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Ongoing Database Problems: Discussion/Questions

Bug reports, general help, ideas for improvements, and questions about how things are meant to work.

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Domais
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Postby Domais » Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:14 am

I understand that the CTE timer will be extended from 28 days to 35 days, will the same 7-day extension be granted for vacation mode nations?
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Card Cleaver
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Postby Card Cleaver » Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:18 am

North East Germany wrote:Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how much it would cost to ensure this could never happen again?
I'm only speaking for myself here but I'm sure there are others like me that would be willing to chip in to make sure this kind of thing cannot happen again.


Spontaneous hard drive failure tends to be a problem that money doesn't solve. Redundancy fully implemented would have made life easier but the admin team are where they are now

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Bisofeyr
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Postby Bisofeyr » Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:36 am

Inferior wrote:
Ayodhya Nagar wrote:How many days it will take? (Estimate)

I dont know but since they got most of it done I estimate by the 23rd or sooner. THIS IS NOT AN ACTUAL ETA THIS IS AN ESTIMATION!

A lot of the spurious information by those who don't know what they're talking about here has been responded or debunked but, unless I'm missing something, nobody responded to this: as Refuge Isle put so eloquently, there is absolutely no way to know how long it will take to fix the issue for admin, much less someone who isn't behind the scenes. I know you put a disclaimer but this is largely unhelpful and will only further clog up the pipes of information. Let's not make guesses for the sake of making guesses, and let the people who know what they're talking about do their jobs (which they graciously do for free) until they have an update for us.

Sorry if this is harsh but I feel like I'm losing my head at some of the responses in this thread.

Refuge Isle wrote:Sometimes I think that video games give people a false idea of how complex problems work. For example, in many games, when you start a research project or long-term engineering project, you often see a progress bar and linear progression along it. However, in real life, the journey to the end point is not predictably linear, and the end point itself may be ambiguous. Consequently, time estimates getting there optimistic at best and arbitrary at worst. The best (read: optimistic) estimate is available on the main game page, but it is not a countdown.

The real time remaining is unknown or cannot be known. The game will be back up whenever the admins (who have real jobs and lives outside the game) are able to devote the time necessary to conduct the high level work of properly rebuilding the disk to a stable state with the minimal possible data loss. Much progress has been made so far, but more work needs to be done.

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Kinqueven
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Postby Kinqueven » Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:39 am

Along with the shutdown, will there be new updates? E.G. New themes, new card season, etc.?
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Montrandec
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Postby Montrandec » Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:45 am

Kinqueven wrote:Along with the shutdown, will there be new updates? E.G. New themes, new card season, etc.?
Nothing of the sort has been said so far, so much so that the new season hopes have been dashed (rightly so! I'd be glad to explain why this makes very little sense.)

From what I've seen, new features being added doesn't require sudden hardware failure, but that's just my experience. As an edit: For the sake of speculation it is probable the admins have far too much unexpected workload on their hands to suddenly code new features to add in, and even less plausible that they coincidentally planned to release these during an unplanned database failure.
Last edited by Montrandec on Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Republics of the Solar Union
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Postby Republics of the Solar Union » Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:48 am

Kinqueven wrote:Along with the shutdown, will there be new updates? E.G. New themes, new card season, etc.?

Simply out, the mods have real lives and jobs. They are working hard to restore this disk which spectacularly failed, and is resisting to any attempt to restore from it. And it isn't black and white on a screen, saying "Recovering: At x percentage", it's running a lot of obscure commands and receiving a lot of obscure outputs demotivating at best. It's spending countless hours waiting for a success only to be given a failure. And put on top of it all, having the pressure of fixing a game that many people play. And to put coding more features on top of it would be just one box too overweight, and a crash nobody would dream of.
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United Calanworie
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Founded: Dec 12, 2018
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Postby United Calanworie » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:06 am

The Southern Dependencies wrote:
The Best leaf and ronsania5 wrote:Are reigions gonno be affected?

Yes, smaller ones.

No. They aren't. Don't say things that you have no knowledge of, because all you're doing is scaring people who are genuinely worried. We have not lost any data associated with regions aside from polls.
Inferior wrote:
Ayodhya Nagar wrote:How many days it will take? (Estimate)

I dont know but since they got most of it done I estimate by the 23rd or sooner. THIS IS NOT AN ACTUAL ETA THIS IS AN ESTIMATION!

You aren't on the tech team, you aren't on the mod team, you have no idea what the ETA is. As with the first poster I've replied to, don't say things if you don't know what you're talking about. All you're doing is telling people things that you've pulled out of your ass. Knock it off.
Dytarma wrote:Are they (whoever does the job) also checking the other hard drives/ssd's for potential failures that could occur in the future as well?

We monitor the SMART errors on our drives and replace them when a sufficient number of SMART errors are registered -- for the sake of transparency, we replaced disks on the gameside server during this downtime out of an abundance of caution for the SMART errors that we were getting.
Kinqueven wrote:Along with the shutdown, will there be new updates? E.G. New themes, new card season, etc.?

Absolutely not. Every available minute of admin time currently has been devoted to fixing the outage.
Republics of the Solar Union wrote:
Kinqueven wrote:Along with the shutdown, will there be new updates? E.G. New themes, new card season, etc.?

Simply out, the mods have real lives and jobs. They are working hard to restore this disk which spectacularly failed, and is resisting to any attempt to restore from it. And it isn't black and white on a screen, saying "Recovering: At x percentage", it's running a lot of obscure commands and receiving a lot of obscure outputs demotivating at best. It's spending countless hours waiting for a success only to be given a failure. And put on top of it all, having the pressure of fixing a game that many people play. And to put coding more features on top of it would be just one box too overweight, and a crash nobody would dream of.

Yeah basically this. I don't think I've run so many random frantic greps like `ls -ltr /var/cache/apt/archives | grep [package]` and `dpkg -l | grep [package]-$(uname -r)` for... a while. "oh god help what version is this module" was playing through my head for a while, and then it turned into "aw fuck okay which thing went down???" and then then there was some frantic `apt installs` and then keyboard smashes that vaguely resemble commands.
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Safiniatin
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Postby Safiniatin » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:07 am

Republics of the Solar Union wrote:
Kinqueven wrote:Along with the shutdown, will there be new updates? E.G. New themes, new card season, etc.?

Simply out, the mods have real lives and jobs. They are working hard to restore this disk which spectacularly failed, and is resisting to any attempt to restore from it. And it isn't black and white on a screen, saying "Recovering: At x percentage", it's running a lot of obscure commands and receiving a lot of obscure outputs demotivating at best. It's spending countless hours waiting for a success only to be given a failure. And put on top of it all, having the pressure of fixing a game that many people play. And to put coding more features on top of it would be just one box too overweight, and a crash nobody would dream of.

This is quite a cinéma cliche. Now most servers use Linux who has ddrescue, who quite helps A LOT to repair disk partitions, and obviously it's definitely not impossible for it to fail. But i think you talk about what ancestor ddrescue has, the venerable partclone.
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United Calanworie
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Postby United Calanworie » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:08 am

Safiniatin wrote:
Republics of the Solar Union wrote:Simply out, the mods have real lives and jobs. They are working hard to restore this disk which spectacularly failed, and is resisting to any attempt to restore from it. And it isn't black and white on a screen, saying "Recovering: At x percentage", it's running a lot of obscure commands and receiving a lot of obscure outputs demotivating at best. It's spending countless hours waiting for a success only to be given a failure. And put on top of it all, having the pressure of fixing a game that many people play. And to put coding more features on top of it would be just one box too overweight, and a crash nobody would dream of.

This is quite a cinéma cliche. Now most servers use Linux who has ddrescue, who quite helps A LOT to repair disk partitions, and obviously it's definitely not impossible for it to fail. But i think you talk about what ancestor ddrescue has, the venerable partclone.

Yeah ddrescue did not help here. Lol.
Last edited by United Calanworie on Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: wtf why did that emoji end up in my post
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Safiniatin
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Postby Safiniatin » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:08 am

United Calanworie wrote:
The Southern Dependencies wrote:Yes, smaller ones.

No. They aren't. Don't say things that you have no knowledge of, because all you're doing is scaring people who are genuinely worried. We have not lost any data associated with regions aside from polls.
Inferior wrote:I dont know but since they got most of it done I estimate by the 23rd or sooner. THIS IS NOT AN ACTUAL ETA THIS IS AN ESTIMATION!

You aren't on the tech team, you aren't on the mod team, you have no idea what the ETA is. As with the first poster I've replied to, don't say things if you don't know what you're talking about. All you're doing is telling people things that you've pulled out of your ass. Knock it off.
Dytarma wrote:Are they (whoever does the job) also checking the other hard drives/ssd's for potential failures that could occur in the future as well?

We monitor the SMART errors on our drives and replace them when a sufficient number of SMART errors are registered -- for the sake of transparency, we replaced disks on the gameside server during this downtime out of an abundance of caution for the SMART errors that we were getting.
Kinqueven wrote:Along with the shutdown, will there be new updates? E.G. New themes, new card season, etc.?

Absolutely not. Every available minute of admin time currently has been devoted to fixing the outage.
Republics of the Solar Union wrote:Simply out, the mods have real lives and jobs. They are working hard to restore this disk which spectacularly failed, and is resisting to any attempt to restore from it. And it isn't black and white on a screen, saying "Recovering: At x percentage", it's running a lot of obscure commands and receiving a lot of obscure outputs demotivating at best. It's spending countless hours waiting for a success only to be given a failure. And put on top of it all, having the pressure of fixing a game that many people play. And to put coding more features on top of it would be just one box too overweight, and a crash nobody would dream of.

Yeah basically this. I don't think I've run so many random frantic greps like `ls -ltr /var/cache/apt/archives | grep [package]` and `dpkg -l | grep [package]-$(uname -r)` for... a while. "oh god help what version is this module" was playing through my head for a while, and then it turned into "aw fuck okay which thing went down???" and then then there was some frantic `apt installs` and then keyboard smashes that vaguely resemble commands.

They talked about an estimation, not an actual ETA. Also avoid getting into /var/cache/apt/archives. It has no actual relationship. Myself i used Ubuntu, Debian and i use Arch Linux and it is a pain to configure especially with libraries missing (libvdpau is a pain >:( ). I think you better gotta check on the faulty server if Linux works using dmesg. It tells everything who happened from system launch.
Last edited by Safiniatin on Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Safiniatin
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Postby Safiniatin » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:09 am

United Calanworie wrote::kiss:
Safiniatin wrote:This is quite a cinéma cliche. Now most servers use Linux who has ddrescue, who quite helps A LOT to repair disk partitions, and obviously it's definitely not impossible for it to fail. But i think you talk about what ancestor ddrescue has, the venerable partclone.

Yeah ddrescue did not help here. Lol.

Because you didn't use it. apt install ddrescue; sudo ddrescue /dev/sda and tada! Unless your disk is ruined and definitely dead it should work if not well you gotta need photorec and testdisk, other very venerable tools. The useful photorec has many resources to help you recover, and also it's considered the most reliable recovery tool in all tech history. It's so reliable that some old UNIX technicians still use it
Last edited by Safiniatin on Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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United Calanworie
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Postby United Calanworie » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:13 am

Safiniatin wrote:
United Calanworie wrote::kiss:
Yeah ddrescue did not help here. Lol.

Because you didn't use it. apt install ddrescue; sudo drescue /dev/sda and tada! Unless your disk is ruined and definitely dead it should work if not well you gotta need photorec and testdisk, other very venerable tools.

Correct. We didn't use it. ddrescue requires that you are able to mount the disk.
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The Southern Dependencies
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Postby The Southern Dependencies » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:16 am

United Calanworie wrote:
The Southern Dependencies wrote:Yes, smaller ones.

No. They aren't. Don't say things that you have no knowledge of, because all you're doing is scaring people who are genuinely worried. We have not lost any data associated with regions aside from polls.
Inferior wrote:I dont know but since they got most of it done I estimate by the 23rd or sooner. THIS IS NOT AN ACTUAL ETA THIS IS AN ESTIMATION!

You aren't on the tech team, you aren't on the mod team, you have no idea what the ETA is. As with the first poster I've replied to, don't say things if you don't know what you're talking about. All you're doing is telling people things that you've pulled out of your ass. Knock it off.
Dytarma wrote:Are they (whoever does the job) also checking the other hard drives/ssd's for potential failures that could occur in the future as well?

We monitor the SMART errors on our drives and replace them when a sufficient number of SMART errors are registered -- for the sake of transparency, we replaced disks on the gameside server during this downtime out of an abundance of caution for the SMART errors that we were getting.
Kinqueven wrote:Along with the shutdown, will there be new updates? E.G. New themes, new card season, etc.?

Absolutely not. Every available minute of admin time currently has been devoted to fixing the outage.
Republics of the Solar Union wrote:Simply out, the mods have real lives and jobs. They are working hard to restore this disk which spectacularly failed, and is resisting to any attempt to restore from it. And it isn't black and white on a screen, saying "Recovering: At x percentage", it's running a lot of obscure commands and receiving a lot of obscure outputs demotivating at best. It's spending countless hours waiting for a success only to be given a failure. And put on top of it all, having the pressure of fixing a game that many people play. And to put coding more features on top of it would be just one box too overweight, and a crash nobody would dream of.

Yeah basically this. I don't think I've run so many random frantic greps like `ls -ltr /var/cache/apt/archives | grep [package]` and `dpkg -l | grep [package]-$(uname -r)` for... a while. "oh god help what version is this module" was playing through my head for a while, and then it turned into "aw fuck okay which thing went down???" and then then there was some frantic `apt installs` and then keyboard smashes that vaguely resemble commands.

I was not referring to data when I made that statement, not was it my intention to refer to data, I was referring moreso to activity and recruitment and numbers. But okay.

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Sufokia
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Postby Sufokia » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:17 am

Domais wrote:I understand that the CTE timer will be extended from 28 days to 35 days, will the same 7-day extension be granted for vacation mode nations?

Seconding this question.

Are only the 28 day nations getting extensions?
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Safiniatin
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Postby Safiniatin » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:18 am

United Calanworie wrote:
Safiniatin wrote:Because you didn't use it. apt install ddrescue; sudo drescue /dev/sda and tada! Unless your disk is ruined and definitely dead it should work if not well you gotta need photorec and testdisk, other very venerable tools.

Correct. We didn't use it. ddrescue requires that you are able to mount the disk.

Ah. If you want, i can definitely help you on those problems. I'm using Arch right now and it's quite like trying to fight the devil's whispers. A pain in the, well you know. Worse, i even experienced charger bugs on Ubuntu when i had it and it was just because of a stupid junky driver, worse, Ubuntu 23.04 is now named in the Linux community 'internet junk' because it can't even connect to the internet with its buggy drivers.
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Safiniatin
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Postby Safiniatin » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:20 am

United Calanworie wrote:
Safiniatin wrote:Because you didn't use it. apt install ddrescue; sudo drescue /dev/sda and tada! Unless your disk is ruined and definitely dead it should work if not well you gotta need photorec and testdisk, other very venerable tools.

Correct. We didn't use it. ddrescue requires that you are able to mount the disk.

Get photorec and testdisk now *ambulance sounds* *surgery sounds*. This is last line of defense surgery. Repeat 1. This is last line of defense surgery. Repeat 1.
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Safiniatin
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Founded: Dec 08, 2023
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Postby Safiniatin » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:26 am

United Calanworie wrote:
Safiniatin wrote:Because you didn't use it. apt install ddrescue; sudo drescue /dev/sda and tada! Unless your disk is ruined and definitely dead it should work if not well you gotta need photorec and testdisk, other very venerable tools.

Correct. We didn't use it. ddrescue requires that you are able to mount the disk.

This is just laziness. It DOESN'T! Copy using dd the faulty disk and use ddrescue, if at least it's recognized by the OS.
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Tungstan
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Postby Tungstan » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:26 am

The Southern Dependencies wrote:I was not referring to data when I made that statement, not was it my intention to refer to data, I was referring moreso to activity and recruitment and numbers. But okay.
When on a thread about a database failure, saying something like that is going to make people assume you’re referring to the data.

Don’t want that assumption to happen? Clarify what you’re talking about—it would’ve taken maybe two more sentences to do so.
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Alcrosnia
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Postby Alcrosnia » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:29 am

United Calanworie wrote:Got questions about the ongoing database problems? Ask them here.

You will likely find it useful to read the Admin thread.

WHEN WILL IT OPEN, LIKE WHEN??? I have waited 5 days and it is still not here
It still says 'in a day or two'

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Safiniatin
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Postby Safiniatin » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:29 am

Plus i have two servers i don't even need yet with 120GB data storage. You can maybe take one or two as safety storage to reduce the risk of this happening again.
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Safiniatin
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Postby Safiniatin » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:30 am

Alcrosnia wrote:
United Calanworie wrote:Got questions about the ongoing database problems? Ask them here.

You will likely find it useful to read the Admin thread.

WHEN WILL IT OPEN, LIKE WHEN??? I have waited 5 days and it is still not here
It still says 'in a day or two'

Calm down. This is a moment of crisis. The mods seem to be unexperienced in Linux maintenance. Plus they're already super stressed which just slows them down and now you're stressing them more.
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Safiniatin
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Founded: Dec 08, 2023
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Postby Safiniatin » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:33 am

Tungstan wrote:
The Southern Dependencies wrote:I was not referring to data when I made that statement, not was it my intention to refer to data, I was referring moreso to activity and recruitment and numbers. But okay.
When on a thread about a database failure, saying something like that is going to make people assume you’re referring to the data.

Don’t want that assumption to happen? Clarify what you’re talking about—it would’ve taken maybe two more sentences to do so.

I quite agree. I'm a Linux sysadmin btw and they use Linux. They just use stupidly a bunch of commands when they can do: sudo photorec /dev/<disk>. This permits to recover a BUNCH of files.
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Alcrosnia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Alcrosnia » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:33 am

Safiniatin wrote:
Alcrosnia wrote:WHEN WILL IT OPEN, LIKE WHEN??? I have waited 5 days and it is still not here
It still says 'in a day or two'

Calm down. This is a moment of crisis. The mods seem to be unexperienced in Linux maintenance. Plus they're already super stressed which just slows them down and now you're stressing them more.

But do they see the forum posts, in between fixing the thing?

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United Calanworie
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Founded: Dec 12, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby United Calanworie » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:35 am

Sufokia wrote:
Domais wrote:I understand that the CTE timer will be extended from 28 days to 35 days, will the same 7-day extension be granted for vacation mode nations?

Seconding this question.

Are only the 28 day nations getting extensions?

As of current -- yes, I think, but I've poked somebody about changing this (assuming it's not been changed already).
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Safiniatin
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Founded: Dec 08, 2023
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Postby Safiniatin » Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:37 am

Alcrosnia wrote:
Safiniatin wrote:Calm down. This is a moment of crisis. The mods seem to be unexperienced in Linux maintenance. Plus they're already super stressed which just slows them down and now you're stressing them more.

But do they see the forum posts, in between fixing the thing?

They probably see, but only them can say if they really saw it or not. I am not a mod, but a sysadmin who is not working with them to help them recover.
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