[DISCUSSION] Should there be a gameside age limit?

[The Leningrad Union]

I believe that players should have to be at least 13 to access the entire NationStates website, here's why:

-Regional Message Board is arguably a forum, so kids should not be able to access it with any extra privilege than they would on the regular forums.
-Telegramming is in many ways a social feature, it can be abused and it may not be the best idea to allow a pre-teen to message with strangers over the internet.
-Issues may contain mature content that children younger than 13 may not be exposed to yet, such as STDs, abortion, etc.
-Pre-teens or "tweenagers" generally act in an immature manner that brings down the quality of our community.

Please share what you think and feel free to add your agreements/objections to my reasoning.

[Empire of Narnia]

I actually think they should have an option for players to not receive "mature" issues. I know that Class regions have that feature, but it would be a nice thing to implement for all players that want to avoid the more adult-orientated issues.

[EverywhereAndNowhere]

I actually think they should have an option for players to not receive "mature" issues. I know that Class regions have that feature, but it would be a nice thing to implement for all players that want to avoid the more adult-orientated issues.

I actually think that's a great idea... I'd be above any kind of age requirement, but I'd still prefer to avoid some of the more mature issues...

[EverywhereAndNowhere]

Aside from the issues though, you have to realize that, this is the internet... If there are people of a young age on this site, us blocking info won't keep them from getting it elsewhere... I'm sorry if I'm not explaining myself well enough.

[The Leningrad Union]

Aside from the issues though, you have to realize that, this is the internet... If there are people of a young age on this site, us blocking info won't keep them from getting it elsewhere... I'm sorry if I'm not explaining myself well enough.

There's no harm in trying. We already have the rule for the forums and I see no reason not to extend it to the whole website.

[Empire of Narnia]

Another thing is that this is pretty much impossible to enforce. The better thing would be to just have the option to block out mature issues. I'm past the age limit, but I would still like that feature if it was implemented.

[Todd McCloud]

Nationstates TOS says you need to be 13 or older to be on the forums. Rest appears to be fair game. We do have high school classes that play this game and run regions independent of inter regional affairs, but by and large, the way I see it, is the following:

- it's tough to enforce an age policy
- questionable material on RMBs should be reported via the getting help page. Mods will take appropriate action
- same goes with telegramming. Get an offensive telegram, report it. FWIW I believe game mods can read TG's anyway.
- From what I've seen, any information gleaned from the issues could be taken just the same from a high school textbook or skimming a wikipedia page. Or heck, watching a few national news programs.
- I've seen lots of people older than pre-teen act very immature; I don't think age is the absolute divider here

[The Leningrad Union]

Another thing is that this is pretty much impossible to enforce. The better thing would be to just have the option to block out mature issues. I'm past the age limit, but I would still like that feature if it was implemented.

If it's unenforceable, then why is it a forum rule?

Sure, some underage users will slip through the cracks but if they say they are under 13, they get tempbanned until their birthday. Even if it was impossible to enforce, what's the harm in making an effort to protect the kids from mature content?

[Empire of Narnia]

Another thing is that this is pretty much impossible to enforce. The better thing would be to just have the option to block out mature issues. I'm past the age limit, but I would still like that feature if it was implemented.

If it's unenforceable, then why is it a forum rule?

Sure, some underage users will slip through the cracks but if they say they are under 13, they get tempbanned until their birthday. Even if it was impossible to enforce, what's the harm in making an effort to protect the kids from mature content?

I believe it has something to do with an American law actually, but I'm not an expert on it.

[Platypus Reborn]

Well, it doesn't really matter if they enforce an age limit, because they'll just lie about their age. Plus 12 year olds would find no fun in this site. And this is a political simulation ("game"). So I would say the random forumers would have to go first (Mature Content, Swearers, Bronies).

[The Leningrad Union]

If it's unenforceable, then why is it a forum rule?

Sure, some underage users will slip through the cracks but if they say they are under 13, they get tempbanned until their birthday. Even if it was impossible to enforce, what's the harm in making an effort to protect the kids from mature content?

I believe it has something to do with an American law actually, but I'm not an expert on it.

It is and that's part of my argument about RMB and TG. RMB is no different than a forum thread.

[Empire of Narnia]

I believe it has something to do with an American law actually, but I'm not an expert on it.

It is and that's part of my argument about RMB and TG. RMB is no different than a forum thread.

I thought the RMB had stricter rules about what could be posted. It has a swear filter for one, which is something the forum could use.

I do get your point about some of the game features and issues being inappropriate for kids under 13. The issues can touch on some more mature subjects.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Do you have a workable way this could be enforced along with your suggestion? Given what I know of the system (which admittedly isn't nearly enough to offer a complete answer), I'm not sure that this could be done as suggested and added onto by several, that wouldn't require an inordinate amount of coding.

It still relies on player honesty. I very much doubt we'll be seeing any age verification programs running on here in the near future, such as those you might see on adult or pay sites so ...

[Empire of Narnia]

Do you have a workable way this could be enforced along with your suggestion? Given what I know of the system (which admittedly isn't nearly enough to offer a complete answer), I'm not sure that this could be done as suggested and added onto by several, that wouldn't require an inordinate amount of coding.

It still relies on player honesty. I very much doubt we'll be seeing any age verification programs running on here in the near future, such as those you might see on adult or pay sites so ...

What about the idea of opting out of mature issues? I believe designated classroom nations wouldn't get issues designated as mature so the code is mostly already there. It seems like it could be easy to just add a little checkbox to opt-out.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Ok ... and having the player opt out 'protects' younger players how? Again, you're relying on player honesty. That option would accomplish nothing. Especially as you can already opt out of issues entirely. End of problem. Not that we have that terribly of 'adult' issues to begin with, all arguments to the contrary aside.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

No, there should not be a gameside age limit.

1: If a kid really wants to get on NationStates, they can just lie about their age. It ain't hard. Trying to keep underage people out of NS would be incredibly hard to enforce.

2: There isn't exactly anything too "mature" about the gameside part of NS. Abortion, STD's, sexuality; there isn't anything on NS that kids wouldn't have seen on TV anyway.

3: Unless they fill region RMBs with spammy comments or send obnoxious telegrams to people, they don't really do any harm, and there's no reason to stop them from using the gameside parts of NS.

[Contrapositopiopolis]

Aside from the issues though, you have to realize that, this is the internet... If there are people of a young age on this site, us blocking info won't keep them from getting it elsewhere... I'm sorry if I'm not explaining myself well enough.

I agree with this. But I personally think that issues about STD's and abortion are fine as long as the issue doesn't explain what STD's are or how to get them. Also abortion issues are, in my opinion, a great issue to improve (or the opposite) civil rights or something related to that, so long as the author of the issue doesn't emphasize one particular view too much. For I am personally against abortion, I think that it is straight up murder. If I were the author of an abortion issue and I wanted to convey that, I would balance the issue with an equally strong counterargument.

[Contrapositopiopolis]

Aside from the issues though, you have to realize that, this is the internet... If there are people of a young age on this site, us blocking info won't keep them from getting it elsewhere... I'm sorry if I'm not explaining myself well enough.

There's no harm in trying. We already have the rule for the forums and I see no reason not to extend it to the whole website.

And your signature helps your point

[Frisbeeteria]

We already have the rule for the forums and I see no reason not to extend it to the whole website.

It's not a "rule", it's part of the TOS. The terms of service were written by Max Barry. He wanted younger players to be able to participate, so gameside is wide open. He wanted to abide by some US laws, so he put a restriction on forum use. You can discuss it all you want, but player and/or moderator opinion is irrelevant. It's a Site Owner decision, and that's just the way it is.

[The Leningrad Union]

We already have the rule for the forums and I see no reason not to extend it to the whole website.

It's not a "rule", it's part of the TOS. The terms of service were written by Max Barry. He wanted younger players to be able to participate, so gameside is wide open. He wanted to abide by some US laws, so he put a restriction on forum use. You can discuss it all you want, but player and/or moderator opinion is irrelevant. It's a Site Owner decision, and that's just the way it is.

Thanks for the reply. Do you think he'd be open to any ideas/suggestions or is it just the way it is now?

[The Leningrad Union]

Do you have a workable way this could be enforced along with your suggestion? Given what I know of the system (which admittedly isn't nearly enough to offer a complete answer), I'm not sure that this could be done as suggested and added onto by several, that wouldn't require an inordinate amount of coding.

It still relies on player honesty. I very much doubt we'll be seeing any age verification programs running on here in the near future, such as those you might see on adult or pay sites so ...

Doesn't the forum rely on that too? I don't see why it would be any different if it were implemented into the gameside.

[Frisbeeteria]

Do you think he'd be open to any ideas/suggestions or is it just the way it is now?

I think you've got a solution in search of a problem, and it's not something I'm interested in taking up with him. Absent an actual, documented, enforceable problem with our age controls, I'd say chances of a change are slim to none.

[Draica]

Here's what I love about NationStates.

There are actually many bright, interesting, intelligent teenagers on this website. I can not say the same about those in my high school, or most of those.

[The Leningrad Union]

Do you think he'd be open to any ideas/suggestions or is it just the way it is now?

I think you've got a solution in search of a problem, and it's not something I'm interested in taking up with him. Absent an actual, documented, enforceable problem with our age controls, I'd say chances of a change are slim to none.

Thanks anyway.

Here's what I love about NationStates.

There are actually many bright, interesting, intelligent teenagers on this website. I can not say the same about those in my high school, or most of those.

This would remove little kids, not teenagers.

[Roasaria]

I don't see "twelvie"s as "little kids", I say little kids are in the 0-8 range. Surprisingly, I tend to see some "twelvies" in my neighborhood act mature and sensible. I also don't see why they cant be exposed to mature content. It's good that they are exposed to tough real life situations that tests their ways of thinking. I don't think we should get rid of the twelvies from the game-side, I just think we should just remove the insensible ones.