Concern about actions undertaken by Moderator

[Questers]

Welcome to Gameplay, everyone. By our definition of trolling re: Gameplay and as per standard Gameplay precedent, none of this is trolling and therefore none of it is actionable and therefore more like than not no action will be taken. If I can RP no differently than I have since before I was a mod (long time ago, admittedly), then Mall can Gameplay just like he did before he became a mod. The only other option would be that he'd act through a puppet, at which point suddenly he'd be (rightfully) either accused of hiding his identity as a mod or applying a fig leaf to the situation.

That's all there is to it.

Nobody is contesting that he can play the game. We are contesting that he can openly and knowingly offend our entire community without reprisal. I don't understand why this point just keeps being ignored.

[Mini Miehm]

Welcome to Gameplay, everyone. By our definition of trolling re: Gameplay and as per standard Gameplay precedent, none of this is trolling and therefore none of it is actionable and therefore more like than not no action will be taken. If I can RP no differently than I have since before I was a mod (long time ago, admittedly), then Mall can Gameplay just like he did before he became a mod. The only other option would be that he'd act through a puppet, at which point suddenly he'd be (rightfully) either accused of hiding his identity as a mod or applying a fig leaf to the situation.

That's all there is to it.

I would accuse any player of trolling, mod or no, for doing what he did. This action was taken with the calculated intent to start an argument between the roleplay and gameplay communities. He sought out a confrontaton, and manufactured one for his own amusement. It is the very definition of trolling on these boards. His mod status has nothing to do with the fact that he did it, beyond acting as a compounding factor. Better behavior is expected of the moderators than is expected of us. Whether he was a mod or not at the time he did it, and whether he was acting in his capacity as a mod or not at the time of the act, his intent was clear and unmistakable. He wanted to harass the roleplay community, and he got his wish. This sort of behavior cannot be permitted to stand, in anyone, mod or otherwise.

[Edlichbury]

Welcome to Gameplay, everyone. By our definition of trolling re: Gameplay and as per standard Gameplay precedent, none of this is trolling and therefore none of it is actionable and therefore more like than not no action will be taken. If I can RP no differently than I have since before I was a mod (long time ago, admittedly), then Mall can Gameplay just like he did before he became a mod. The only other option would be that he'd act through a puppet, at which point suddenly he'd be (rightfully) either accused of hiding his identity as a mod or applying a fig leaf to the situation.

That's all there is to it.

The central issue is that despite acting as a player, Mall has knowingly and deliberately inflamed tensions between multiple sections of the community. Even should we accept that there is no violation of mod powers, which I will agree there is not, is it appropriate for a moderator in any context, whether acting at that moment as a moderator or not, to deliberately create tension between large sections of the community? If the assumption is that mods should be able to act entirely as players, then why bother? What exactly sets them apart and makes them people the community should respect or listen too? If moderation wishes to maintain legitimacy, then they should hold themselves to a higher code of conduct than your average player and that would logically include not making actions like these where the effect is to reignite anger and tension in the community as a whole.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

Welcome to Gameplay, everyone. By our definition of trolling re: Gameplay and as per standard Gameplay precedent, none of this is trolling and therefore none of it is actionable and therefore more like than not no action will be taken. If I can RP no differently than I have since before I was a mod (long time ago, admittedly), then Mall can Gameplay just like he did before he became a mod.

Then maybe it's time we change that standard to fit the reality of the situation.
You cannot divorce Mod-hood from the player, once Mod-hood has been conferred. Once you agree to assume the red-text name, you cannot escape your being perceived as a Mod, not should you be. That's a crucial part of the inherent responsibility of it.
And once you do that, you become responsible for MODERATING the community. You work to keep things under control, to keep people calm and reasonable and getting along.
Actions like these - that are deliberately intended to re-open a debate that Moderation DAMN well knows pisses people right the fuck off, in full light of "precedent" - are absolutely not in the spirit of any working definition of "moderation". Maybe he didn't break the rules (I think it verges on a knife-edge, myself), but Mal isn't exactly acting in good faith either - and isn't acting as a competent Mod should be.

[The Batorys]

Welcome to Gameplay, everyone. By our definition of trolling re: Gameplay and as per standard Gameplay precedent, none of this is trolling and therefore none of it is actionable and therefore more like than not no action will be taken. If I can RP no differently than I have since before I was a mod (long time ago, admittedly), then Mall can Gameplay just like he did before he became a mod. The only other option would be that he'd act through a puppet, at which point suddenly he'd be (rightfully) either accused of hiding his identity as a mod or applying a fig leaf to the situation.

That's all there is to it.

Nobody is contesting that he can play the game. We are contesting that he can openly and knowingly offend our entire community without reprisal. I don't understand why this point just keeps being ignored.

Precisely.

His actions constitute trolling.

Blatant trolling at that.

[Kylarnatia]

Welcome to Gameplay, everyone. By our definition of trolling re: Gameplay and as per standard Gameplay precedent, none of this is trolling and therefore none of it is actionable and therefore more like than not no action will be taken. If I can RP no differently than I have since before I was a mod (long time ago, admittedly), then Mall can Gameplay just like he did before he became a mod. The only other option would be that he'd act through a puppet, at which point suddenly he'd be (rightfully) either accused of hiding his identity as a mod or applying a fig leaf to the situation.

That's all there is to it.

So, you're saying that it's alright to harass a peaceful roleplay region who has opted out of gameplay? Yet, of course, we're actually not allowed to opt out of gameplay, because apparently we sign up to that whether we like it or not. Roleplaying however...

This whole affair isn't about whether he has a right to participate in raiding or not. He does. So long as it's legitimate. Presently (I don't know if you've been following any of this), but nothing Mallorea has even produced proves that Haven is even a plausible target for his actions, let alone a legitimate one. When we've asked for the evidence to be shown, at which point if it was legitimate I'm pretty sure the situation would be resolved, he refuses to do so. Apparently, that's politics. I say it's fire-starting. How do you possibly think this matter is going to calm itself if nobody is getting anywhere, and we all hide behind smoke screens?

I will continue to fight - as will others - to have Mallorea and Riva removed from the moderation team until we're otherwise satisfied that he's suitable for such a posting. If you expect us to give up on that before we are satisfied, I have one thing to say to you.

That's politics.

[Minnysota]

I bet if Mall wasn't a mod he would have been warned for trolling.

[Feazanthia]

Welcome to Gameplay, everyone. By our definition of trolling re: Gameplay and as per standard Gameplay precedent, none of this is trolling and therefore none of it is actionable and therefore more like than not no action will be taken. If I can RP no differently than I have since before I was a mod (long time ago, admittedly), then Mall can Gameplay just like he did before he became a mod. The only other option would be that he'd act through a puppet, at which point suddenly he'd be (rightfully) either accused of hiding his identity as a mod or applying a fig leaf to the situation.

That's all there is to it.

With all due respect, Scolo, it does not seem so simple to us; simply saying "Welcome to gameplay" simply reinforces the notion that RP must kowtow to R/D gameplay when none of us signed up for it (but that's another matter for a different thread).

There are two parts to this. There is the incident a while back (of which I have no direct knowledge, only hearsay, so I shall say no more on it) and the current situation. The RP community, including a good portion of the II and P2TM Mentors have accused Mall of directly targeting the Roleplay community and purposely inciting them into, well, the current situation. The fact that there are so many of us being so vocal about this (at 10:00PM EDT on American Independence Day Eve, no less) should tell you that there is an issue that warrants more than a "lol it's gameplay DWI" response.

And, again with respect, it is different now that you're a moderator. Your posts will be looked at with a different air. You are, whether you want to admit it or not, speaking for the Mod team when you post anything. You may not agree, but that's how the layperson on the boards sees it. And I must disagree, had Mall used a puppet, there would be people arguing now that he did so in order to be seen as not giving implicit Moderator approval to the plan to expose the RP community to the R/D community's shenanigans. And given the checkered history between the Moderator Team and the RP community, it is not too much of a logical leap for many to make to glean implicit Mod approval for "poking the RPers because they're complacent".

[Aurora Confederacy]

I would accuse any player of trolling, mod or no, for doing what he did. This action was taken with the calculated intent to start an argument between the roleplay and gameplay communities. He sought out a confrontaton, and manufactured one for his own amusement. It is the very definition of trolling on these boards. His mod status has nothing to do with the fact that he did it, beyond acting as a compounding factor. Better behavior is expected of the moderators than is expected of us. Whether he was a mod or not at the time he did it, and whether he was acting in his capacity as a mod or not at the time of the act, his intent was clear and unmistakable. He wanted to harass the roleplay community, and he got his wish. This sort of behavior cannot be permitted to stand, in anyone, mod or otherwise.

Watching that thread closely, I definately see that Mall or what ever his name is, by definition of the thread and the rules of this forum here-in, has carried out a gramd troll. If I were to do that kind of thread Id be skirting a ban, possibly dancing with the devil whilst doing so. Therefore I believe that action must therefore be taken with respect to the trolling by Mallorea and Riva.

[Virana]

I mean, it's tough not to call it trolling when the entire justification to the resolution is "raiders can do more with Haven than its current members can" (as evidenced by this).

[San-Silvacian]

I bet if Mall wasn't a mod he would have been warned for trolling.

Pretty much sums up the entire thread and the issues with the mods curtailing the RP community.

[Rephesus]

Is the Site Administration not even the slightest bit concerned that a massive multi-base argument that is resulting in rampant rule violation and allienation of Nationstates users is not only occurring as we speak with little in the form of administrative position (in terms of whether it's okay to abuse liberation to fuel a personal vendetta) but also has been started by a Moderator in his 'capacity as a player'.

Moderators are meant to be examples to the community, having one abuse the liberation function if the SC so he can fulfill a personnel Vendetta against an RP region is ludicrous in my opinion, does the administration want to weigh in on this?

[Reploid Productions]

Okay, cutting this off before we get a full blown lynch mob baying for blood.

Mallorea is not going to be removed from his moderation position, warned, banned, deleted, DOSed, or otherwise censured over his liberation proposal. [violet] is aware of the situation and has spoken to the team, however none of the actions taken are in violation of either the site rules or an abuse of mod power. Whether or not Mallorea would be advised to use a non-moderator puppet for future gameplay purposes has not been decided, but even if it is eventually decided that Mallorea should not use his mod account in gameplay, we are not going to retroactively punish for something that was allowed at the time it was done.

Given that this thread has amply aired the relevant concerns, the admin is fully aware of the situation, and leaving this open is just going to inflame everybody further, I think we're done here. I understand that there is substantial frustration regarding roleplay regions getting dragged into Gameplay, but fixing that is beyond the scope of the moderator toolkit, and any technical solution is going to require the time and skills of the techies, because putting moderation back into the middle of the subjective mess that is gameplay and R/D politics will not end well for anyone involved: that way lies madness.


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Admin
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku