Flaming (Mods only)

[Bears Armed]

Here.

[Kryozerkia]

Sorry, that's not a flame. The two posts directly under yours are attacking your proposal and your defense of it, something that falls into the area of "attack the post and not the poster".

[Bears Armed]

Sorry, that's not a flame. The two posts directly under yours are attacking your proposal and your defense of it, something that falls into the area of "attack the post and not the poster".

You mean this

OOC: You know, I'm officially tired of your wank. You're not being cute, you're not being funny, you're not being clever- you're just wasting everyone's time arguing this pointless bullshit. WAFTING? Really? That's what you've come up with?

Come on. Get a fucking grip and stop wasting everyone's time. It's not becoming of you.

is "attacking the post and not the poster"? !? This is acceptable language to use?

Can I have a second opinion, please?

[Kryozerkia]

Sorry, that's not a flame. The two posts directly under yours are attacking your proposal and your defense of it, something that falls into the area of "attack the post and not the poster".

You mean this

OOC: You know, I'm officially tired of your wank. You're not being cute, you're not being funny, you're not being clever- you're just wasting everyone's time arguing this pointless bullshit. WAFTING? Really? That's what you've come up with?

Come on. Get a fucking grip and stop wasting everyone's time. It's not becoming of you.

is "attacking the post and not the poster"? !? This is acceptable language to use?

Can I have a second opinion, please?

Seems no other mods are on right at this moment, so let me dissect this for you.

For anyone wondering, I'm looking at this based on the context of the thread from whence this post came.

OOC: You know, I'm officially tired of your wank.

With the context of the thread in mind, I see this as a person expressing disgust at your actions, which in this case would be your proposal.

You're not being cute, you're not being funny, you're not being clever- you're just wasting everyone's time arguing this pointless bullshit.

The first three parts are not flames. It's not a flame if you say someone is not being cute; not being funny, not being clever. Especially if one is aware of the context. This comment is directed at what you wrote for your proposal.

The last part about how you're wasting time, that's not a flame either. Yes, bullshit could have been substituted with horse manure or another colourfully descriptive adjective, but it's not a problem otherwise.

This is the first noted profanity. In the context of the sentence it's relatively acceptable. Some people may be offended by it, others won't. It's not the worse word that could have been used.

WAFTING? Really? That's what you've come up with?

Nothing wrong here, though I do detect sarcasm.

Come on. Get a fucking grip and stop wasting everyone's time. It's not becoming of you.

The use of 'fucking' here was not needed. The rest is otherwise not out of line.

Of course, another mod's opinion is always welcome. I only wanted to clarify my position on this.

[Bears Armed]

Seems no other mods are on right at this moment, so let me dissect this for you.

For anyone wondering, I'm looking at this based on the context of the thread from whence this post came.

OOC: You know, I'm officially tired of your wank.

With the context of the thread in mind, I see this as a person expressing disgust at your actions, which in this case would be your proposal.

With the context of past uses (at least in the WA & NSUN forums) of term such as 'puppetwank', 'godwank' & 'techwank' to label RPing styles with which various players have disagreed, I took the use of 'wank' in that post to mean the fact that I'd chosen to create a proposal that was particularly appropriate in an IC sense to the way in which I choose to RP 'Bears Armed' & 'Bears Armed Mission' (i.e. as inhabited primarily by anthropomorphic Bears ... who, of course, are very fond of Honey...) in which case it wouldn't be the proposal as such to which he was objecing as it would be my decision about how to RP this nation: therefore, it semed to me, an attack on the poster rather than on the specific post... Consider that, as we certainly hadn't had any lengthy debate about this proposal before the post to which I objected, he hadn't exactly got any good reason to be "tired of" the proposal itself...

You're not being cute, you're not being funny, you're not being clever- you're just wasting everyone's time arguing this pointless bullshit.

The first three parts are not flames. It's not a flame if you say someone is not being cute; not being funny, not being clever. Especially if one is aware of the context. This comment is directed at what you wrote for your proposal.

The last part about how you're wasting time, that's not a flame either. Yes, bullshit could have been substituted with horse manure or another colourfully descriptive adjective, but it's not a problem otherwise.

This is the first noted profanity. In the context of the sentence it's relatively acceptable. Some people may be offended by it, others won't. It's not the worse word that could have been used.

Does he say why he thinks that the proposal isn't cute/funny/clever, and/or why he thinks that it's "pointless bullshit"? No, he doesn't. Maybe that doesn't quite make it into a personal attack, then, but that certainly makes it into a pointless post...How acceptable are pointless jibes?
After all, he could have simply said something more like "I consider this proposal to be pointless, and will oppose it if it gets to quorum" without the jibes... and in the WA forum, aren't OOC posts (such as his was) held to a higher tsandard than IC ones?

WAFTING? Really? That's what you've come up with?

Nothing wrong here, though I do detect sarcasm.

Agreed...
Although, off course, if he so dislikes 'WAFTING' as the proposed organisation's name then he could have tried suggesting an alternative that he'd consider more acceptable instead of just jeering...

Come on. Get a fucking grip and stop wasting everyone's time. It's not becoming of you.

The use of 'fucking' here was not needed. The rest is otherwise not out of line.

Except that as he hasn't given any actual reason why he regards this proposal in particular as a waste of time, how do we know that he isn't telling me to "shut up" completely rather than just on this topic?

[Ardchoille]

You want a second opinion? Fine: come off it, Bears Armed. You've a right to complain when offended, but there's no need to go looking for offence.

Allech-Atreus has declared he's writing OOC. So he, the player, dislikes the proposal. This thread isn't the first time he's seen a proposal on this subject. You've had it drafting in the Jolt forum. Fris told you there, 10 months ago, that the proposal was hovering on the edge of silliness.

I don't think you can reasonably argue that Allech-Atreus hasn't had time to grow tired of it. Nor do I think you can reasonably interpret his remarks as being addressed to your RPing style, rather than to the proposal.

And if he were commenting on your RPing style, that's something players are permitted to discuss in a forum that uses IC/OOC posts, provided it's not done to the extent of becoming flame or flamebait. Look at how II or NS posts advise players that a particular action is godmoding, or statwank. Your post contains RP; he would be commenting on that content.

As for civility, I agree the WA is held to "a higher standard of decorum and politeness". Kryo reminded A-A that "fucking" was not needed. That's all that the offence calls for -- this one time, in this context.

Kryo's dealt with it sentence by sentence. I agree with her sentence by sentence.