerable to attack, and a line of succession so the region will last. In that case, the only realistic way you could raid the region would be via a Trojan Horse method (move in, be friendly with the locals, blend in for a while until your raider pals endorse you en masse and make YOU delegate) which I tried to do a few times and only succeeded once (and nearly killed my own region). Personally, I oppose passwords since it keeps a region from reaching its fullest potential, and Esquarium has no password since we want to welcome all RPers (and Generalites and Gameplayers) in. But it is the choice of the region to do what they wish.

On the contrary, you're all forgetting that most GP regions also provide and actively engage in Role Play, both on NS forums, offsite forums, and some directly on the Regional Message Board. And what's a safer RP environment then in an active region that engages in GP to defend itself? And in return, some of those RPers join the region's forces to help protect their region.

Explain why a nation should have to defend itself? Only if trolls are threatening to play games with their work. It shouldn't be an issue. But somehow trolling and bending the nature of what is supposed to simply be endorsing a candidate is called a game. It's not a game. It's manipulating the site's mechanics and it doesn't need to go on. I guess the mods and other staff are happy that their website is constantly being exploited maliciously for the enjoyment of a few trolls.

A mod team should, in theory, exist to weed out trolling and loophole manipulation. I am baffled as to why mods on this site are adamant about defending it. And I hope this topic countinues for months.

No it shouldn't. The faster this farce of a discussion ends, the better off the community will be. After all, I surveyed 200 random NSers who are representative of the whole NS community (not just the vocal minority here) by TG (recipients names protected for privacy reason) and 85% said that the current situation is the best, 10% said we need changes, and 5% haven't gotten back to me. 80% of the 200 people say that most of the people on both sides are complaining and whining. The same 80% said the current situation is best.

Clearly, the only reason why the current system doesn't seem to be working is because you, the players decide it isn't working for you, even though it has for the past twelve years.

Call me condescending, but we shouldn't force the mods to do what we want indefinitely. End of story.

[New Babylonia]

Whose side are you on Babylonia? Someone has to ask the tough questions. I'm doing it so others don't have to. It's clear what they are doing. Now they are outright trying to anger people. Yet I have to worry of being threatened with a warning.. No, Babylonia, it's not right!

I know they are. I got warned because they succeeded. In case you haven't noticed, I'm trying to stop more red text. Doesn't exactly help us if we keep getting red texted, now does it?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

And I have freedom of opinion and interpretations in this thread, right? As far I know I'm not trolled anyone here today.

Just trying repeatedly point out that RPers have already means to Opt Out from that evil and hateful Gameplay. Actually I would hope there would be More Gameplayers with better ability to use English 'fighting' this fight, - Defenders or Raiders -, its just same to me now here in this thread.

No, they do not. The last vestige of their protection - which is passwords of regions that EXPLICITLY have said they do not want to play the R/D game - are now under the scope of the Sec Council.

We shouldn't have to worry about being raided, even if we're not a region of RPers. This goes way beyond that. This means that if a region becomes popular in NSG they can be raided because of the prestige they garnered in General, or sports, or whathave you that doesn't deal with R/D.

[Vangaziland]

You missed the point there, Luzi... Why should a nation HAVE to defend itself? Nice job expressing your words against me with all that writing. Yet you missed the point.

[Delmonte]

And I have freedom of opinion and interpretations in this thread, right? As far I know I'm not trolled anyone here today.

Just trying repeatedly point out that RPers have already means to Opt Out from that evil and hateful Gameplay. Actually I would hope there would be More Gameplayers with better ability to use English 'fighting' this fight, - Defenders or Raiders -, its just same to me now here in this thread.

We HAD that option and now Mallorea has declared war on it along with the support of many Raiders such as yourself. And many prominent Raiders too.

[Fartsniffage]

Well, the mods have decided that only the first one should be implemented. And it worked out pretty well until you guys started to complain about how they're behind. Relax. The staff are human. They are unpaid, they are like our collective parents. Our parents are human, they have lots of stress by raising their hellions that are children.

In this case, we, the users, are the children on NS. We should obey what our parents command us to do, for it builds character, maturity, and makes things less stressful for all parties involved. However, just like in real life, many of us are undergoing teenage rebellion. They don't want to follow the orders of our parents, for they think it is stupid, arbitrary, and foolish. We don't play that kind of game. The parents if they face whiny children should eventually STOP giving them what they want and start putting the hammer down.

You may call it censorship, but I call it justice. And if you object to the proposal, if it gets to the floor, vote no, and encourage others to do the same.

Besides, if you guys are scared and want advice for the future regarding the regions, take this advice. I will post what I think in this quote to show why.

What a bunch of condescending twaddle.

[Delmonte]

2009 wasn't "the good old days," either.

You're missing the whole point. The point is that it was only in the past couple years do I see all sides whining and complaining about how "oh NS is so unfair." The mods have given us enough chances. At some point, they shouldn't be forced to do what we want them to do. And that is the line.

Yes, we absolutely did:

These exact arguments were made against Liberations when they were introduced in 2009, and the gameplay arguments predate them by years. None of this is new, and it is irresponsibly optimistic to think that the admin response will be new, either.

Well, in this case, if anyone tries to do that, they have a right to be rebuked. However, since it is a mod who is proposing as a mere player, everyone is suddenly up in arms and wants him out. Well, he has a life. He wants to do this. So long as he doesn't use his mod tools to get what he wants, it is a-okay. This melodrama is like the Rob Ford scandal, but on NS. This crisis will pass like a fart in the breeze, the original resolution will fail, and all will return to normal.

Several months? The majority of that summit occurred in late 2012. It sat relatively unused until August 2013, when a series of changes were announced;



Of those, a grand total of 1 has been implemented - the first one. Sedgistan himself said, and I quote, "the Summit didn't work quite as planned and took much longer than intended."

So yeah. Kindly stow your condescension, particularly in light of the fact that you didn't even bother to do a minimal amount of research before sounding off.

Well, the mods have decided that only the first one should be implemented. And it worked out pretty well until you guys started to complain about how they're behind. Relax. The staff are human. They are unpaid, they are like our collective parents. Our parents are human, they have lots of stress by raising their hellions that are children.

In this case, we, the users, are the children on NS. We should obey what our parents command us to do, for it builds character, maturity, and makes things less stressful for all parties involved. However, just like in real life, many of us are undergoing teenage rebellion. They don't want to follow the orders of our parents, for they think it is stupid, arbitrary, and foolish. We don't play that kind of game. The parents if they face whiny children should eventually STOP giving them what they want and start putting the hammer down.

You may call it censorship, but I call it justice. And if you object to the proposal, if it gets to the floor, vote no, and encourage others to do the same.

Besides, if you guys are scared and want advice for the future regarding the regions, take this advice. I will post what I think in this quote to show why.

Now, I see this. Really guys, at this point, I am going to have to explain this, group by group.

• Gameplayers and R&Ders, I fully understand why you may want to enjoy the R&D. It is part of your lifeblood. The thrill of checking the times, getting everything right for your raid, the thrill of interception and assisting others. It is cool. You should continue to do this. You bring a skill and an art and finesse that has made this good. I even dabbled in raiding (Mediterrania and long story short, it failed since TEP raided it and then the natives (well, invaders from its mother region) took it back from me after I tried to secede.
• RPers; I am one of your kind. I belong to Esquarium, an RPing region with an active (albeit lazy founder) and an active delegate. At one point, my region had 253 nations before a schism. Yet, you guys fear that Mall's resolution will reduce your defenses. No problem. Here are some tips:
  - make the founder accessible to the creator of the region, the delegate, and individuals that the creator trusts very very well (the email must be that of the creator)
  - design an orderly line of succession, so if the founder CTEs, the delegate can go up, then a line of prominent people in your region
  - encourage all WA members to endorse the delegate (and possibly vice-delegate) to make it harder for raiders to raid the bloody region
  - back up your factbook, forums, and what not
  If you follow my tips, your region will be safe and secure, but in the off chance that you get raided and get banjected, you can either fight or rebuild elsewhere.
• Everyone who is pissed off at Mall. Please. Chill. He is not using his role as a mod to ram this down our throats. He is merely proposing as a player. He has no ability to muck the votes and fiddle around so it passes. He most likely had no idea of the consequences that laid ahead for him. And if you think that he is trying to piss us off and did it on purpose, well, it's your choice. However, I am confident that it was not his intent to cause grievous harm. He has no need to apologize for proposing a bad proposal.
• Moderators, you may think that you are being led astray by a mob of players who seek to destroy and end this game altogether. As a fellow player, you may be right. Thus, I urge you to keep going on the present course; unless if the Almighty Max decides that the current path is not the correct path, follow it all costs. You don't want to be the parents who always dote and spoil their children. You need to friendly and courteous, yet stern and harsh, depending on whether the recipient deserves it, or not. As far as I know, you guys are all fulfilling that. As the old saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Really. You guys are all asking for special privileges here. So what I feel is the best way is to ditch these complaints, and come to terms with the fact that unless if Max wants something changed, we should keep going in the present course, because in the long run, it will make NS better. If we change now, NS will go the way of NS2; a shitty and buggy game because you guys wanted to make NS like NS2. And I'm certain nobody wants NS2.

As for my experience in gameplay; raiding is quite hard, especially if you're starting out without an organization and try and grow your own. You may not have the tools that other raiders use, so you take your time and choose a small region. You will need your friends to do this, so to become a delegate.

My only success, Mediterrania was quite fun: I got it to secede from Mazeria for a few days, it garnered a lot of attention from Mazerians who tried to liberate it, but I held out until I made the stupid decision in recruiting in The East Pacific, when they raided the shit out of me, and by next update, Mazeria took it back.

However, as an RPer who sees Esquarium as important, you need an active delegate and founder, a large collection of endorsements to make most natives of the region invulnerable to attack, and a line of succession so the region will last. In that case, the only realistic way you could raid the region would be via a Trojan Horse method (move in, be friendly with the locals, blend in for a while until your raider pals endorse you en masse and make YOU delegate) which I tried to do a few times and only succeeded once (and nearly killed my own region). Personally, I oppose passwords since it keeps a region from reaching its fullest potential, and Esquarium has no password since we want to welcome all RPers (and Generalites and Gameplayers) in. But it is the choice of the region to do what they wish.

Explain why a nation should have to defend itself? Only if trolls are threatening to play games with their work. It shouldn't be an issue. But somehow trolling and bending the nature of what is supposed to simply be endorsing a candidate is called a game. It's not a game. It's manipulating the site's mechanics and it doesn't need to go on. I guess the mods and other staff are happy that their website is constantly being exploited maliciously for the enjoyment of a few trolls.

A mod team should, in theory, exist to weed out trolling and loophole manipulation. I am baffled as to why mods on this site are adamant about defending it. And I hope this topic countinues for months.

No it shouldn't. The faster this farce of a discussion ends, the better off the community will be. After all, I surveyed 200 random NSers who are representative of the whole NS community (not just the vocal minority here) by TG (recipients names protected for privacy reason) and 85% said that the current situation is the best, 10% said we need changes, and 5% haven't gotten back to me. 80% of the 200 people say that most of the people on both sides are complaining and whining. The same 80% said the current situation is best.

Clearly, the only reason why the current system doesn't seem to be working is because you, the players decide it isn't working for you, even though it has for the past twelve years.

Call me condescending, but we shouldn't force the mods to do what we want indefinitely. End of story.

Ah, no. This has been a problem since the move to Jolt according to many RPers who have been around since before then.

[Bears Armed]

Really. You guys are all asking for special privileges here.

No, it's the raiders -- by insisting that they must be able to force their version of the game onto the rest of us, although nobody can force any other aspect of the game onto them in return -- who are doing that.

[Yasuragi]

Well, the mods have decided that only the first one should be implemented. And it worked out pretty well until you guys started to complain about how they're behind. Relax. The staff are human. They are unpaid, they are like our collective parents. Our parents are human, they have lots of stress by raising their hellions that are children.

In this case, we, the users, are the children on NS. We should obey what our parents command us to do, for it builds character, maturity, and makes things less stressful for all parties involved. However, just like in real life, many of us are undergoing teenage rebellion. They don't want to follow the orders of our parents, for they think it is stupid, arbitrary, and foolish. We don't play that kind of game. The parents if they face whiny children should eventually STOP giving them what they want and start putting the hammer down.

You may call it censorship, but I call it justice. And if you object to the proposal, if it gets to the floor, vote no, and encourage others to do the same.

Besides, if you guys are scared and want advice for the future regarding the regions, take this advice. I will post what I think in this quote to show why.

What a bunch of condescending twaddle.

Must second this, with apologies to Luz. Good effort, but the tone in there is...off-putting, to say the least.

[Delmonte]

Luziyca, I get what you're doing. You're trying to seem moderate and reasonable and like the Devil's advocate and you're maybe even trying to pander favor with Moderation. But you're just coming off as someone who hasn't read anything and is backbiting against his own community. So knock it off.

[New Babylonia]

Well, the mods have decided that only the first one should be implemented. And it worked out pretty well until you guys started to complain about how they're behind. Relax. The staff are human. They are unpaid, they are like our collective parents. Our parents are human, they have lots of stress by raising their hellions that are children.

In this case, we, the users, are the children on NS. We should obey what our parents command us to do, for it builds character, maturity, and makes things less stressful for all parties involved. However, just like in real life, many of us are undergoing teenage rebellion. They don't want to follow the orders of our parents, for they think it is stupid, arbitrary, and foolish. We don't play that kind of game. The parents if they face whiny children should eventually STOP giving them what they want and start putting the hammer down.

You may call it censorship, but I call it justice. And if you object to the proposal, if it gets to the floor, vote no, and encourage others to do the same.

Besides, if you guys are scared and want advice for the future regarding the regions, take this advice. I will post what I think in this quote to show why.

What a bunch of condescending twaddle.

Agreed.

Luz, several problems with your 'survey'. A) I don't entirely believe it happened. But for the most part, I assume you did. B) You assume these people knew anything about the situation, or anything about either side. C) You have no way of knowing if telegrammed 200 separate people, or nations. You may tged 200 nations, but only 15 people because you hit their puppets.

And, lastly, I don't believe the percentages either. As you can see, quite a damned sizable percent of the NS community is more than a little displeased right now.

[Fartsniffage]

What a bunch of condescending twaddle.

Agreed.

Luz, several problems with your 'survey'. A) I don't entirely believe it happened. But for the most part, I assume you did. B) You assume these people knew anything about the situation, or anything about either side. C) You have no way of knowing if telegrammed 200 separate people, or nations. You may tged 200 nations, but only 15 people because you hit their puppets.

And, lastly, I don't believe the percentages either. As you can see, quite a damned sizable percent of the NS community is more than a little displeased right now.

Personally, I'd be interested to see the question used....

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

2009 wasn't "the good old days," either.

You're missing the whole point. The point is that it was only in the past couple years do I see all sides whining and complaining about how "oh NS is so unfair." The mods have given us enough chances. At some point, they shouldn't be forced to do what we want them to do. And that is the line.

Yes, we absolutely did:

These exact arguments were made against Liberations when they were introduced in 2009, and the gameplay arguments predate them by years. None of this is new, and it is irresponsibly optimistic to think that the admin response will be new, either.

Well, in this case, if anyone tries to do that, they have a right to be rebuked. However, since it is a mod who is proposing as a mere player, everyone is suddenly up in arms and wants him out. Well, he has a life. He wants to do this. So long as he doesn't use his mod tools to get what he wants, it is a-okay. This melodrama is like the Rob Ford scandal, but on NS. This crisis will pass like a fart in the breeze, the original resolution will fail, and all will return to normal.

Several months? The majority of that summit occurred in late 2012. It sat relatively unused until August 2013, when a series of changes were announced;



Of those, a grand total of 1 has been implemented - the first one. Sedgistan himself said, and I quote, "the Summit didn't work quite as planned and took much longer than intended."

So yeah. Kindly stow your condescension, particularly in light of the fact that you didn't even bother to do a minimal amount of research before sounding off.

Well, the mods have decided that only the first one should be implemented. And it worked out pretty well until you guys started to complain about how they're behind. Relax. The staff are human. They are unpaid, they are like our collective parents. Our parents are human, they have lots of stress by raising their hellions that are children.

In this case, we, the users, are the children on NS. We should obey what our parents command us to do, for it builds character, maturity, and makes things less stressful for all parties involved. However, just like in real life, many of us are undergoing teenage rebellion. They don't want to follow the orders of our parents, for they think it is stupid, arbitrary, and foolish. We don't play that kind of game. The parents if they face whiny children should eventually STOP giving them what they want and start putting the hammer down.

You may call it censorship, but I call it justice. And if you object to the proposal, if it gets to the floor, vote no, and encourage others to do the same.

Besides, if you guys are scared and want advice for the future regarding the regions, take this advice. I will post what I think in this quote to show why.

Now, I see this. Really guys, at this point, I am going to have to explain this, group by group.

• Gameplayers and R&Ders, I fully understand why you may want to enjoy the R&D. It is part of your lifeblood. The thrill of checking the times, getting everything right for your raid, the thrill of interception and assisting others. It is cool. You should continue to do this. You bring a skill and an art and finesse that has made this good. I even dabbled in raiding (Mediterrania and long story short, it failed since TEP raided it and then the natives (well, invaders from its mother region) took it back from me after I tried to secede.
• RPers; I am one of your kind. I belong to Esquarium, an RPing region with an active (albeit lazy founder) and an active delegate. At one point, my region had 253 nations before a schism. Yet, you guys fear that Mall's resolution will reduce your defenses. No problem. Here are some tips:
  - make the founder accessible to the creator of the region, the delegate, and individuals that the creator trusts very very well (the email must be that of the creator)
  - design an orderly line of succession, so if the founder CTEs, the delegate can go up, then a line of prominent people in your region
  - encourage all WA members to endorse the delegate (and possibly vice-delegate) to make it harder for raiders to raid the bloody region
  - back up your factbook, forums, and what not
  If you follow my tips, your region will be safe and secure, but in the off chance that you get raided and get banjected, you can either fight or rebuild elsewhere.
• Everyone who is pissed off at Mall. Please. Chill. He is not using his role as a mod to ram this down our throats. He is merely proposing as a player. He has no ability to muck the votes and fiddle around so it passes. He most likely had no idea of the consequences that laid ahead for him. And if you think that he is trying to piss us off and did it on purpose, well, it's your choice. However, I am confident that it was not his intent to cause grievous harm. He has no need to apologize for proposing a bad proposal.
• Moderators, you may think that you are being led astray by a mob of players who seek to destroy and end this game altogether. As a fellow player, you may be right. Thus, I urge you to keep going on the present course; unless if the Almighty Max decides that the current path is not the correct path, follow it all costs. You don't want to be the parents who always dote and spoil their children. You need to friendly and courteous, yet stern and harsh, depending on whether the recipient deserves it, or not. As far as I know, you guys are all fulfilling that. As the old saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Really. You guys are all asking for special privileges here. So what I feel is the best way is to ditch these complaints, and come to terms with the fact that unless if Max wants something changed, we should keep going in the present course, because in the long run, it will make NS better. If we change now, NS will go the way of NS2; a shitty and buggy game because you guys wanted to make NS like NS2. And I'm certain nobody wants NS2.

As for my experience in gameplay; raiding is quite hard, especially if you're starting out without an organization and try and grow your own. You may not have the tools that other raiders use, so you take your time and choose a small region. You will need your friends to do this, so to become a delegate.

My only success, Mediterrania was quite fun: I got it to secede from Mazeria for a few days, it garnered a lot of attention from Mazerians who tried to liberate it, but I held out until I made the stupid decision in recruiting in The East Pacific, when they raided the shit out of me, and by next update, Mazeria took it back.

However, as an RPer who sees Esquarium as important, you need an active delegate and founder, a large collection of endorsements to make most natives of the region invulnerable to attack, and a line of succession so the region will last. In that case, the only realistic way you could raid the region would be via a Trojan Horse method (move in, be friendly with the locals, blend in for a while until your raider pals endorse you en masse and make YOU delegate) which I tried to do a few times and only succeeded once (and nearly killed my own region). Personally, I oppose passwords since it keeps a region from reaching its fullest potential, and Esquarium has no password since we want to welcome all RPers (and Generalites and Gameplayers) in. But it is the choice of the region to do what they wish.

Explain why a nation should have to defend itself? Only if trolls are threatening to play games with their work. It shouldn't be an issue. But somehow trolling and bending the nature of what is supposed to simply be endorsing a candidate is called a game. It's not a game. It's manipulating the site's mechanics and it doesn't need to go on. I guess the mods and other staff are happy that their website is constantly being exploited maliciously for the enjoyment of a few trolls.

A mod team should, in theory, exist to weed out trolling and loophole manipulation. I am baffled as to why mods on this site are adamant about defending it. And I hope this topic countinues for months.

No it shouldn't. The faster this farce of a discussion ends, the better off the community will be. After all, I surveyed 200 random NSers who are representative of the whole NS community (not just the vocal minority here) by TG (recipients names protected for privacy reason) and 85% said that the current situation is the best, 10% said we need changes, and 5% haven't gotten back to me. 80% of the 200 people say that most of the people on both sides are complaining and whining. The same 80% said the current situation is best.

Clearly, the only reason why the current system doesn't seem to be working is because you, the players decide it isn't working for you, even though it has for the past twelve years.

Call me condescending, but we shouldn't force the mods to do what we want indefinitely. End of story.

I don';t think this is about people complaining a lot in the past couple of years.

This issue, in particular, needs to be discussed because it is obvious, if the proposal is approved, that a big sector of the population of this forum who has stated time and time again that they wish to remain out of the childish game of raiding and have passworded their regions, will be forced to cater to another sector of the NS population that thinks they have a right to raid regions, even when members of said regions do not want to be raided, just because it ''spices'' up the game and some of these regions are founderless now.

Nope, not cool at all.

[Coraxion]

And I have freedom of opinion and interpretations in this thread, right? As far I know I'm not trolled anyone here today.

Just trying repeatedly point out that RPers have already means to Opt Out from that evil and hateful Gameplay. Actually I would hope there would be More Gameplayers with better ability to use English 'fighting' this fight, - Defenders or Raiders -, its just same to me now here in this thread.

We HAD that option and now Mallorea has declared war on it along with the support of many Raiders such as yourself. And many prominent Raiders too.

If that is The case I stand in The Line with Mall. Your behavior and rage is something hardly ever encountered in a GamePlaying Spheres, where unlike you Roleplayers, players use their WA-nations as a 'Soldiers', being personally involved to actions taken, not only in Imagination but also in The Reality of The Game environment.

Reality comes before imagination.

[New Babylonia]

Agreed.

Luz, several problems with your 'survey'. A) I don't entirely believe it happened. But for the most part, I assume you did. B) You assume these people knew anything about the situation, or anything about either side. C) You have no way of knowing if telegrammed 200 separate people, or nations. You may tged 200 nations, but only 15 people because you hit their puppets.

And, lastly, I don't believe the percentages either. As you can see, quite a damned sizable percent of the NS community is more than a little displeased right now.

Personally, I'd be interested to see the question used....

That's another good question too. May we see the used question Luz?

[New Babylonia]

We HAD that option and now Mallorea has declared war on it along with the support of many Raiders such as yourself. And many prominent Raiders too.

If that is The case I stand in The Line with Mall. Your behavior and rage is something hardly ever encountered in a GamePlaying Spheres, where unlike you Roleplayers, players use their WA-nations as a 'Soldiers', being personally involved to actions taken, not only in Imagination but also in The Reality of The Game environment.

Reality comes before imagination.

You disgust me. You are literally comparing clicking buttons on a screen to being a soldier in war. Disgusting. Shame on you. You clearly do not understand what war is. Your little 'wars' are no more reality than our roleplays. Your 'wars' are a fiction you all made up, to create a game. Just like our Roleplay. Actions? By actions, you mean, click buttons? So heroic of you. Such bravery and glory earned.

That's why I hate raiders, they think they deserve then title of a glorious conqueror because they 'conquered' a virtual place by clicking a mouse. Stop that, its ridiculous, and a disgusting comparison.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

We HAD that option and now Mallorea has declared war on it along with the support of many Raiders such as yourself. And many prominent Raiders too.

If that is The case I stand in The Line with Mall. Your behavior and rage is something hardly ever encountered in a GamePlaying Spheres, where unlike you Roleplayers, players use their WA-nations as a 'Soldiers', being personally involved to actions taken, not only in Imagination but also in The Reality of The Game environment.

Reality comes before imagination.

This isn't a problem of "reality vs. imagination" it is a matter of consent, or leave me the fuck alone because I do not want to be bossed around into doing what I do not wish to do.

You can claim RP is less important than GP in your opinion, that still doesn't give you the right to trample over my right to not consent to be part of your silly made up game or raiding unconsenting regions.

[Vangaziland]

Reality comes before imagination.

The reality is not that you are some kind of soldier or he-ro.. The reality is that you are manipulating what should be just a game mechanic of endorsing a candidate for something weird. It doesn't need to be done. But if you must, keep it to yourselves. That is our viewpoint and it is simply that, our viewpoint. But the reality is not that you are soldiers.. LOL