Trolling

[Neo Art]

Beginning here:

viewtopic.php?p=15102199#p15102199

continuing here:

viewtopic.php?p=15102265#p15102265
viewtopic.php?p=15102380#p15102380
viewtopic.php?p=15102556#p15102556
viewtopic.php?p=15102861#p15102861

and specifically here:

viewtopic.php?p=15102810#p15102810

and ending here:

viewtopic.php?p=15102904#p15102904

Where this poster is advocating penalizing rape victims who do not report their own rapes, specifically stating that rape victims should "feel ashamed for allowing other people to be victims"

There are controversial positions. There are unpopular beliefs. There are questions to be debated.

And then, there is this.

We can not, for one moment, pretend to be a forum where legitimate discussion amongst adults is tolerated if we allow individuals to tell members of this forum, many of whom are victims of sexual assault themselves, that, if they made the deeply personal choice not to report that rape, that they should be "ashamed" and should be punished for that choice.

This is not a controversial opinion. This is not a legitimate debate topic. Telling people that they should be ashamed if they choose not to report their own rape can be considered nothing but trolling in the most obvious and extreme.

This kind of thing can not be allowed. It is toxic to any reasonable community.

[NERVUN]

Looking, please stand by...

Edit: Need to consult with hivemind.

[Volnotova]

I pardon thou?

I for one do not understand why this is even being looked at, in fact I have difficulty comprehending this even being considered.

I have seen snark worse than this, people here have at times gotten away with open support for ethnic cleansing and genocide for crying out loud.

I can deal with people getting away with anti-semitism, homophobia and racism(regardless of whether it offends me), I can deal with people getting banned for pointing out that if somethings quacks like a duck, looks like a duck and moves like a duck it probably is a duck.

But this is absolutely ridiculous to the point of disbelief, I have seen stuff many many times worse than this (And if you wish I can point it out). I have seen open misogyny and calls for ethnic cleansing/genocide. I have seen people advocate for having people like me systematically exterminated. I have seen people get away with not just trolling but consistent anti-semitism, racism and homophobia.

If moderation bans or warns a user (like Ostroeuropa) for holding a genuine point of view without resorting to ad hominems and the like then it is safe to assume moderation on this forum has turned into a joke.

(I would hereby like to ask moderation why anti-semitism, racism & homophobia and supporting ethnic cleansing and genocide are somehow tolerable, to an extend, while Ostroeuropa, who is merely ventilating a genuinely held opinion is being considered for punishment.)

[NERVUN]

I pardon thou?

I for one do not understand why this is even being looked at, in fact I have difficulty comprehending this even being considered.

I have seen snark worse than this, people here have at times gotten away with open support for ethnic cleansing and genocide for crying out loud.

I can deal with people getting away with anti-semitism, homophobia and racism(regardless of whether it offends me), I can deal with people getting banned for pointing out that if somethings quacks like a duck, looks like a duck and moves like a duck it probably is a duck.

But this is absolutely ridiculous to the point of disbelief, I have seen stuff many many times worse than this (And if you wish I can point it out). I have seen open misogyny and calls for ethnic cleansing/genocide. I have seen people advocate for having people like me systematically exterminated. I have seen people get away with not just trolling but consistent anti-semitism, racism and homophobia.

If moderation bans or warns a user (like Ostroeuropa) for holding a genuine point of view without resorting to ad hominems and the like then it is safe to assume moderation on this forum has turned into a joke.

(I would hereby like to ask moderation why anti-semitism, racism & homophobia and supporting ethnic cleansing and genocide are somehow tolerable, to an extend, while Ostroeuropa, who is merely ventilating a genuinely held opinion is being considered for punishment.)

I beg YOUR pardon and ask you to halter those fine horses and bridle your righteous anger at something that hasn't even been decided yet.

If you feel like yelling at me afterwards, great, but you might want to make sure I've done something first before getting in a snit.

Edit: Locked because honestly I don't need comments and full blown arguments in Moderation in the middle of this.

[NERVUN]

Addressed.

This thread will now be re-opened for questions or concerns. Two quick words though:

A. Please remember this is not General, let's not move the debate over here.

B. I am busy with classes today, please keep in mind that while I will try to answer any questions put to me it might take a while.

[Ostroeuropa]

I object to your decision that I have flamebaited at any point in the thread. I think you were influenced by your opinion of my opinion(or rather, the opinion I was exploring) and saw flamebaiting because you wanted to see it.

I'll note that receiving a warning for the statements I made that you consider flamebaiting is entirely inconsistent with the amount of times you and other moderators have let people such as neo art get away with "You're awful at this" and "You're adorable." with absolutely no other argument or statement. The post consists of nothing BUT an attempt to piss people off, and it's extremely clear. But it is mild. In comparrison, asking

Would you rather not consider all the options in case they make your tummy hurt and you need to go lie down for a while and have a nap? Sometimes there isn't a nice answer. Is this one of those times? Maybe. I don't think so. But It's still important to consider a last ditch effort.

or something along those lines gets an immediate official warning, despite it containing something equally mild, and containing actual content that is not in any conceiveable way a flamebait
In addition, you flatly failed to respond to people straight up calling me a monster for even discussing an opinion that I don't hold, so clearly you were not reading the thread in an objective manner, as this seems to be a pretty clear cut case of flaming.
I strongly disagree with your decision.
You have handed out a warning for flamebaiting that I disagree occured, ignored flaming that actually occured, etc.

Flamebait: Posts that are made with the aim of angering someone indirectly. Not outright flame, but still liable to bring angry replies. Flame baiting is a far more subtle and covert action; it is an underhanded tactic that is designed to provoke a response from another player. It's in the same context of trolling but with flamebaiting it's just the one person.

Can you demonstrate how either of the posts you cite for flamebaiting constitute this.
(This is all I'm going to post on this matter. I consider it a disgraceful moderation attempt in line with the objections made previously by another poster.)
I suppose you can consider this post an appeal if that's allowable, on the grounds that no rules violation occured with the posts cited. Both of the posts you cite contain content and no post made with the aim of angering someone indirectly, and cannot be shown to be otherwise.


In addition, would you care to explain to me how in the context of this report this post:
viewtopic.php?p=15102840#p15102840
Is anything OTHER than trollnaming with absolutely no content other than a rules violation, has been made with the clear purpose of trollnaming, etc.
I'd basically like you to explain how you can be so incredibly inconsistent. Is it not breaking the rules if the president neo art does it?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=237883&p=14106867&hilit=awful+at+this#p14106867
viewtopic.php?p=14108390#p14108390
(probably the final edit.)

Conclusion:
Even if you accept that the posts in question are flamebaiting, which I contest but will allow for the moment, then it is still entirely inconsistent with previous judgements to issue an official warning for posts like this as a first action. Especially when you consider that a post made with 100% mild flamebait garners no official warning, and a post made with actual content that contains a similar statement (Again, I contest this but fine) as only part of the post garners an official warning.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

This was discussed at length between a group, and is not reflective of any perceived bias you may feel on Nerv's part. This is also about you and your posts. Not everyone else, in different threads and different circumstances, that you may feel are equivalent for whatever reasons to your own responses - which you, might I add, are responsible for. Just as others are responsible for theirs.

Will take a look at other bits, but for yours, believe the right call was made, for the reasons stated.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Oh ffs ... April, 23. Where everyone was called on the carpet. No, we're done with that. Not dredging it up again just because you're irritated that you got called on a poor choice of posting.

The other is not troll-naming as the rule stands. No dice.