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Advoating violence in Detroit gay pride parade thread

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.
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Aclion
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Anarchy

Advoating violence in Detroit gay pride parade thread

Postby Aclion » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:29 pm

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=466189
I see several people advocating for violence/murder over several posts from page 4 to 7
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NERVUN
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Right-wing Utopia

Postby NERVUN » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:31 pm

Links would be nice...
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Aclion
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Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Aclion » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:38 pm

viewtopic.php?p=35795983#p35795983 Have this conversation for starters
A free society rests on four boxes: The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box.
XKI: Recruiter, TITO Knight
TEP: WA Executive Staff member
Forest: Cartographer
Oatland: Caesar, Cartographer

It is the citizen's duty to understand which box to use, and when.

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Jakker
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Founded: May 17, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jakker » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:45 pm

I loomed: viewtopic.php?p=35796068#p35796068

Thanks for the report.
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Aclion
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Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Aclion » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:59 pm

A free society rests on four boxes: The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box.
XKI: Recruiter, TITO Knight
TEP: WA Executive Staff member
Forest: Cartographer
Oatland: Caesar, Cartographer

It is the citizen's duty to understand which box to use, and when.

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Farnhamia
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:12 pm

Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
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Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
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Torrocca
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:33 pm



Um, yeah, I'd like to appeal the hell out of this. If the 10 or so pages proceeding that post, where I clarify repeatedly that I wasn't talking about committing violence are too much to sift through, then allow me to present some express quotes that should clarify why this ruling's wrong:

Torrocca wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
You can just say murder lol, everyone knows that's what you're constantly hinting at.


Is your first and only resort for dealing with a household roach infestation to completely destroy the entire house with explosives?


Torrocca wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Unironically yes.


Well... I suppose that explains why you think I'm advocating for murder.


This one's really important to the context of that post, in fact:

Torrocca wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:While I applaud your commitment, I'd say that everyone that opposes your ideology, including Nazis, are just as justified to do the same to you.

If Antifa wishes to do away with any semblance of civility, then they can't complain when their opponents do as well.


The Nazis have already made it abundantly clear they'd kill me (for numerous reasons regarding who I am, in fact) and other leftists. I'd like to avoid bloodshed in regards to protecting society from their tyrannies, if possible, but I have absolutely no qualms in people killing them to defend themselves or others from the murderous shit they'd do.


And, of course, this one's even more important to it:

Torrocca wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
What do you suggest?


I'm sure there's at least a few Nazis and the like who can be rehabilitated from that cancerous set of ideologies peacefully, so that should be option A: rehabilitating them and deradicalizing them away from that bullshit and correcting their course; in fact, getting them away from those ideologies as peacefully as possible should be the first solution, as far as it is possible. The next step, which should be taken with extreme care and caution in regards to the Paradox of Tolerance and the slippery slope (with a seriously serious emphasis on extreme care and caution), is to either socially or legally dissuade/ban the ideologies from society.

I'd say those are some possible first steps to take.


Simply put, any half-decent look into what I was talking about in relation to that post will show there was no intention of advocating for violence.
Last edited by Torrocca on Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
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Farnhamia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:42 pm

Torrocca wrote:


Um, yeah, I'd like to appeal the hell out of this. If the 10 or so pages proceeding that post, where I clarify repeatedly that I wasn't talking about committing violence are too much to sift through, then allow me to present some express quotes that should clarify why this ruling's wrong:

Torrocca wrote:
Is your first and only resort for dealing with a household roach infestation to completely destroy the entire house with explosives?


Torrocca wrote:
Well... I suppose that explains why you think I'm advocating for murder.


This one's really important to the context of that post, in fact:

Torrocca wrote:
The Nazis have already made it abundantly clear they'd kill me (for numerous reasons regarding who I am, in fact) and other leftists. I'd like to avoid bloodshed in regards to protecting society from their tyrannies, if possible, but I have absolutely no qualms in people killing them to defend themselves or others from the murderous shit they'd do.


And, of course, this one's even more important to it:

Torrocca wrote:
I'm sure there's at least a few Nazis and the like who can be rehabilitated from that cancerous set of ideologies peacefully, so that should be option A: rehabilitating them and deradicalizing them away from that bullshit and correcting their course; in fact, getting them away from those ideologies as peacefully as possible should be the first solution, as far as it is possible. The next step, which should be taken with extreme care and caution in regards to the Paradox of Tolerance and the slippery slope (with a seriously serious emphasis on extreme care and caution), is to either socially or legally dissuade/ban the ideologies from society.

I'd say those are some possible first steps to take.


Simply put, any half-decent look into what I was talking about in relation to that post will show there was no intention of advocating for violence.

Second Opinion flag raised. I will say that you have to consider the Man In The Street factor, that is, someone idly wandering by who might think that you were, in fact, advocating violence with your post.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:03 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Um, yeah, I'd like to appeal the hell out of this. If the 10 or so pages proceeding that post, where I clarify repeatedly that I wasn't talking about committing violence are too much to sift through, then allow me to present some express quotes that should clarify why this ruling's wrong:

This one's really important to the context of that post, in fact:



And, of course, this one's even more important to it:


Simply put, any half-decent look into what I was talking about in relation to that post will show there was no intention of advocating for violence.

Second Opinion flag raised. I will say that you have to consider the Man In The Street factor, that is, someone idly wandering by who might think that you were, in fact, advocating violence with your post.


That's a fair point to consider, I'll concede, and I should've certainly clarified from the get-go, but I'd imagine the Person In The Street would give more to that thread than just a cursory glance at that one given post considering how deep into the thread it is and especially given the time between it and the report.

Thanks in advance, regardless of how the second opinion goes.
Last edited by Torrocca on Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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Scomagia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Scomagia » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:53 am

I'm not involved in the report but this is relevant:
Torrocca wrote:
Scomagia wrote:So you support murder of Nazis?


¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Torrocca
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:06 am

Scomagia wrote:I'm not involved in the report but this is relevant:
Torrocca wrote:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Might as well keep this post that came from that same exact page, too, then, in response to that post that was putting words into my mouth:

Torrocca wrote:
Andsed wrote:Okay so what did your post ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ mean then? Because if I put words in your mouth than that must means you had a different meaning. So please enlighten me.


It was sarcastic dismissiveness toward Scom's bullshit assertion, nothing more and nothing less. Now do I see killing Nazis in self-defense as fine? Sure. Wanton murder? No.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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Scomagia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Scomagia » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:18 am

Torrocca wrote:
Scomagia wrote:I'm not involved in the report but this is relevant:


Might as well keep this post that came from that same exact page, too, then, in response to that post that was putting words into my mouth:

Torrocca wrote:
It was sarcastic dismissiveness toward Scom's bullshit assertion, nothing more and nothing less. Now do I see killing Nazis in self-defense as fine? Sure. Wanton murder? No.

Not putting words in your mouth. I was trying to get you to be specific about what you meant by this:
Torrocca wrote:
Scomagia wrote:Eliminated how?


By any means necessary, like I said before.
Insert Victim Group Here
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PanRacial
Preferred adjective: Many Colored
Cry about "gotchas".
Build pathetic strawmen of your opposition.
Cry about "bullying".
Shift the goalposts.
Make snarky shitposts.

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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:19 am

Scomagia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Might as well keep this post that came from that same exact page, too, then, in response to that post that was putting words into my mouth:


Not putting words in your mouth. I was trying to get you to be specific about what you meant by this:
Torrocca wrote:
By any means necessary, like I said before.


The word "necessary" necessarily implies that I wasn't talking about wanton murder or violence like you were insinuating, but, regardless, let's leave this to the mods, since this isn't a place for arguing the meaning of things.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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Aclion
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Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Aclion » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:55 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Scomagia wrote:Not putting words in your mouth. I was trying to get you to be specific about what you meant by this:


The word "necessary" necessarily implies that I wasn't talking about wanton murder or violence like you were insinuating, but, regardless, let's leave this to the mods, since this isn't a place for arguing the meaning of things.

"Whatever means necessary" is a stock phrase used to make it expect that violence is permissible if nonviolence doesn't accomplish the goal. It does exactly the opposite of exclude violence
Last edited by Aclion on Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A free society rests on four boxes: The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box.
XKI: Recruiter, TITO Knight
TEP: WA Executive Staff member
Forest: Cartographer
Oatland: Caesar, Cartographer

It is the citizen's duty to understand which box to use, and when.

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Torrocca
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Posts: 23967
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:13 pm

Aclion wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
The word "necessary" necessarily implies that I wasn't talking about wanton murder or violence like you were insinuating, but, regardless, let's leave this to the mods, since this isn't a place for arguing the meaning of things.

"Whatever means necessary" is a stock phrase used to make it expect that violence is permissible if nonviolence doesn't accomplish the goal. It does exactly the opposite of exclude violence


Again, I made it clear repeatedly I wasn't advocating violence by any stretch of the imagination (although I admit I made a poor job in the original post), and again, let the mods decide.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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Luna Amore
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Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Luna Amore » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:05 pm

I can see how it can be seen as advocating violence, but given the context provided in thread and the overall vagueness of the phrase ('By whatever means necessary'), I'm going to reverse the warning.
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Lenyo: This dilemma needs an option that Luna would support in RL.

The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal Name. The unnamable is the eternally real. Naming is the origin of all particular things. Free from desire, you realize the mystery. Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations. Yet mystery and manifestations arise from the same source. This source is called darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gateway to all understanding

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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:11 pm

Luna Amore wrote:I can see how it can be seen as advocating violence, but given the context provided in thread and the overall vagueness of the phrase ('By whatever means necessary'), I'm going to reverse the warning.


Thanks, Luna! Much appreciated; I'll make sure next time to convey myself clearly so we can avoid another one of these :3
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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Necroghastia
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Posts: 353
Founded: May 11, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Necroghastia » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:06 am

Big Jim P wrote:Just put antifa and the nazis in an enclosed place, arm them and let them go at it. Sell it on pay-per-view. That way, money is made, two worthless groups eliminate one another and there is no misidentified targets.
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Luna Amore
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Founded: Antiquity
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Luna Amore » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:29 am

Necroghastia wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:Just put antifa and the nazis in an enclosed place, arm them and let them go at it. Sell it on pay-per-view. That way, money is made, two worthless groups eliminate one another and there is no misidentified targets.

Not actionable.
Max: The code changelog says, "Added 'butthole' by mod request"
Lenyo: This dilemma needs an option that Luna would support in RL.

The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal Name. The unnamable is the eternally real. Naming is the origin of all particular things. Free from desire, you realize the mystery. Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations. Yet mystery and manifestations arise from the same source. This source is called darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gateway to all understanding


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