Moderation staffing levels discussion

[Die Erworbenen Namen]

Hey, don't know if it's off topic, but on Bez's point number 5:

If mods are having trouble seeing from the players point of view, it would be logical to have set player representatives to sort of... talk to the mods about what precisely Player A is doing.
Then again, Mods were players at one point, too....

True, but when "one point" is almost ten years go (for some, OVER ten years ago), there's a distance there that's not only noticeable, but unavoidably so.

Check my edit above.

(BTW, clever flag...)

[Euroslavia]

If I may ask a few questions for everyone:

1) What areas of the forum do you believe are underrepresented?
2) What areas of the forum do you believe are accurately represented?
3) What would adding more moderators, at this current point, help us accomplish in terms of adjustments to our adapting policy with the up and coming discussion threads?
4) How do you feel about the Moderation forum? A bit of a before and after with the forum changes.
5) What would you say is our greatest strength? Greatest weakness?
6) How do you feel about the most recent adaptation of The One-Stop Rules Shop?
7) What is your favorite pizza topping?

1: Does "late nights EST" count as an area of the forum?
2: P2TM's doing pretty damn good.
3: Above all else, getting someone who's part of the playerbase into the other side, so it isn't "the old and exclusive moderators separated from the rifted playerbase". This isn't as much of a problem now as it was this time last year, but it's still apparently.
4: I feel like this was overall a positive change, but I doubt it will last.
5: The moderation staff is strong when it needs to be. Problem is, they're also strong when they don't need to be.
Other than that, greatest weakness is that nobody seems to look at things from the players' point(s) of view.
6: Logical rules were removed and illogical rules were retained. I don't like it; it was better before.
7: Stinky tofu.

1: That's an issue as well, thank you for bringing that up. A question for everyone else, what time zones do you believe could be better represented? The one Bezombia brought up is a very valid point. There have been time sensitive issues that come up that could be resolved quicker.
2: Agreed. The thing about P2TM is that there's very minimal issues there and the players seem to self-moderate themselves. It's refreshing.
3. *nod* Makes sense.
4. I hope it opens up even more. If I posted the way I did before I became a moderator at this current time, I would've received multiple bans for spamming Moderation. Just my opinion as a player, but the aura that was Moderation at that time was what I'd love to see it become again.
5. Noted. Are there any specific areas where you feel that we're way too heavy-handed? I'd love to know so that we can explore options in changing Moderation to become more of a friendly, non-separated group from the playerbase.
6. If I may ask, what rules do you believe are illogical?
7. I've actually never had tofu before. Hmm... perhaps a visit to the local grocery will happen.

[Die Erworbenen Namen]

1: Does "late nights EST" count as an area of the forum?
2: P2TM's doing pretty damn good.
3: Above all else, getting someone who's part of the playerbase into the other side, so it isn't "the old and exclusive moderators separated from the rifted playerbase". This isn't as much of a problem now as it was this time last year, but it's still apparently.
4: I feel like this was overall a positive change, but I doubt it will last.
5: The moderation staff is strong when it needs to be. Problem is, they're also strong when they don't need to be.
Other than that, greatest weakness is that nobody seems to look at things from the players' point(s) of view.
6: Logical rules were removed and illogical rules were retained. I don't like it; it was better before.
7: Stinky tofu.

1: That's an issue as well, thank you for bringing that up. A question for everyone else, what time zones do you believe could be better represented? The one Bezombia brought up is a very valid point. There have been time sensitive issues that come up that could be resolved quicker.
2: Agreed. The thing about P2TM is that there's very minimal issues there and the players seem to self-moderate themselves. It's refreshing.
3. *nod* Makes sense.
4. I hope it opens up even more. If I posted the way I did before I became a moderator at this current time, I would've received multiple bans for spamming Moderation. Just my opinion as a player, but the aura that was Moderation at that time was what I'd love to see it become again.
5. Noted. Are there any specific areas where you feel that we're way too heavy-handed? I'd love to know so that we can explore options in changing Moderation to become more of a friendly, non-separated group from the playerbase.
6. If I may ask, what rules do you believe are illogical?
7. I've actually never had tofu before. Hmm... perhaps a visit to the local grocery will happen.

Euro, just a question. Would it help if there was a moderator from every time zone used by NS? Just as a general covering, you know? Not just 24 or 25 mods, but 24 or 25 NS staff members (mods and up) running the site, so it would almost be 24/7?

[Esternial]

1) What areas (II, General, PoTM, Gameplay, etc.) of the forum do you believe are underrepresented?
In terms of Moderators, I'd go with P2TM. Though the community tends to behave, reducing the need for a large team of Mods like NSG needs. They've got a good team of Mentors now, so one or two Mods to oversee it all should be enough, and I believe you and Jenrak are capable of the task.

Of course, II could also use another Jenrak or Euroslavia Jr. (is Nappy also still active there?)

2) What areas (II, General, PoTM, Gameplay, etc.) of the forum do you believe are accurately represented?
P2TM has lagged behind in terms of getting a say in Gameplay mechanics, something that became apparent during my participating in the R&D Summit, though the community has really stepped up and has shown that they're capable of having their voices heard, though their influence may be minnow compared to II. I'd say it's very close to maturing into a forum that can - so to speak - exist and operate independently, which is something that I believe is highly beneficial to Moderation, as they can appoint certain Mods to certain forums.

3) What would adding more moderators, at this current point, help us accomplish in terms of adjustments to our adapting policy with the up and coming discussion threads?
Well, it would lighten your workload, which may increase as a result of future suggestions, in which case the issue "the workload would be too heavy" might become a slightly less big issue.

4) How do you feel about the Moderation forum? A bit of a before and after with the forum changes.
Love-hate, I guess. I can understand certain actions being taken sometimes, but in other cases I don't. I only have my own perspective to work with, so that may be one of the reasons that I sometimes don't agree/understand. Sometimes I feel that too much is expected from Moderation, which negatively impacts its staff when they're forced to live up to such high expectations.

5) What would you say is our greatest strength? Greatest weakness?
You probably care more than you should, which is both your greatest strength and weakness. Sometimes a detached figure of authority makes more objective rulings, but either extreme isn't preferable to the other, and trying to balance in between of the two is tricky indeed.

6) How do you feel about the most recent adaptation of The One-Stop Rules Shop?
It keeps getting improved, which can only be a good thing. Adding more nuances would definitely help.

7) What is your favorite pizza topping?

[Nazi Flower Power]

If mods are having trouble seeing from the players point of view, it would be logical to have set player representatives to sort of... talk to the mods about what precisely Player A is doing.

I don't think this would help. You'd just get people complaining when they don't feel that their personal opinions are being adequately represented by the player representatives.

Now that we are allowed to have discussions in Moderation, everyone can talk to mods without creating another level of hierarchy.

[Die Erworbenen Namen]

If mods are having trouble seeing from the players point of view, it would be logical to have set player representatives to sort of... talk to the mods about what precisely Player A is doing.

I don't think this would help. You'd just get people complaining when they don't feel that their personal opinions are being adequately represented by the player representatives.

Now that we are allowed to have discussions in Moderation, everyone can talk to mods without creating another level of hierarchy.

I did think about that when I posted it...

Then again, the quoted post content COULD be helped by putting a new mod into the moderation team.

[Euroslavia]

1: That's an issue as well, thank you for bringing that up. A question for everyone else, what time zones do you believe could be better represented? The one Bezombia brought up is a very valid point. There have been time sensitive issues that come up that could be resolved quicker.
2: Agreed. The thing about P2TM is that there's very minimal issues there and the players seem to self-moderate themselves. It's refreshing.
3. *nod* Makes sense.
4. I hope it opens up even more. If I posted the way I did before I became a moderator at this current time, I would've received multiple bans for spamming Moderation. Just my opinion as a player, but the aura that was Moderation at that time was what I'd love to see it become again.
5. Noted. Are there any specific areas where you feel that we're way too heavy-handed? I'd love to know so that we can explore options in changing Moderation to become more of a friendly, non-separated group from the playerbase.
6. If I may ask, what rules do you believe are illogical?
7. I've actually never had tofu before. Hmm... perhaps a visit to the local grocery will happen.

Euro, just a question. Would it help if there was a moderator from every time zone used by NS? Just as a general covering, you know? Not just 24 or 25 mods, but 24 or 25 NS staff members (mods and up) running the site, so it would almost be 24/7?

It certainly would help. I wouldn't necessarily say we need one from each time zone, but having more of a variety in the areas that we lack would be an improvement.

[Bezombia]

1: Does "late nights EST" count as an area of the forum?
2: P2TM's doing pretty damn good.
3: Above all else, getting someone who's part of the playerbase into the other side, so it isn't "the old and exclusive moderators separated from the rifted playerbase". This isn't as much of a problem now as it was this time last year, but it's still apparently.
4: I feel like this was overall a positive change, but I doubt it will last.
5: The moderation staff is strong when it needs to be. Problem is, they're also strong when they don't need to be.
Other than that, greatest weakness is that nobody seems to look at things from the players' point(s) of view.
6: Logical rules were removed and illogical rules were retained. I don't like it; it was better before.
7: Stinky tofu.

1: That's an issue as well, thank you for bringing that up. A question for everyone else, what time zones do you believe could be better represented? The one Bezombia brought up is a very valid point. There have been time sensitive issues that come up that could be resolved quicker.
2: Agreed. The thing about P2TM is that there's very minimal issues there and the players seem to self-moderate themselves. It's refreshing.
3. *nod* Makes sense.
4. I hope it opens up even more. If I posted the way I did before I became a moderator at this current time, I would've received multiple bans for spamming Moderation. Just my opinion as a player, but the aura that was Moderation at that time was what I'd love to see it become again.
5. Noted. Are there any specific areas where you feel that we're way too heavy-handed? I'd love to know so that we can explore options in changing Moderation to become more of a friendly, non-separated group from the playerbase.
6. If I may ask, what rules do you believe are illogical?
7. I've actually never had tofu before. Hmm... perhaps a visit to the local grocery will happen.

5: Mainly in giving disproportionately harsh sentences for minor infractions. Without venturing into "Posting a picture outside the image restrictions shouldn't be worth a DEAT and week long ban" territory...well, actually that's a perfect eample.
6: Trollnaming. "Rules lawerying" is a close second.
7: It's a Vietnamese delicacy.

[Die Erworbenen Namen]

Euro, just a question. Would it help if there was a moderator from every time zone used by NS? Just as a general covering, you know? Not just 24 or 25 mods, but 24 or 25 NS staff members (mods and up) running the site, so it would almost be 24/7?

It certainly would help. I wouldn't necessarily say we need one from each time zone, but having more of a variety in the areas that we lack would be an improvement.

Well, by each time zone, I mean a general area, sort of like, oh, lets have three in the USA area, four in blah blah blah, etc. That way those time sensitive things could be done quickly and efficiently, and we don't have to keep the Mods awake all night long to fix things.

[Esternial]

Euro, just a question. Would it help if there was a moderator from every time zone used by NS? Just as a general covering, you know? Not just 24 or 25 mods, but 24 or 25 NS staff members (mods and up) running the site, so it would almost be 24/7?

It certainly would help. I wouldn't necessarily say we need one from each time zone, but having more of a variety in the areas that we lack would be an improvement.

Maybe you could introduce some kind of time-stamping system for a week so you guys can monitor eachother's activity and see when particular Mods are online, allowing you to draft a rough schedule featuring what hours they're likely to be on, what hours they are less frequently to be on and what hours they're off the grid and presumably being waterboarded by the NSA.

...and then check what time zones need more special attention.

[Vicious Debaters]

If I may ask a few questions for everyone:

I like this kind of thing.

1) What areas of the forum do you believe are underrepresented?

Arts and Fiction is underused.

I am of the proud and hearty raiderfolk, and I'm slightly worried that the mods might discriminate against our great way of life. The mods have currently done an excellent job in not acting on any anti-raider personal opinions and treating us fairly so far, but I see a lot of bad potential in the future.

2) What areas of the forum do you believe are accurately represented?

General, II, and the other roleplaying sub-forums. All seem well represented and divided.

3) What would adding more moderators, at this current point, help us accomplish in terms of adjustments to our adapting policy with the up and coming discussion threads?

We have puh-lenty of moderators. Don't need more.

I would consider creating 'Debate Mentors' in the General forum for people that are really good at debates and willing to mentor others (like the roleplay mentors). There are some people who are held in obvious high esteem, are generally good at debates, and could be used to create a better tone there. I've seen way too many people with controversial opinions who want to argue in a polite and non-ban-inviting way, but who just don't know how to do so.

4) How do you feel about the Moderation forum? A bit of a before and after with the forum changes.

The mods still alternate between being happy friendly people and vicious demonic tunnel-snakes. At least now we can discuss how to improve the website, which is an improvement. As long as you don't lock all the discussion threads and pretend like this never existed, we're good.

5) What would you say is our greatest strength? Greatest weakness?

Our greatest strength is the amount of activity going on, and the people with unique opinions. Our weaknessess are that said controversial people don't last very long, and that long-lasting and awesome NS'ers have been dropping like flies lately.

6) How do you feel about the most recent adaptation of The One-Stop Rules Shop?

Fine, fine.

7) What is your favorite pizza topping?

Pepperoni. That Hawaiian bacon and pineapple stuff is good too.

[Die Erworbenen Namen]

It certainly would help. I wouldn't necessarily say we need one from each time zone, but having more of a variety in the areas that we lack would be an improvement.

Maybe you could introduce some kind of time-stamping system for a week so you guys can monitor eachother's activity and see when particular Mods are online, allowing you to draft a rough schedule featuring what hours they're likely to be on, what hours they are less frequently to be on and what hours they're off the grid and presumably being waterboarded by the NSA.

...and then check what time zones need more special attention.

So, sort of like asking the mods to input a code that A. tracks all the mod's activities, what time's their on, where they're on, etc. and B. creating a visible graph of which time zones are getting used that would only be visible to the mods?

[Bezombia]

Maybe you could introduce some kind of time-stamping system for a week so you guys can monitor eachother's activity and see when particular Mods are online, allowing you to draft a rough schedule featuring what hours they're likely to be on, what hours they are less frequently to be on and what hours they're off the grid and presumably being waterboarded by the NSA.

...and then check what time zones need more special attention.

So, sort of like asking the mods to input a code that A. tracks all the mod's activities, what time's their on, where they're on, etc. and B. creating a visible graph of which time zones are getting used that would only be visible to the mods?

We should do that for the posters too, even if just to see what times are more active.

[Esternial]

So, sort of like asking the mods to input a code that A. tracks all the mod's activities, what time's their on, where they're on, etc. and B. creating a visible graph of which time zones are getting used that would only be visible to the mods?

We should do that for the posters too, even if just to see what times are more active.

Wouldn't be a half-bad idea, though I'm against making this available to the public. I can see it getting abused by trolls and spammers to come out when activity is low.

[Bezombia]

We should do that for the posters too, even if just to see what times are more active.

Wouldn't be a half-bad idea, though I'm against making this available to the public. I can see it getting abused by trolls and spammers to come out when activity is low.

Well, you can already do it yourself if you wanted.

viewonline.php

You could easily just write down the number of online posters every minutes or so and then make a graph in Excel.

[Esternial]

Wouldn't be a half-bad idea, though I'm against making this available to the public. I can see it getting abused by trolls and spammers to come out when activity is low.

Well, you can already do it yourself if you wanted.

viewonline.php

You could easily just write down the number of online posters every minutes or so and then make a graph in Excel.

If I can get someone to write me a program, I will do anything in my power to make that happen. That's what being truly lazy is about.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

5: Mainly in giving disproportionately harsh sentences for minor infractions. Without venturing into "Posting a picture outside the image restrictions shouldn't be worth a DEAT and week long ban" territory...well, actually that's a perfect eample.
6: Trollnaming. "Rules lawerying" is a close second.
7: It's a Vietnamese delicacy.

5: That may be a matter of perspective - seeing as we do look into a player's history, which is something you do not have access to. Your view that something was 'disproportionate' does not mean that this is actually the case.

6: We tend to take that one in stride, given as simply mentioning you think someone may be trolling is not enough to toss you to the gnomes. It was put in to stop the influx of yelling 'TROLL' and contributing nothing else. It continues to be interpreted in that way today.

As for the solution to seeing who is online, we can do that as is, at a glance. YOU may not be able to, but we're aware. Some of us are on at different times, even within our 'usual' timezone, and occasionally outside of it. Worth asking for a roundabout from the group in any case, as to the range they pop on and off between, on average.

[Alyakia]

did max need to vet farn and blaat? or did you guys do it on your own? have they ever talked to max? does he even know of their existence?

(this is just me being nosy please indulge me. it also seems like some of you aren't game moderators but most are, right?)

Please, Max has been aware of my existence since maxchat 5 at least. http://www.nationstates.net/pages/MaxChat5.html and search for 'blaat'.

i can never get in the cool IRC clubs :-(

[Die Erworbenen Namen]

5: Mainly in giving disproportionately harsh sentences for minor infractions. Without venturing into "Posting a picture outside the image restrictions shouldn't be worth a DEAT and week long ban" territory...well, actually that's a perfect eample.
6: Trollnaming. "Rules lawerying" is a close second.
7: It's a Vietnamese delicacy.

5: That may be a matter of perspective - seeing as we do look into a player's history, which is something you do not have access to. Your view that something was 'disproportionate' does not mean that this is actually the case.

6: We tend to take that one in stride, given as simply mentioning you think someone may be trolling is not enough to toss you to the gnomes. It was put in to stop the influx of yelling 'TROLL' and contributing nothing else. It continues to be interpreted in that way today.

As for the solution to seeing who is online, we can do that as is, at a glance. YOU may not be able to, but we're aware. Some of us are on at different times, even within our 'usual' timezone, and occasionally outside of it. Worth asking for a roundabout from the group in any case, as to the range they pop on and off between, on average.

Yeah, just as a general area. Not getting too personal, but also keeping a record of it, so at the end of the week, you can look at it and say, "Hmm, this time zone needs more mods!"

[Nightkill the Emperor]

but its up to moderation to determine when a new moderator is needed, the user community doesn't tell moderation when to do it. it is always better to be proactvive than reactive in herding a group.

If I may ask a few questions for everyone:

1) What areas (II, General, PoTM, Gameplay, etc.) of the forum do you believe are underrepresented?
2) What areas (II, General, PoTM, Gameplay, etc.) of the forum do you believe are accurately represented?
3) What would adding more moderators, at this current point, help us accomplish in terms of adjustments to our adapting policy with the up and coming discussion threads?
4) How do you feel about the Moderation forum? A bit of a before and after with the forum changes.
5) What would you say is our greatest strength? Greatest weakness?
6) How do you feel about the most recent adaptation of The One-Stop Rules Shop?
7) What is your favorite pizza topping?

1) P2TM could use more mentors, but we're getting three or four soon, so I can't complain much. And we handle ourselves well.
2) General, which tends to hog all the attention. Mind, I should feel it should be burnt, so don't take my opinion on it.
3) I don't think it really matters too much, tbh.
4) I've generally been fine with Moderation. My warns and bans in past have been justified. Sometimes the bureaucracy annoys me.
5) Your greatest strength is that you've generally handled a forum this size quite well, with the exception of General, which is cursed. Your greatest weakness would be that you can appear very stiff, if you get my drift. Nobody enjoys a rigid, faceless bureaucracy. Greater transparency would be what I advocate. People get angry and can get the wrong ideas when they genuinely have no idea what's actually going on. And when you start creating that divide, that "other", conflict happens. So loosen up, do more regular posting and rping that isn't solely mod work, etc. It can make you less of a "mod" and more of a person, and people agree more with people they know and like. /ramble
6) I'll give it a read soon.
7) Cheese.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

5) Your greatest strength is that you've generally handled a forum this size quite well, with the exception of General, which is cursed. Your greatest weakness would be that you can appear very stiff, if you get my drift. Nobody enjoys a rigid, faceless bureaucracy. Greater transparency would be what I advocate. People get angry and can get the wrong ideas when they genuinely have no idea what's actually going on. And when you start creating that divide, that "other", conflict happens. So loosen up, do more regular posting and rping that isn't solely mod work, etc. It can make you less of a "mod" and more of a person, and people agree more with people they know and like. /ramble

This is where we can't seem to win, sadly enough. We joke, people take advantage of it and seem to think we're no longer worth listening to when we put on the mod hat. Or we get taken to task when the tone is light and someone feels it is inappropriate. We joke all the time, hang out with regular players, have since god knows when. Myself, I actually mellowed when modded.

Yeah, give you time to let that one sink in. It's a shock, I know.

This boils down to an interpretation that is always going to be 'in the eye of the beholder', I'm afraid. Depends on who sees what posts, where, and when. Isn't really a good view of some of us overall, if only one aspect is seen.

Pretty much goes for anyone participating on the site, that.

[Esternial]

5) Your greatest strength is that you've generally handled a forum this size quite well, with the exception of General, which is cursed. Your greatest weakness would be that you can appear very stiff, if you get my drift. Nobody enjoys a rigid, faceless bureaucracy. Greater transparency would be what I advocate. People get angry and can get the wrong ideas when they genuinely have no idea what's actually going on. And when you start creating that divide, that "other", conflict happens. So loosen up, do more regular posting and rping that isn't solely mod work, etc. It can make you less of a "mod" and more of a person, and people agree more with people they know and like. /ramble

This is where we can't seem to win, sadly enough. We joke, people take advantage of it and seem to think we're no longer worth listening to when we put on the mod hat. Or we get taken to task when the tone is light and someone feels it is inappropriate. We joke all the time, hang out with regular players, have since god knows when. Myself, I actually mellowed when modded.

Yeah, give you time to let that one sink in. It's a shock, I know.

This boils down to an interpretation that is always going to be 'in the eye of the beholder', I'm afraid. Depends on who sees what posts, where, and when. Isn't really a good view of some of us overall, if only one aspect is seen.

Pretty much goes for anyone participating on the site, that.

That's the thing, though, you can win...sort of. A good rule of thumb would be to be professional when acting in your official capacity and be yourself when you're not making any rulings. Joking or acting informal/unprofessional when you're acting in your official capacity can be taken negatively.

[Todlichebujoku]

This is where we can't seem to win, sadly enough. We joke, people take advantage of it and seem to think we're no longer worth listening to when we put on the mod hat. Or we get taken to task when the tone is light and someone feels it is inappropriate. We joke all the time, hang out with regular players, have since god knows when. Myself, I actually mellowed when modded.

Yeah, give you time to let that one sink in. It's a shock, I know.

This boils down to an interpretation that is always going to be 'in the eye of the beholder', I'm afraid. Depends on who sees what posts, where, and when. Isn't really a good view of some of us overall, if only one aspect is seen.

Pretty much goes for anyone participating on the site, that.

That's the thing, though, you can win...sort of. A good rule of thumb would be to be professional when acting in your official capacity and be yourself when you're not making any rulings. Joking or acting informal/unprofessional when you're acting in your official capacity can be taken negatively.

Use blood red text when mod hat is applied.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

That's the thing, though, you can win...sort of. A good rule of thumb would be to be professional when acting in your official capacity and be yourself when you're not making any rulings. Joking or acting informal/unprofessional when you're acting in your official capacity can be taken negatively.

Use blood red text when mod hat is applied.

I already do that. And attempt to keep the lightheartedness where it is appropriate. Point is, you cannot please everyone. Goes along with the whole 'good faith' thing [violet] was talking about, and yes, I do realize it has to go both ways. Oddly, we try to when making moderator decisions. And have often given the benefit of the doubt where we can. It's nice when that's proven correct. It's disappointing when the player proves us wrong - but easy enough to correct it going forward.

[Bezombia]

Use blood red text when mod hat is applied.

I already do that. And attempt to keep the lightheartedness where it is appropriate. Point is, you cannot please everyone. Goes along with the whole 'good faith' thing [violet] was talking about, and yes, I do realize it has to go both ways. Oddly, we try to when making moderator decisions. And have often given the benefit of the doubt where we can. It's nice when that's proven correct. It's disappointing when the player proves us wrong - but easy enough to correct it going forward.

You should have a special type of posting similar to redtext, but a different color so people can know when you're not posting officially.

I vote for the color green my flag is and that it be called greentext.