Discussion about R/D Game and RP Opting Out

[Soldati Senza Confini]

@The Serbian Empire

Don't try to attribute the way we play the game to how we are in real life, especially if you haven't met us, know us, or have even visited one of our regions off site forums. Come and talk to us, chill out in the IRC, play a few spam games on the forum, participate in one of the RP's that we have before you try and judge the player behind the screen.

You may be nice and chilled out, it doesn't excuse the fact you're forcing everyone else to play your version of the game.

I can be the nicest guy in the world but if I act like a prick and shit on people's parades all day long they will consider me a prick.

[Transoxthraxia]

That still requires that RPers be involved with R/D or the WA overall. Not something people always want to do.



Fantastic, but sadly, as a side-effect of the raids, regional cohesion and/or records are often ruined, RMB posts suppressed, nations booted, etc. Why should they go through this hassle?



That's great.

Except the vast majority of RPers and other individuals currently making a fuss aren't actually advocating for the destruction of R/D. Just a way to remove ourselves from it. If you think that we need to be forced into a game we have no interest in playing in order to keep that game going, well....it's not much of a game, no?

And if that's not the case -- that we don't need to be forced into playing R/D -- then simply let people remove themselves entirely. If R/D is as exciting and innovative and fine-tuned as you say, it'll survive just fine. If, however, R/D requires attacking the regions of relatively unwilling participants, then.... again, not much of a game.



Again, a hassle. I use three separate nations, all of which are/have been involved in numerous RPs, written information, factbooks, etc. Why should I go to the hassle of trying to organize and set it up on an entirely separate website, or meticulously save everything on my own computer, when I should simply store it in my region?



(emphasis mine, of course)

Nice generalization. I agree with your sentiments, but the way you worded it means I won't support it at all.



And a fine Friday to all non-Americans.

1. What, is it to much of a hassle2. to join the WA (which takes about 5-10 seconds) and vote against something?
2. On RMB suppression that is pretty much a useless gesture as you can still opt to see the suppressed post.
3. This argument is invalid as there are ways of defending yourselves from even having your password removed as I have already laid out.
4. So you don't wanna do it because it's...inconvenient? Utterly ridiculous, stop being lazy and just copy paste to word, hit control+s, give it a title that says what it is so you don't mix your nations up, and be done with it.
5. I'm honestly not interested in arguing semantics with you.
6. Damn straight, Friday is just awesome.

And I just said 1% to cover for that once in a blue moon (at the most) that it does happen and I don't have an angry mob after me for lying to them or some ridiculousness like that. But again, R/D regions back shit up, our laws, our forum signatures, our dare I say it... RP's that we value. This shit is backed up. So we back all of our stuff up so that IF in the highly unlikely event, something DOES happen and the board is shut down/destroyed, we still have our information. It's just a matter of being willing to put the effort into it. If you're not willing to put the effort preserving it, was it worth it?

Alright, as a person who refuses to join the WA,
1. Because ethically and politically I'm against it.
2. Who cares? Don't come into my region in the first place.
3. No, there's one way, and it can easily be countered by raiders.
4. Yes, that's why we don't want to do it. A game isn't a game if it inconveniences certain people. That's why I don't "play" it.
5. Then don't argue.

[Parhe]

Speaking as someone that doesn't do this whole R/D thing, most raiders consider NS as just a game. For the most part, especially on IRC, raiders are decent. More so than many that have been speaking in this thread.

And most RPers consider this a community and a place where they can write out their fantasies. Your point being?

The fact people are being hostile is tied in to the fact people are forcing them to do something they don't want. It's not fun when you are having fun writing and someone else comes, takes your notebook and tosses it on top of a house's rooftop and forces you to play "let's see who gives who a wedgie" against your will or else they won't try to get your notebook back.

It should have been obvious. My point being that as people go raiders are pretty nice to talk to or generally just interact with. What did you think my point was?

[The Serbian Empire]

@The Serbian Empire

Don't try to attribute the way we play the game to how we are in real life, especially if you haven't met us, know us, or have even visited one of our regions off site forums. Come and talk to us, chill out in the IRC, play a few spam games on the forum, participate in one of the RP's that we have before you try and judge the player behind the screen.

You may be nice and chilled out, it doesn't excuse the fact you're forcing everyone else to play your version of the game.

I can be the nicest guy in the world but if I act like a prick and shit on people's parades all day long they will consider me a prick.

Yep, that's the image issue with raiders. I'm ambivalent to the idea of their gameplay style as long as they don't give me the boot from my region. If they do that, I'll probably think of them as the worst thing since the Shake Weight.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

And most RPers consider this a community and a place where they can write out their fantasies. Your point being?

The fact people are being hostile is tied in to the fact people are forcing them to do something they don't want. It's not fun when you are having fun writing and someone else comes, takes your notebook and tosses it on top of a house's rooftop and forces you to play "let's see who gives who a wedgie" against your will or else they won't try to get your notebook back.

It should have been obvious. My point being that as people go raiders are pretty nice to talk to or generally just interact with. What did you think my point was?

I just don't see the point of you pointing out "hostiles" when raiders also use hostility and coercion to achieve their goals.

[Parhe]

The "vocalness" of raiders doesn't really excuse Tue OP's snappy comment to Unibot, one of the most anti Raider people on here.

Also a region really must have annoyed a group of raiders if they are going after a region with an active founder. Still you and a lot of others are dismissing it because it isn't a hundred percent effective, at least in theory. Like I mean how many things in life are 100% effective?

The raiders have done stranger things. They've taken over regions just to remove the flag and then leave without kicking anyone out.

That isn't really strange, especially compared to raiding a region with an active founder. Or even an inactive founder. A lot of raiders do little more than just tag the region

[Vaculatestar4]

That's what you call a tag raid.

[Parhe]

It should have been obvious. My point being that as people go raiders are pretty nice to talk to or generally just interact with. What did you think my point was?

I just don't see the point of you pointing out "hostiles" when raiders also use hostility and coercion to achieve their goals.

I've used the word hostile once in this thread and last I checked Unibot wasn't a raider. So tell me again why raiders being hostile makes it okay to be hostile towards him?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

You may be nice and chilled out, it doesn't excuse the fact you're forcing everyone else to play your version of the game.

I can be the nicest guy in the world but if I act like a prick and shit on people's parades all day long they will consider me a prick.

Yep, that's the image issue with raiders. I'm ambivalent to the idea of their gameplay style as long as they don't give me the boot from my region. If they do that, I'll probably think of them as the worst thing since the Shake Weight.

I don't really care if they play their little raid and defending game or not as long as they leave people who don't want to play the fuck alone.

Forcing people to do something they don't want is clearly something that wouldn't pass muster even at a school.

[The Serbian Empire]

The raiders have done stranger things. They've taken over regions just to remove the flag and then leave without kicking anyone out.

That isn't really strange, especially compared to raiding a region with an active founder. Or even an inactive founder. A lot of raiders do little more than just tag the region

I think of it as little more than graffiti and vandalism. I can tolerate that style of raid, but when they kick people out to the sinker regions then that's too much for me.

[Parhe]

You may be nice and chilled out, it doesn't excuse the fact you're forcing everyone else to play your version of the game.

I can be the nicest guy in the world but if I act like a prick and shit on people's parades all day long they will consider me a prick.

Yep, that's the image issue with raiders. I'm ambivalent to the idea of their gameplay style as long as they don't give me the boot from my region. If they do that, I'll probably think of them as the worst thing since the Shake Weight.

That's part of the same reason why I had a negative view of some RP'ers. I don't care what they do but I will get annoyed if a group of them randomly raid my region, TSP, and start kicking my nations.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I just don't see the point of you pointing out "hostiles" when raiders also use hostility and coercion to achieve their goals.

I've used the word hostile once in this thread and last I checked Unibot wasn't a raider. So tell me again why raiders being hostile makes it okay to be hostile towards him?

Tell me again when did I said that?

I just said you shouldn't be throwing rocks at other people's houses when your own house is made out of glass.

I never said that accusations towards Unibot were justified. I just said that pointing the finger at people and going "oh you're so worse than raiders, and this thread proves it" doesn't amount to much given the opposite has happened for much much longer.

[Coraxion]

Elke and alba. Why it so difficult put some passwords, make delegate access barred and stop this endless crying about inequality between GPers and RPers and everything between and beyond that?

Why exactly RPers should have some special privileges, when everybody can opt out from Gameplay (including Gameplayers) if and when they want, by using same mechanics and options available for all players (including RPers).

If someone cannot keep his/hers Regional Founder alive (for firesure Opt out), do not claim it is fault of somebody else then fault of NS Player behind the CTE'd founder of the region, unable to Opt out from gameplay.

Cora, don't you find it silly you are saying that with what Mall's is doing now? He's trying to liberate Haven which has a password.

"Oh that's fine you say, they should have a founder ja?"

But they don't! They are so ancient they don't even have a founder. What goes then?

So rather than acting naive assuming that every single region has a founder, why not reflect how silly that statement is?

Ooops! I meant Mall's Liberation, Indeed. Anyway, there could be still WA-SC Repeal Liberation by Mall, if WA-SC Liberation By Mall will be voted through, someday. It would be logical... and useful.

Thanks for spotting blatant error, E&A!

[Grenartia]

That still requires that RPers be involved with R/D or the WA overall. Not something people always want to do.



Fantastic, but sadly, as a side-effect of the raids, regional cohesion and/or records are often ruined, RMB posts suppressed, nations booted, etc. Why should they go through this hassle?



That's great.

Except the vast majority of RPers and other individuals currently making a fuss aren't actually advocating for the destruction of R/D. Just a way to remove ourselves from it. If you think that we need to be forced into a game we have no interest in playing in order to keep that game going, well....it's not much of a game, no?

And if that's not the case -- that we don't need to be forced into playing R/D -- then simply let people remove themselves entirely. If R/D is as exciting and innovative and fine-tuned as you say, it'll survive just fine. If, however, R/D requires attacking the regions of relatively unwilling participants, then.... again, not much of a game.



Again, a hassle. I use three separate nations, all of which are/have been involved in numerous RPs, written information, factbooks, etc. Why should I go to the hassle of trying to organize and set it up on an entirely separate website, or meticulously save everything on my own computer, when I should simply store it in my region?



(emphasis mine, of course)

Nice generalization. I agree with your sentiments, but the way you worded it means I won't support it at all.



And a fine Friday to all non-Americans.

1. What, is it to much of a hassle2. to join the WA (which takes about 5-10 seconds) and vote against something?
2. On RMB suppression that is pretty much a useless gesture as you can still opt to see the suppressed post.
3. This argument is invalid as there are ways of defending yourselves from even having your password removed as I have already laid out.
4. So you don't wanna do it because it's...inconvenient? Utterly ridiculous, stop being lazy and just copy paste to word, hit control+s, give it a title that says what it is so you don't mix your nations up, and be done with it.
5. I'm honestly not interested in arguing semantics with you.
6. Damn straight, Friday is just awesome.

And I just said 1% to cover for that once in a blue moon (at the most) that it does happen and I don't have an angry mob after me for lying to them or some ridiculousness like that. But again, R/D regions back shit up, our laws, our forum signatures, our dare I say it... RP's that we value. This shit is backed up. So we back all of our stuff up so that IF in the highly unlikely event, something DOES happen and the board is shut down/destroyed, we still have our information. It's just a matter of being willing to put the effort into it. If you're not willing to put the effort preserving it, was it worth it?

1. Hardly that simple, especially considering you have to research into the resolution in order to make sure you're voting correctly. That, and, we shouldn't fucking have to join the WA if we don't want to.

2. I see you ignored literally every other point brought up.

3. What does that have to do with what was said, where did you say what you're claiming, and how the fuck does any of it protect against a WASC "liberation"? Because I honestly don't see it anywhere.

4.

The fucking point is, we shouldn't have to do it in the first place.

[Mekhet]

@The Serbian Empire

Don't try to attribute the way we play the game to how we are in real life, especially if you haven't met us, know us, or have even visited one of our regions off site forums. Come and talk to us, chill out in the IRC, play a few spam games on the forum, participate in one of the RP's that we have before you try and judge the player behind the screen.

You may be nice and chilled out, it doesn't excuse the fact you're forcing everyone else to play your version of the game.

I can be the nicest guy in the world but if I act like a prick and shit on people's parades all day long they will consider me a prick.

but that's the thing, Military Gameplay is seen as a part of the game. Not necessarily "Let's be massive douchetrolls to people". Granted, some may feel that way or want to act that way, but that's not accurate. Think about it this way, Roleplay is Roleplay, but Gameplay is basically a simulation.

You can look at the games issues, categories, the WA and you notice the satire, parody, and not quite RL but something based off of it. For Gameplay folks this is our simulation. Many regions form a simulated government that is distinct enough not to be Roleplay itself (whether you classify it as a branch of RP or not). We have our version of Politics and Military Gameplay, that also like the game itself is not entirely based on RL. Every region that has activity has some sort of community and at the end of the day can be summarized into some larger label; Gameplay, Roleplay, and branches of each if you want to be more specific like Military Gameplay or P2TM, etc.

RPs regions get "harassed" militarily (Not talking about rulebreaking here) and occasionally get destroyed or occupied. Milograd even once said that Roleplay is not entirely compatible with Gameplay to paraphrase. I don't want to see all the RPers be pushed out nor all their "works" and communities be destroyed, and I doubt they'll ever be entirely destroyed.

But, despite being roleplayers, when it comes to having a nation, you are de facto Gameplayers first even if you don't participate in more than just issues, etc. You are to an extent "forced" to participate, that's just game mechanics, whereas no one is "forced" into RP. That is unfortunate, and despite being a raider now and having at times an evil or cynical side, but I don't think RP regions should be able to opt-out. There are many opt outs already; less reliance on the game itself, founders, forums, etc.

It may seem like a bunch of extra work, but it's not if you're prepared.

There once was an argument of founders iirc. I understand that RP regions tend to be psuedo-democracies in the sense that all RPers are equal, except maybe the player RP mods, and usually the Founder is not meant to be a totalitarian being. But everytime an RP region is created and built up, those RPers should realize that keeping the founder nation alive and protecting the region should be an important priority at least where gameplay mechanics come into play. If you can solve that issue, you will effectively be opt-out of the rest of gameplay that you all want to avoid.

If you are founderless, then work with legitimate defender groups to refound if you must.

[Elke and Elba]

You may be nice and chilled out, it doesn't excuse the fact you're forcing everyone else to play your version of the game.

I can be the nicest guy in the world but if I act like a prick and shit on people's parades all day long they will consider me a prick.

but that's the thing, Military Gameplay is seen as a part of the game. Not necessarily "Let's be massive douchetrolls to people". Granted, some may feel that way or want to act that way, but that's not accurate. Think about it this way, Roleplay is Roleplay, but Gameplay is basically a simulation.

You can look at the games issues, categories, the WA and you notice the satire, parody, and not quite RL but something based off of it. For Gameplay folks this is our simulation. Many regions form a simulated government that is distinct enough not to be Roleplay itself (whether you classify it as a branch of RP or not). We have our version of Politics and Military Gameplay, that also like the game itself is not entirely based on RL. Every region that has activity has some sort of community and at the end of the day can be summarized into some larger label; Gameplay, Roleplay, and branches of each if you want to be more specific like Military Gameplay or P2TM, etc.

RPs regions get "harassed" militarily (Not talking about rulebreaking here) and occasionally get destroyed or occupied. Milograd even once said that Roleplay is not entirely compatible with Gameplay to paraphrase. I don't want to see all the RPers be pushed out nor all their "works" and communities be destroyed, and I doubt they'll ever be entirely destroyed.

But, despite being roleplayers, when it comes to having a nation, you are de facto Gameplayers first even if you don't participate in more than just issues, etc. You are to an extent "forced" to participate, that's just game mechanics, whereas no one is "forced" into RP. That is unfortunate, and despite being a raider now and having at times an evil or cynical side, but I don't think RP regions should be able to opt-out. There are many opt outs already; less reliance on the game itself, founders, forums, etc.

It may seem like a bunch of extra work, but it's not if you're prepared.

There once was an argument of founders iirc. I understand that RP regions tend to be psuedo-democracies in the sense that all RPers are equal, except maybe the player RP mods, and usually the Founder is not meant to be a totalitarian being. But everytime an RP region is created and built up, those RPers should realize that keeping the founder nation alive and protecting the region should be an important priority at least where gameplay mechanics come into play. If you can solve that issue, you will effectively be opt-out of the rest of gameplay that you all want to avoid.

If you are founderless, then work with legitimate defender groups to refound if you must.

How does this apply to places like Haven, then? There's no founder to start with.

EDIT: I must repeat myself - no founder ie status is almost like the feeders/sinkers - there is no founder to "restore" whatever. And obviously too dangerous to refound because of the R/D game.

[Parhe]

I've used the word hostile once in this thread and last I checked Unibot wasn't a raider. So tell me again why raiders being hostile makes it okay to be hostile towards him?

Tell me again when did I said that?

I just said you shouldn't be throwing rocks at other people's houses when your own house is made out of glass.

I never said that accusations towards Unibot were justified. I just said that pointing the finger at people and going "oh you're so worse than raiders, and this thread proves it" doesn't amount to much given the opposite has happened for much much longer.

"when your own house is made out of glass" this makes it sound like I'm a raider. As I said before clearly in this thread I am not. Also the time I said hostile was not in my post you responded to. It was another in this thread because I was surprised by how the OP responded to Unibot when Unibot commented about how the OP and others lumped raiders and defenders together.

Also I didn't say that either. Well I did but guess what. It is true that a handful of individuals here and the draft thread, regardless of being raider or defender or roleplayer, are acting worse than most raiders I've spoken to do. I've been raided once before, by Carta and a bunch of RP'ers working with some raiders, when I had no interest in the game. Being raided isn't fun but that doesn't mean all raiders are bad or "indecent" people.

[Mekhet]

but that's the thing, Military Gameplay is seen as a part of the game. Not necessarily "Let's be massive douchetrolls to people". Granted, some may feel that way or want to act that way, but that's not accurate. Think about it this way, Roleplay is Roleplay, but Gameplay is basically a simulation.

You can look at the games issues, categories, the WA and you notice the satire, parody, and not quite RL but something based off of it. For Gameplay folks this is our simulation. Many regions form a simulated government that is distinct enough not to be Roleplay itself (whether you classify it as a branch of RP or not). We have our version of Politics and Military Gameplay, that also like the game itself is not entirely based on RL. Every region that has activity has some sort of community and at the end of the day can be summarized into some larger label; Gameplay, Roleplay, and branches of each if you want to be more specific like Military Gameplay or P2TM, etc.

RPs regions get "harassed" militarily (Not talking about rulebreaking here) and occasionally get destroyed or occupied. Milograd even once said that Roleplay is not entirely compatible with Gameplay to paraphrase. I don't want to see all the RPers be pushed out nor all their "works" and communities be destroyed, and I doubt they'll ever be entirely destroyed.

But, despite being roleplayers, when it comes to having a nation, you are de facto Gameplayers first even if you don't participate in more than just issues, etc. You are to an extent "forced" to participate, that's just game mechanics, whereas no one is "forced" into RP. That is unfortunate, and despite being a raider now and having at times an evil or cynical side, but I don't think RP regions should be able to opt-out. There are many opt outs already; less reliance on the game itself, founders, forums, etc.

It may seem like a bunch of extra work, but it's not if you're prepared.

There once was an argument of founders iirc. I understand that RP regions tend to be psuedo-democracies in the sense that all RPers are equal, except maybe the player RP mods, and usually the Founder is not meant to be a totalitarian being. But everytime an RP region is created and built up, those RPers should realize that keeping the founder nation alive and protecting the region should be an important priority at least where gameplay mechanics come into play. If you can solve that issue, you will effectively be opt-out of the rest of gameplay that you all want to avoid.

If you are founderless, then work with legitimate defender groups to refound if you must.

How does this apply to places like Haven, then? There's no founder to start with.

Refound it. I do believe all regions that aren't GCRs can be refounded. In this case it may be a pain in the ass, I know. It is also risky, even if done stealthily. If that is not an option, then the region must be on-guard whenever there are signs of crashers. In the case of the SC proposal to liberate, fight it. Call on to Defenders and other RPer groups to vote against it. Do a TG campaign if you must.

There are ways for you all to combat these things in the game, with a lot of effort or less effort. It all depends on what is necessary. But, I will use this term specifically, "Bitching" rather than arguing won't help. Do nothing will not help. Asking to opt-out permanently from gameplay effects you don't like, will never happen. The only exceptions are the current tools and ways at your disposal now.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

-snip-

Your entire argument can be condensed into thus:

"I don't care what you think, you by having a nation has to play by my rules"

No, I fucking don't. If I don't want to play your silly game then I don't have to. Just because I am in a playing ground and there's a soccer field in it doesn't mean I have to be forced to play soccer because "it's in the park, you have to play it!" I fucking don't have to play soccer if I don't want to. Same between RPing and Gameplay, I should not be forced to defend my region just because I am in NS; I have more things that take my attention and my time than dealing with you people.

Do you have a point that these are "game mechanics"? Yes. Does that invalidate my freedom to choose not to take part in what I see a waste of time? No.

[Mekhet]

-snip-

Your entire argument can be condensed into thus:

"I don't care what you think, you by having a nation has to play by my rules"

No, I fucking don't. If I don't want to play your silly game then I don't have to. Just because I am in a playing ground and there's a soccer field in it doesn't mean I have to be forced to play soccer because "it's in the park, you have to play it!" I fucking don't have to play soccer if I don't want to. Same between RPing and Gameplay, I should not be forced to defend my region just because I am in NS; I have more things that take my attention and my time than dealing with you people.

Do you have a point that these are "game mechanics"? Yes. Does that invalidate my freedom to choose not to take part in what I see a waste of time? No.

Sorry buddy, but I actually empathize with your plight, regardless how much I may or may not agree or disagree with your feelings or arguments. Don't get all hostile on me, because I am not your enemy here.

The games has it's own mechanics this is fact, a permanent opt-out is never going to happen which is also fact. This is the truth whether you, myself, or anyone else likes it or not.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Also I didn't say that either. Well I did but guess what. It is true that a handful of individuals here and the draft thread, regardless of being raider or defender or roleplayer, are acting worse than most raiders I've spoken to do. I've been raided once before, by Carta and a bunch of RP'ers working with some raiders, when I had no interest in the game. Being raided isn't fun but that doesn't mean all raiders are bad or "indecent" people.

And like I said before, if someone hits me in the back when I don't want to and then they smile and say "hey I am not a bad person! I actually was playing with you"; don't expect me to have any mercy towards them and not calling them pricks, it is exactly what they'll get from me as a response even if they were playing.

Your personality doesn't define how people see you through your actions. You can't say "I love you and I respect you" while at the same time shitting on their parade.

[Elke and Elba]

Your entire argument can be condensed into thus:

"I don't care what you think, you by having a nation has to play by my rules"

No, I fucking don't. If I don't want to play your silly game then I don't have to. Just because I am in a playing ground and there's a soccer field in it doesn't mean I have to be forced to play soccer because "it's in the park, you have to play it!" I fucking don't have to play soccer if I don't want to. Same between RPing and Gameplay, I should not be forced to defend my region just because I am in NS; I have more things that take my attention and my time than dealing with you people.

Do you have a point that these are "game mechanics"? Yes. Does that invalidate my freedom to choose not to take part in what I see a waste of time? No.

Sorry buddy, but I actually empathize with your plight, regardless how much I may or may not agree or disagree with your feelings or arguments. Don't get all hostile on me, because I am not your enemy here.

The games has it's own mechanics this is fact, a permanent opt-out is never going to happen which is also fact. This is the truth whether you, myself, or anyone else likes it or not.

I'd say, don't stuff your mouth full of words that you might have to throw out one day.

Max isn't going to care about the R/D game insofar if it's going to cost him a larger part of the NS populace.

[Nephmir]

If I may make a suggestion:

Perhaps post-destruction interceptions should be prohibited? As in only the last person that was in a region before it CTEd is allowed to refound the region until the next update, when anyone is allowed to refound it. That, combined with ROs, might do the trick. Would that work?

[Coraxion]

When reading and participating to this endless discussion, I've got pretty clear picture what I gonna suggest for next targetting priorities, and only for helping RPers find the ways to Opt Out from the aspects of the game they don't like... and cannot see and/or Accept. If it requires some 'catastrophic' happenings here and there, so be it.

I'm roleplayer myself too.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Sorry buddy, but I actually empathize with your plight, regardless how much I may or may not agree or disagree with your feelings or arguments. Don't get all hostile on me, because I am not your enemy here.

The games has it's own mechanics this is fact, a permanent opt-out is never going to happen which is also fact. This is the truth whether you, myself, or anyone else likes it or not.

I know, but that is the same line I've heard recited whenever I was bullied back in school. It gets tiring after hearing it for 18 years, and then having to hear it back as an adult.

And that is the truth, however it doesn't mean that line of logic is justifiable; it's not.