Flaming - MODS ONLY

[Dyakovo]

Seriously... I don't like Draconian Races either, but it is still beyond the pale...

No, my morality says dont even listen to my religion: Just slay the homosexuals in their homes. Destroy all trace of them.

My religion is what makes me as moderate as I am.

Wow, seriously, fuck you.


I hate to say it, but NOTHING you say is liked. You should post on F7 or roleplay, and not spread religious bullshit. Maybe there, people might give a shit.

[Demen]

Responsibility taken.



I'm tired of him. That doesn't excuse a personal insult.

[Melkor Unchained]

Responsibility taken.



I'm tired of him. That doesn't excuse a personal insult.

Thanks. I know, it happens sometimes, just try to keep it under control. I'll still have to add a warning for this, but I'll spare you the garish red text for owning up to it.

That said, the post you're replying to is kinda woah to me too.

Okay, I guess I have to pull out the redtext here anyway, if only because the post you were responding to deserves one too. I think it's better for everyone if we just post a 'proper' ruling in the thread itself that covers both warnings for clarity and posterity's sake. We'll get it posted here soon.

[Melkor Unchained]

Ruling posted.

[Draconian Races]

Once again, Id appeal the Warning...

I am speaking a truly held belief, with the intent of expressing my beliefs, not 'trolling'. Ive also stated this belief before without a Warning. Its a valid part of my beliefs and arguments.

[Sedgistan]

It would help if you could like to these other posts where you claim you've stated this belief without warning. I'd like to re-iterate Melkor's point, though, that you're not being warned for arguing against homosexuality - it's the way you've done it, by advocating the killing of all of them that makes your post trolling.

[Greater Tezdrian]

Once again, Id appeal the Warning...

I am speaking a truly held belief, with the intent of expressing my beliefs, not 'trolling'. Ive also stated this belief before without a Warning. Its a valid part of my beliefs and arguments.

See below:

Trolling: Posts that are made with the aim of angering people. (like 'ALL JEWS ARE [insert vile comment here]' for example). While Trolls often make these posts strictly in an attempt to provoke negative comment, it is still trolling even if you actually hold those beliefs. Intent is difficult to prove over the internet, so mods will work under their best assumptions.

-directly from the OSRS, emphasis mine.

[Draconian Races]

Once again, Id appeal the Warning...

I am speaking a truly held belief, with the intent of expressing my beliefs, not 'trolling'. Ive also stated this belief before without a Warning. Its a valid part of my beliefs and arguments.

See below:

Trolling: Posts that are made with the aim of angering people. (like 'ALL JEWS ARE [insert vile comment here]' for example). While Trolls often make these posts strictly in an attempt to provoke negative comment, it is still trolling even if you actually hold those beliefs. Intent is difficult to prove over the internet, so mods will work under their best assumptions.

-directly from the OSRS, emphasis mine.

Except Im not just saying "All queers are [insert here].'
The Facists believed they should be exterminated. Isnt that a political belief?

It would help if you could like to these other posts where you claim you've stated this belief without warning. I'd like to re-iterate Melkor's point, though, that you're not being warned for arguing against homosexuality - it's the way you've done it, by advocating the killing of all of them that makes your post trolling.

How else am I to state it then? My firm belief is they should be corrected or killed. How else am I to state that I want them ended if they do not go celibate/straight?

[Greater Tezdrian]

Except Im not just saying "All queers are [insert here].'
The Facists believed they should be exterminated. Isnt that a political belief?

First, yes you have, several times. Second, that's completely untrue. I shall take my leave now, to avoid a Spam Warning.

[Demen]

Responsibility taken.



I'm tired of him. That doesn't excuse a personal insult.

Thanks. I know, it happens sometimes, just try to keep it under control. I'll still have to add a warning for this, but I'll spare you the garish red text for owning up to it.

That said, the post you're replying to is kinda woah to me too.

Okay, I guess I have to pull out the redtext here anyway, if only because the post you were responding to deserves one too. I think it's better for everyone if we just post a 'proper' ruling in the thread itself that covers both warnings for clarity and posterity's sake. We'll get it posted here soon.

It's alright.


Figured that was how it would work out.

[Katganistan]

And we reiterate:

Advocating violence and murder against an entire group of people and saying things designed to piss off reasonable folks, is still trolling even if you hold those beliefs.

If you cannot express it civilly, this is probably not the site for you.

[Melkor Unchained]

And we reiterate:

Advocating violence and murder against an entire group of people and saying things designed to piss off reasonable folks, is still trolling even if you hold those beliefs.

If you cannot express it civilly, this is probably not the site for you.

Not to belabor the point, but if Draconian Races has said this in the past and wasn't warned for it (as he alleges in this thread) that probably had more to do with us not seeing it than anything else. I very much doubt a moderator had at any point consciously waved a similar remark off as unactionable, and if someone did, I/we will likely review the ruling if such a thing can be found.

To be completely fair here, most of the people in that thread actually did a really good job of responding to it, and the comment itself didn't end up being too disruptive--but we don't want people to get the impression that they should say stuff like this on the off chance they'll get away with it. I guess Draconian Races can appeal via GHR if he likes, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's summarily dismissed. This one's pretty clear-cut, as far as we're concerned.

[Draconian Races]

I TG'd a mod with this question, and I will post it here. Its an actual question, not being sarcastic/impudent.

I firmly believe it is reasonable to commit genocide on the homosexuals. I firmly believe they are subhuman. My comments are not designed to make people mad, they are designed to state my opinion.

So how can I express advocation of genocide in a way that will not make 'reasonable' people mad? How should I phrase it, so that I get across the subhuman/should-be-killed aspect, while still posting with civility?

[Holy Marsh]

I TG'd a mod with this question, and I will post it here. Its an actual question, not being sarcastic/impudent.

I firmly believe it is reasonable to commit genocide on the homosexuals. I firmly believe they are subhuman. My comments are not designed to make people mad, they are designed to state my opinion.

So how can I express advocation of genocide in a way that will not make 'reasonable' people mad? How should I phrase it, so that I get across the subhuman/should-be-killed aspect, while still posting with civility?

The answer is that you can't and you can't. It doesn't matter if you are simply stating it as a belief or not, you can not say that here and have it not be against the rules. For future purposes, avoid discussion of the matter.

[NERVUN]

I TG'd a mod with this question, and I will post it here. Its an actual question, not being sarcastic/impudent.

I firmly believe it is reasonable to commit genocide on the homosexuals. I firmly believe they are subhuman. My comments are not designed to make people mad, they are designed to state my opinion.

So how can I express advocation of genocide in a way that will not make 'reasonable' people mad? How should I phrase it, so that I get across the subhuman/should-be-killed aspect, while still posting with civility?

You TG'd me that and you didn't state genocide, you stated subhuman. The Modly answer is that it is not up to us to tell you how to word something that offensive so it passes muster. If what you're saying would make everyone mad, as Kat said, perhaps this isn't the site for you, at least with stating those viewpoints.

Max, the site owner, has stated that he wishes for most viewpoints to be allowed their space in the sun so that they may be debated. We do not state that you will not be offended, or offend, people here; however, certain points of view, such as calling for genocide, even if truly held, do not advance debate but arrest it just out of repugnance.

[Demen]

I TG'd a mod with this question, and I will post it here. Its an actual question, not being sarcastic/impudent.

I firmly believe it is reasonable to commit genocide on the homosexuals. I firmly believe they are subhuman. My comments are not designed to make people mad, they are designed to state my opinion.

So how can I express advocation of genocide in a way that will not make 'reasonable' people mad? How should I phrase it, so that I get across the subhuman/should-be-killed aspect, while still posting with civility?

Post on a white nationalist forum.



You may not like that answer but that's where we are headed.

[Serrland]

I TG'd a mod with this question, and I will post it here. Its an actual question, not being sarcastic/impudent.

I firmly believe it is reasonable to commit genocide on the homosexuals. I firmly believe they are subhuman. My comments are not designed to make people mad, they are designed to state my opinion.

So how can I express advocation of genocide in a way that will not make 'reasonable' people mad? How should I phrase it, so that I get across the subhuman/should-be-killed aspect, while still posting with civility?

You TG'd me that and you didn't state genocide, you stated subhuman. The Modly answer is that it is not up to us to tell you how to word something that offensive so it passes muster. If what you're saying would make everyone mad, as Kat said, perhaps this isn't the site for you, at least with stating those viewpoints.

Max, the site owner, has stated that he wishes for most viewpoints to be allowed their space in the sun so that they may be debated. We do not state that you will not be offended, or offend, people here; however, certain points of view, such as calling for genocide, even if truly held, do not advance debate but arrest it just out of repugnance.

I held the impression that advocating a crime was a direct violation of forum rules? Surely genocide is a crime (per international law) and the advocacy of it should be treated accordingly, right? Or maybe I misunderstand the rules.

[Draconian Races]

The Nazis and Communists both punished homosexuality. The former with death, the latter with imprisonment and abuse. Im advocating doing what other nations have done. Plus I wasnt the one who originally used the term genocide. I just said something along the lines of 'kill them'. Not genocide perse. But... since others call it that...

[Serrland]

The Nazis and Communists both punished homosexuality. The former with death, the latter with imprisonment and abuse. Im advocating doing what other nations have done. Plus I wasnt the one who originally used the term genocide. I just said something along the lines of 'kill them'. Not genocide perse. But... since others call it that...

Advocating murder would still fall into the encouragement of an illegal act, though, would it not?

[Czardas]

It does not matter whether you actually hold those beliefs. (Note that Nazis who show up here often don't last very long for that very reason.)

Stating "x group is subhuman and should be exterminated", or any variations thereupon, is trolling and will always be trolling. If you want to keep in line with the rules, don't say things like that.

I think we're done here.