Req: move Dutch topic back to General

[Ballotonia]

Greetings,

It seems to me that a poor translation of one post (in: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9964#p333800 ) was the main reason the Dutch topic ( viewtopic.php?f=25&t=180 ) has been labeled as 'spam' and subsequently it was moved to Forum 7. I'd like to object to that move.

The Dutch topic is a community-based thread, for all dutch-language players in NS, from all regions (though mainly regions Belgium and Nederland) It has existed in General since the inception of its first incarnation ( http://forums.joltonline.com/showthread.php?t=278280 ) which started on august 23, 2003. We occasionally had to start new topics since in the beginning threads were locked when reaching a certain number of posts.

The Dutch thread has no specific topic, instead it focusses on whatever topic is somehow in the news at that time and is considered worthy of discussion. This may give the impression that it's a common 'spam' chat-thread, but it isn't. Over time we cover actual topics, like the rise of right-wing (populist) parties in politics in both the Netherlands and Belgium, dealing with immigration issues, drug policies, elections, major sport tournaments, a recent assault on the Dutch Royal familty, etc... We specifically do NOT post stuff like "hey dude, what are you doing this weekend?" or "I bought the latest Britney Spears album" or "what's up? I'm bored..." Things like that are considered spam and would IMHO cause people to ask the posters to take it to private email (I can't be sure about others though, AFAIK nobody ever posted crap like that in any of the Dutch topics).

Take a look at what's in Forum 7... A thread like "The "Kill the Admins/Mods" Game" goes to 65 pages in less than 24 hours. That's spam, plain and simple. Might be fun for some, and more power to them, but please don't put the Dutch Topic in one pile with that. It has reached 31 pages in TWO WHOLE MONTHS. This is an indication that if there's nothing to post about, the posting volume reduces to a trickle at best. Pages are filled when there's a topic worthy of posting.

Because of the above, I'm arguing that the Dutch topic ( viewtopic.php?f=25&t=180 ) better belongs in General, not in Forum 7. The thread isn't spam.

Ballotonia

[HC Eredivisie]

For the record, my translated post started with an actual reply to FI and then went on as blabbering.

[West-Flanders]

My views regarding the Dutch Topic, and the decision to dump it in Forum 7 are as follows:

At first sight, according the definition of Forum 7 ("The place to relax, unwind, share a joke, and generally goof off") the Dutch thread might fit in there. At closer view however..
I have to admit I've never really browsed Forum 7 before, let alone posting there, but now our thread apparantly was moved there, I thought I'ld have a look around the neighboorhood and check out our new neighboors. And I was sligtly appalled by what you're equating us with. The Dutch Topic is not a spam thread! It may not have one solid topic, but we do have contence! Actually there's a multitude of topics (like Ballo already mentioned). Unless of course you want us to make a new all-dutch-spreaking thread in General for every subject we want to discuss in dutch?

Sure, between and besides the numerous topics (news-related stuff, Nationstates, politics, sport, beer, food, cricket (sorry, I don't consider cricket a sport), television-programs, eurovisionsong-contest, even the liguistical, cultural and historical differences between Belgium and the Netherlands are being discussed), there is some occasional chat, and sometimes we Belgians do poke fun at the Dutch (and vice versa), but it's no spam-topic like the other forum-7 stuff. It's also the ideal meeting place for the Dutch-speaking community. Sometimes we discover new Dutch speaking people that way(or rather they discover us). And although there's the occasional spammer ("U tolk phunny, isz ith Germun?"), every now and then we also meet some friendly foreign folks who try to interact in Dutch (which is always appreciated). Like Yootopia for example, founder of the Sixth Dutch Topic.

Also, I'm slightly dismayed by not having of the chance of to defend or having our voice heard in the decision. Apparantly there was a complaint (the first in many many many many years I might add). We've never had any chance to explain what we're doing down there in our topic, the complaint-thread was closed before we noticed it.

It has been mentioned there're have been other language-threads (in Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian..). But we are more than just a temporary fad. The Dutch Topic is an old tradition, it has been here for ages. You must honour and respect traditions, no dump them into the spam-forum which has a 5 day auto-prune. The Dutch topic predates the move to Jolt. In the ye ol' buggy forum threads could only be a limited number of pages, therefore we had to start anew. We had three of four, then there was Jolt, and now number Six.

[Melkor Unchained]

A chat thread is a chat thread, regardless of language or whether it predated Forum 7/Jolt or not. Strictly speaking, we probably should have locked it when it started, since god knows we locked plenty of English chat threads in NSG both before and after the Dutch one started.

We discussed this at length in our seekrit mod chatr00m of d00m over the last few days, and decided to move it to F7. We're not saying the topic is 'spam,' we're saying its a chat thread. There's no need to get defensive about what other users choose to post in F7; I don't think the word "spam" ever came up while we were debating this, but it is a chat thread and chat threads belong in F7.

[Reploid Productions]

And Forum 7 isn't meant to be a spam forum either. Sure, it can get a little spammy, but it's mostly ... well, the casual area. I for one wouldn't mind seeing more chat type threads in there myself. Forum games and mod worship is fine, but it gets old after awhile.

[West-Flanders]

We discussed this at length in our seekrit mod chatr00m of d00m over the last few days, and decided to move it to F7. We're not saying the topic is 'spam,' we're saying its a chat thread. There's no need to get defensive about what other users choose to post in F7; I don't think the word "spam" ever came up while we were debating this, but it is a chat thread and chat threads belong in F7.

Length? Discussed over the last few days?
Excuse me, but IF posted his complaint yesterday, and 5,5 hours later it was dumped in Forum 7.

Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:41 am: Intestinal fluids posted his complaint
Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:08 am: Complain-thread closed
Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:24 am: Dutch Topic was moved to Forum 7

[Scolopendra]

So Melk hyperbolized slightly. This isn't a court of law nor are we negotiating a legal contract, so arguing over the definition of the word "is" will not be particularly helpful.

Facts of the matter:

1. There was a discussion.
2. It was decided that since chat is generally disallowed in General but is the raison d'etre of F7, the thread should be moved to F7.
3. The thread was moved.
4. Admin concurs.

Continued argument can serve no purpose but to further entrench currently held opinions as it currently consists of "move it back to general" "no" "move it back" "no" repeat ad nauseam. Discussion closed.