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by Todlichebujoku » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:18 pm
[violet] wrote:You are my go-to nation for long names.
Oct 16 2018- Indo States wrote:YOU'RE FALSE TOBU
Apr 21 2020- Llalta wrote:omg tobu you’ve literally given me asthma with ur art
by Vakolic » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:23 pm
The greater Vakolicci Haven
by Franklin Delano Bluth » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:36 pm
by Sneaky Bastards » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:41 pm
Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:Shaggai wrote:Question: If we went with your suggestion and replaced the entire mod team, who would be mods in the interim? How would actual moderation of the forums be dealt with?
We organize a shadow crew now, keeping it up to date as people come and go, so that we have a slate ready to go in immediately once the revolution comes.
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Do you think there is One True God Particle, or do you think there is a pantheon of god particles out there? And if the latter, do you think the God Particle of Thunder has a tiny little hammer?
by Shaggai » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:48 pm
Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:Shaggai wrote:Question: If we went with your suggestion and replaced the entire mod team, who would be mods in the interim? How would actual moderation of the forums be dealt with?
We organize a shadow crew now, keeping it up to date as people come and go, so that we have a slate ready to go in immediately once the revolution comes.
by Vakolic » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:51 pm
Sneaky Bastards wrote:Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:
We organize a shadow crew now, keeping it up to date as people come and go, so that we have a slate ready to go in immediately once the revolution comes.
A shadow crew made up of who? How are they chosen? What are their qualifications? How do we know they're going to moderate according to the rules laid out by Max and not carry out their own little agenda or that of their friends?
The greater Vakolicci Haven
by Sneaky Bastards » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:11 pm
Vakolic wrote:Sneaky Bastards wrote:
A shadow crew made up of who? How are they chosen? What are their qualifications? How do we know they're going to moderate according to the rules laid out by Max and not carry out their own little agenda or that of their friends?
I'd love a democratic mod team, but Max hates democracy and has made it perfectly clear that it wouldn't happen. Largely because a lot of the people he thinks would make excellent moderators would be out of a job.
I do think a good idea would be to give us a shortlist of candidates that Max has vetted, so we can at least pick a particular subforum, and someone we think has an open enough mind.
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Do you think there is One True God Particle, or do you think there is a pantheon of god particles out there? And if the latter, do you think the God Particle of Thunder has a tiny little hammer?
by Dakini » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:25 pm
by Dakini » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:37 pm
by Forsher » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:02 pm
Todlichebujoku wrote:It would also be a heck of a lot better if the mods avoided potentially abrasive language when dealing with players, as it tends to antagonize players and give the mods a bad image.
Vakolic wrote:I'd love a democratic mod team, but Max hates democracy and has made it perfectly clear that it wouldn't happen. Largely because a lot of the people he thinks would make excellent moderators would be out of a job.
I do think a good idea would be to give us a shortlist of candidates that Max has vetted, so we can at least pick a particular subforum, and someone we think has an open enough mind.
by Grenartia » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:06 am
1) Moderator reprimands are seldom done in public. If a moderator makes a mistake, the corrections are typically done in private. If there is evidence of actual malice in the action, odds are pretty good that mod is going to be asked to step down. Nathi's actions in the thread I assume you are ranting about were not deemed to be malicious.
by Bears Armed » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:46 am
In other words, "We're going to keep on shouting until you put some of us in power"? I don't know how other people respond to that approach, but it certainly doesn't incline me to feel that you should be trusted with authority.The UK in Exile wrote:Appoint more moderators. Especially from the people who are complaining eloquently in this thread.
by Shaggai » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:55 am
Bears Armed wrote:It looks to me as though pretty well all of these complaints are coming from within "the NSG community", rather than from players whose activity within NS is more focussed (in one way or another) on their actual nations.
Because NSG doesn't really have anything to do with the players' actual nations it's arguably less "essential" to NS than any of the other sub-forums except perhaps F7,
So, maybe the best way to resolve this situation for the benefit of NS as a whole wouldn't be to scrap & replace all of the current Mods, it would be to abolish NSG (and F7) -- thus leaving the Mods with a lot more time (and hopefully a better mood, too) for dealing with the rest of the forums -- instead?In other words, "We're going to keep on shouting until you put some of us in power"? I don't know how other people respond to that approach, but it certainly doesn't incline me to feel that you should be trusted with authority.The UK in Exile wrote:Appoint more moderators. Especially from the people who are complaining eloquently in this thread.
by Esternial » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:59 am
Vakolic wrote:Sneaky Bastards wrote:
A shadow crew made up of who? How are they chosen? What are their qualifications? How do we know they're going to moderate according to the rules laid out by Max and not carry out their own little agenda or that of their friends?
I'd love a democratic mod team, but Max hates democracy and has made it perfectly clear that it wouldn't happen. Largely because a lot of the people he thinks would make excellent moderators would be out of a job.
I do think a good idea would be to give us a shortlist of candidates that Max has vetted, so we can at least pick a particular subforum, and someone we think has an open enough mind.
by DesAnges » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:12 am
by Grenartia » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:20 am
Shaggai wrote:Bears Armed wrote:It looks to me as though pretty well all of these complaints are coming from within "the NSG community", rather than from players whose activity within NS is more focussed (in one way or another) on their actual nations.
Because NSG doesn't really have anything to do with the players' actual nations it's arguably less "essential" to NS than any of the other sub-forums except perhaps F7,
So, maybe the best way to resolve this situation for the benefit of NS as a whole wouldn't be to scrap & replace all of the current Mods, it would be to abolish NSG (and F7) -- thus leaving the Mods with a lot more time (and hopefully a better mood, too) for dealing with the rest of the forums -- instead?
In other words, "We're going to keep on shouting until you put some of us in power"? I don't know how other people respond to that approach, but it certainly doesn't incline me to feel that you should be trusted with authority.
Abolish NSG? Hell no. Do you know how many people would leave? And how annoying it would be for me to find a new forum for that sort of thing?
by Shaggai » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:27 am
Grenartia wrote:There've been many suggestions in this thread, many of which I'd like to see implemented, so I won't bother to repeat them. However, I do have a two-part suggestion to combat what we all agree is a major two-part problem: the lack of trust and lack of transparency (which in my observations, seem to feed each other).
I was reading this post earlier, and specifically, Reppy's statement that:1) Moderator reprimands are seldom done in public. If a moderator makes a mistake, the corrections are typically done in private. If there is evidence of actual malice in the action, odds are pretty good that mod is going to be asked to step down. Nathi's actions in the thread I assume you are ranting about were not deemed to be malicious.
Why aren't staff reprimands done in public?
In addition to public reprimands, I also asked why there isn't a sort of NS version of a Freedom of Information Act with regards to moderation (the person who came closest to suggesting this was Esternial, though his idea was shot down). I've heard it mentioned multiple times from multiple staff members that moderator actions are logged and that these logs are unchangeable and viewable by Max.
Basically, instead of a half-mod, half-poster, PR person as was previously suggested, why not allow people to request the logs relevant to specific incidents/actions to be publicly published (of course, any highly sensitive information (IP addresses, etc.)can and should be removed, just like in RL Freedom of Information Act requests, though it should be kept down to only the absolute minimum) by one of the admins?
We've made no secret of our dissatisfaction with the process, and the staff here has made no secret of their dissatisfaction with our statements of dissatisfaction. I believe that properly implemented, these two steps will significantly help to ease the tensions.
by Esternial » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:29 am
Shaggai wrote:Grenartia wrote:There've been many suggestions in this thread, many of which I'd like to see implemented, so I won't bother to repeat them. However, I do have a two-part suggestion to combat what we all agree is a major two-part problem: the lack of trust and lack of transparency (which in my observations, seem to feed each other).
I was reading this post earlier, and specifically, Reppy's statement that:
Why aren't staff reprimands done in public?
In addition to public reprimands, I also asked why there isn't a sort of NS version of a Freedom of Information Act with regards to moderation (the person who came closest to suggesting this was Esternial, though his idea was shot down). I've heard it mentioned multiple times from multiple staff members that moderator actions are logged and that these logs are unchangeable and viewable by Max.
Basically, instead of a half-mod, half-poster, PR person as was previously suggested, why not allow people to request the logs relevant to specific incidents/actions to be publicly published (of course, any highly sensitive information (IP addresses, etc.)can and should be removed, just like in RL Freedom of Information Act requests, though it should be kept down to only the absolute minimum) by one of the admins?
We've made no secret of our dissatisfaction with the process, and the staff here has made no secret of their dissatisfaction with our statements of dissatisfaction. I believe that properly implemented, these two steps will significantly help to ease the tensions.
The FoIA thing sounds like a good idea. I'm not sure how much it would help, but it should be done.
DesAnges wrote:I have only one suggestion, as everyone will think of anything else at some point or other, either previously or in the future.
We need some comeback on these threads. The Culture thread was all well and good and the community sourced some excellent ideas - but then you guys all disappeared into the treehouse and thrashed out plans for some ideas and discarded the rest, and a lot of these fell by the wayside because people forgot and weren't informed of what happened.
An update after a month would have been a good shift into a 6-monthly update system. Just a (probably global) thread every so often to keep the entire userbase informed of what is going on with moderation policy and how the site is being kept in check. A brief outline of decisions made and why they were done so. A "State of the Union" if you will.
by Shaggai » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:01 am
by Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:24 am
by Dyakovo » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:11 am
by Vakolic » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:28 am
Dyakovo wrote:An actual system for disciplining mod misconduct. Such a system would require real transparency - no more secret"reprimands" More importantly, it would actually have to be applied. Complaints would have to be taken seriously. No more dismissing them out of hand as the grumblings of someone holding a grudge. And mods would have to be held to a higher standard than players. At the moment, many of us see certain mods breaking rules daily without repercussions. So much so that it's become a standing joke. People don't have confidence in mods they don't respect. Respect is earned, and once damaged, hard to restore.
A public review of the Cameroi situation is absolutely necessary. The shut down of the discussion on that was the last straw for me and many others. The decision to allow him to remain on a site targeted at schools was bad enough. But to cut off objections as a witch hunt and threaten legal action against players was impardonable.
These two can really only really be addressed by bringing in an outside team, IMO. If the ad revenue is not enough to cover a team of 3-4 pros, at least some outside party ought to be engaged to help sort out all the crap set up the suggested rubric, weed out the bad apples, and do regularly review the situation.
The greater Vakolicci Haven
by Edlichbury » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:03 am
by Bezombia » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:07 am
Sauritican wrote:We've all been spending too much time with Ben
Verdum wrote:Hey girl, is your name Karl Marx? Because your starting an uprising in my lower classes.
Black Hand wrote:New plan is to just make thousands of disposable firearms and dump them out of cargo planes with tiny drag chutes attached.
Spreewerke wrote:The metric system is the only measurement system that truly meters.
Fordorsia wrote:mfw Beano is my dad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSWiMoO8zNE
Spreewerke wrote:Salt the women, rape the earth.
Equestican wrote:Ben is love, Ben is life.
Sediczja wrote:real eyes realize real lies
by Vakolic » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:09 am
The greater Vakolicci Haven
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