Disputing lock, requesting further opinions

[Divair]

We have a thread for rape, why is depression suddenly off-limits? Yes, there are other sites for it, but there are other sites for everything we talk about on NS. Depression is no exception. And no, Farn, it isn't to inflate my ego, I don't gain pleasure from other's misfortunes, the ego joke was merely regarding the title, not the subject of the thread. I don't care if I'm OP or not. I care about helping others on here.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=284040
And no, for the record, I don't appreciate Farn's condescension. I expected a far more formal response.

[Farnhamia]

Mod-signal sent up.

[Esternial]

Though I've filed a GHR, I feel like the Forum Mods should also be provided with my arguments:

Regarding this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=284040

I think it should be possible to maintain a Mod-supervised thread allowing people to share their issues with a partially anonymous group of people. Personally, I haven't shared *any* of my issues with people I know IRL. The people that know about my issues are exclusively from this forum, and we should let people who feel depressed to "spill their guts", using the advantage anonymity brings to this forum.

There's a thread regarding rape, where people have suffered from severe physical and mental trauma. It's not about the crime or anything like that. It's the survivors. People are trying to survive other mental trauma, too, so it's time we gave them a chance to share their stories.

[The Blaatschapen]

We have a thread for rape, why is depression suddenly off-limits? Yes, there are other sites for it, but there are other sites for everything we talk about on NS. Depression is no exception. And no, Farn, it isn't to inflate my ego, I don't gain pleasure from other's misfortunes, the ego joke was merely regarding the title, not the subject of the thread. I don't care if I'm OP or not. I care about helping others on here.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=284040
And no, for the record, I don't appreciate Farn's condescension.

The reason for the lock is simple. Let's look at the OP:

What I am offering is a place for you to clear your mind and to talk with others who have gone through similar pain and suffering. It is through experience that we learn how best to heal ourselves, and learning from the experiences of others is surely beneficial to all involved.

You're offering a place which is not safe (and it can't be because we cannot stop people from being trolls). Which is dangerous for all those involved that share their depression issues. We cannot watch every single post that's made there before someone else sees it, and then the damage of the troll might already have been done to another user. And all that because a place where serious personal issues are shared is not safe. Not safe at all.

There are safe places on the internet for this kind of stuff. And RL places too. Use them.

[Divair]

We have a thread for rape, why is depression suddenly off-limits? Yes, there are other sites for it, but there are other sites for everything we talk about on NS. Depression is no exception. And no, Farn, it isn't to inflate my ego, I don't gain pleasure from other's misfortunes, the ego joke was merely regarding the title, not the subject of the thread. I don't care if I'm OP or not. I care about helping others on here.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=284040
And no, for the record, I don't appreciate Farn's condescension.

The reason for the lock is simple. Let's look at the OP:

What I am offering is a place for you to clear your mind and to talk with others who have gone through similar pain and suffering. It is through experience that we learn how best to heal ourselves, and learning from the experiences of others is surely beneficial to all involved.

You're offering a place which is not safe (and it can't be because we cannot stop people from being trolls). Which is dangerous for all those involved that share their depression issues. We cannot watch every single post that's made there before someone else sees it, and then the damage of the troll might already have been done to another user. And all that because a place where serious personal issues are shared is not safe. Not safe at all.

There are safe places on the internet for this kind of stuff. And RL places too. Use them.

And yet we have a thread for both rape and body image, the latter not even a safe space. Explain.

[Esternial]

We have a thread for rape, why is depression suddenly off-limits? Yes, there are other sites for it, but there are other sites for everything we talk about on NS. Depression is no exception. And no, Farn, it isn't to inflate my ego, I don't gain pleasure from other's misfortunes, the ego joke was merely regarding the title, not the subject of the thread. I don't care if I'm OP or not. I care about helping others on here.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=284040
And no, for the record, I don't appreciate Farn's condescension.

The reason for the lock is simple. Let's look at the OP:

What I am offering is a place for you to clear your mind and to talk with others who have gone through similar pain and suffering. It is through experience that we learn how best to heal ourselves, and learning from the experiences of others is surely beneficial to all involved.

You're offering a place which is not safe (and it can't be because we cannot stop people from being trolls). Which is dangerous for all those involved that share their depression issues. We cannot watch every single post that's made there before someone else sees it, and then the damage of the troll might already have been done to another user. And all that because a place where serious personal issues are shared is not safe. Not safe at all.

There are safe places on the internet for this kind of stuff. And RL places too. Use them.

So...what about the rape thread?

Also susceptible for many a troll, and the trauma that comes after surviving a rape is not unlike a depression. It's also dangerous, but somehow it managed to work.

[Napkiraly]

I agree with Esty and Div. It's hypocritical to claim that the depression thread won't be safe yet the rape and body image one's are somehow going to be safe from trolls. There are other places and RL for them as well. People here know each other and some already know what problems some of us are facing and have helped. I've received a good 1/2 of my support from the people from this site and that thread could help allow people to open up a bit and perhaps get on the road to getting themselves better just like me and others have experienced.

[Katganistan]

We've explained our reasoning; that you do not care for the explanation is unfortunate.

[Divair]

We've explained our reasoning; that you do not care for the explanation is unfortunate.

Really? Is this what NS moderation has come to? "We answered, fuck off"? Do we not get a say? Do we not have a chance to explain to you why what you're doing is inconsistent?

[Alyakia]

We've explained our reasoning; that you do not care for the explanation is unfortunate.

We were hoping for you to explain the apparent inconsistencies in your reasoning as well.

Is NSG a suitable place for serious topics like rape and depression, or is it not? It's important that this be clearly known. The reasoning given as you already know applies equally to several existing threads.

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

This is, plainly, the most ridiculous thread lock that I've seen since joining NSG in 2006.

That you allow not only a thread on rape - which is incredibly traumatic - but another thread for people dealing with psychological issues with respect to weight, both started as a mod-enforced safe space, and yet you won't allow a thread for the more umbrella issue of depression and other psychological trauma is inexcusable.

There are a lot of people on these forums that have dealt with or are currently dealing with serious psychological problems that at least some people here can either help with or commiserate with.

I know there are a lot of trolls on this website, and a lot more that will flock here. I know there are a lot of people on these forums that are as insensitive as humanly possible. I get that. But this thread was started with the intention of helping those in this community with such issues, and making this community a tiny bit better place for them to be. I implore you to rethink this decision.

EDIT: And I apologize if it seems that I am piling on; I began my response before about 4 replies were posted.

[Napkiraly]

We've explained our reasoning; that you do not care for the explanation is unfortunate.

And we're explaining how we think your reasoning is not very good in this particular case; that you do not care for perhaps seeing how this is so is unfortunate.

[ImperiallJapan]

I do not see the logic in the locking of that thread. In my opinion, it is completely outrageous.

Let's see, you allow a rape thread, but not a depression and anxiety thread? Think about this mods, a rape thread is allowed, but a simple depression and anxiety thread is not? This is the most pointless thread lock I have ever seen in my time on NationStates.

I sincerely hope you reconsider this decision and unlock the thread.

[Esternial]

We've explained our reasoning; that you do not care for the explanation is unfortunate.

I figure it might be helpful for people like Aequalitia, who has made a suicide attempt not that long ago. We might catch on to severe cases and get them the help they are unable to reach to.


Frankly, your reasoning sucks.

[Swith Witherward]

I'll take the newspaper slap or even a 1-day ban but I need to weigh in on this:

• We've had a few "depression threads" in NSG. I believe Divair's approach was well-stated and beneficial. It was one of the better-phrased OPs that I've seen.
• Depression isn't a crime nor is it something to be ashamed of. We, as a society, seem to have the desire to sweep it under the rug. What this does is create a perceived environment where "talking about depression" is taboo. This sends a message to people (especially to youth) that depression and mental illness is something dark and bad and shameful and embarrassing.
• I don't see Divair's thread as something that would replace a suicide prevention hotline. Perhaps he could have put a few phone numbers in his OP but, by and large, having a spot to talk about this particular health problem is beneficial to those who may not be suicidal but might be ashamed to tell anyone IRL that they're going through a low. It lets our teen users know that adults and other teens have gone through it, it's not as scary as people assume, and getting help is always better than standing alone and self-medicating.
• I adore Farn but, contrary to the opinion stated, an online forum is the perfect place to broach this subject, especially on NS where we have an outstanding moderation team that is often very quick in resolving issues with problem users.

I was active in the depression/suicide threads about two years ago. It is only through open dialog and a mature approach that we can take steps to strip away the "shameful finger wagging" mentality so prevalent in our society. Mental health is just as serious as cardiac health. Mental Health patients are survivors. Those survivors stand as a testament to others that "you are not alone in your pain/shame/fears". Sometimes all it takes is one mental health patient saying, "take that step, you'll be glad you did" to save a life.

It's been said that the rape thread stands as "protected" because those participants are victims of a crime. Sorry, but suicide is also a crime and there are many of us who are survivors. It's one thing to look at a photo of your rapist; it's another thing to look in the mirror every day and see the eyes of the person who tried to kill you. I don't think anyone is looking to turn a depression thread into a "suicide prevention hotline" or to designate it as "a mod sanctioned place" but sometimes reading the stories shared by other recognizable NSGer helps empower others to seek help.

edited: typo fixed.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

We've explained our reasoning; that you do not care for the explanation is unfortunate.

Sorry, I understand that this isn't my thread by I have to severely disagree with it being locked.

Look, if your worried about people trolling others in it, then its a lost cause because the Rape thread is also a risk to that behavior.

Just having the words "Safe Space" won't stop someone from trolling another, at least if they're adamant.

There was at least one person who was actually being negative towards a person with depression.

There were several people who wanted to talk about it, myself included but I didn't get a post out....regardless.

If the issue is about peoples feelings, regardless of the fact that they can still be harmed anyways, can you at least do what I think is fair and lock the other threads such as the Rape thread, which is also at risk for peoples issues being targeted?

I don't think this is fair to Diviar and all I ask is for you Mods is to talk about it a bit more, because I don't think there is any fair review here.

Now I see that there are a lot of responses to you know, I am not looking at you in a negative light, I'm just asking for some fair treatment here all across the board and to be consistent for us here.

[The Scientific States]

We've explained our reasoning; that you do not care for the explanation is unfortunate.

You're kidding? The reasoning was "NSG is not a good place to talk about depression."
That is the worst reasoning I've ever seen, you don't think NSG is a good place to talk about depression, that's your opinion, but you can't just shut down a thread like that. The thread was not spammy, it was not full of trolls, and we had a good discussion going on.

[Conserative Morality]

As someone who suffers from depression on a regular basis, it is most often not the presence of suicide lines and mental help that keeps my condition from worsening, it's the ability to discuss with other people that I know. NSG is a community, like any other. Please, as someone who has survived suicide attempts in the past, consider that this discussion may be more helpful for some than any number of open lines that make an individual irrationally hate themselves for even considering. Sometimes, it's just casually coming out with it that makes such a huge difference, in my experience.

[ImperiallJapan]

We've explained our reasoning; that you do not care for the explanation is unfortunate.

Really? Is this what NS moderation has come to? "We answered, fuck off"? Do we not get a say? Do we not have a chance to explain to you why what you're doing is inconsistent?

As I am sure that the mods notice, most if not all people on this specific thread are against the locking of the depression and anxiety thread.

By the looks of it, it appears that we, in fact, do not get a say. Outrageous, completely outrageous.

[Arglorand]

I honestly think this lock is, to use a slightly Spockish term, highly illogical.

Personally, I think that if people wish to share their issues on NSG, they should be allowed to. And others should be allowed to help them. If trolls or the like appear, they can be punished accordingly. But the topic itself ought to be unlocked.

[Potentiation]

As someone who suffers from depression on a regular basis, it is most often not the presence of suicide lines and mental help that keeps my condition from worsening, it's the ability to discuss with other people that I know. NSG is a community, like any other. Please, as someone who has survived suicide attempts in the past, consider that this discussion may be more helpful for some than any number of open lines that make an individual irrationally hate themselves for even considering. Sometimes, it's just casually coming out with it that makes such a huge difference, in my experience.

This post evokes the spirit I want to go for.

I do not have many people to speak to about my issues. This thread would be extremely useful to a poster like me, even with the occasional troll post or insensitive user. I do not think the moderators fully grasp the utility of these threads to people like me, and to beat a dead horse, this decision is obviously inconsistent with the fact that the rape thread is around. To be completely honest, I am fully expecting the moderators to appeal to the procedure ( "we locked the thread and that's it"), and then lock any future thread relating to this issue, warning/banning anyone who starts one again.

[ImperiallJapan]

Of course, the mods have no response to our completely rational and logical arguments. Coincidence? I think not.

[Shaggai]

Of course, the mods have no response to our completely rational and logical arguments. Coincidence? I think not.

It's been what, 2 hours? Seriously, moderation can take a lot longer than that on anything, especially when none of them are online. Give them a break, until another mod actually posts.

[Greed and Death]

Maybe we should make a perma troll thread where people troll each other and it is allowed nowhere else ?

[Swith Witherward]

We have a thread for rape, why is depression suddenly off-limits? Yes, there are other sites for it, but there are other sites for everything we talk about on NS. Depression is no exception. And no, Farn, it isn't to inflate my ego, I don't gain pleasure from other's misfortunes, the ego joke was merely regarding the title, not the subject of the thread. I don't care if I'm OP or not. I care about helping others on here.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=284040
And no, for the record, I don't appreciate Farn's condescension.

The reason for the lock is simple. Let's look at the OP:

What I am offering is a place for you to clear your mind and to talk with others who have gone through similar pain and suffering. It is through experience that we learn how best to heal ourselves, and learning from the experiences of others is surely beneficial to all involved.

You're offering a place which is not safe (and it can't be because we cannot stop people from being trolls). Which is dangerous for all those involved that share their depression issues. We cannot watch every single post that's made there before someone else sees it, and then the damage of the troll might already have been done to another user. And all that because a place where serious personal issues are shared is not safe. Not safe at all.

There are safe places on the internet for this kind of stuff. And RL places too. Use them.

I appreciate the concern. I can see it from your point of view and I understand that depression threads are a liability when people attempt to use them to "seek help" rather than "discuss". Div's thread was looking to discuss rather than diagnose or treat.

That said, I'd like to add that threads which talk about homosexuality are equally prone to trolling. Gay and lesbian youth take a beating in real life. One troll could easily push a depressed or fearful kid into downing pills because the words on his screen read "freak!" A person can't help being gay. A person can't help having mental illness. If we must outlaw one based upon liability, we should then ban other "helpful" discussions on hotbed topics simply because they, too, draw trolls and could affect others.


IJ, to be fair, the Mods are probably in discussion right now. There might not be many on, and it'll take them a while to sort through the issues we're bringing up. I ask that everyone please be patient and let them talk it over. Moderation is a team effort. I know we all get snarky at them over delays but, unlike so many forums, NS does have a strong team. They're listening, even if they're not posting replies here. They have an IRC where they can communicate. Patience, dear NSGers. It's hard when a topic is this near and dear to us, I know.