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Sionis Prioratus
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Quorum

Postby Sionis Prioratus » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:59 pm

As of now:

The following are proposals for WA resolutions. Any WA member nation with at least two endorsements can make a proposal, but it will only become a resolution (to be voted on by the entire WA) if it is approved by at least 6% of WA Regional Delegates.

As the WA currently has 833 Regional Delegates, a proposal needs 50 approvals to achieve quorum.


I've never seen a threshold so low!
Vis-à-vis all the controversy regarding the SC and the quality of what comes from there, maybe it would be wise to raise the 6% bar temporarily.

Thank you. :ugeek:
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[violet]
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Re: Quorum

Postby [violet] » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:32 am

We can raise that figure if a lot of proposals with quorum are banking up and it's taking them too long to reach the voting floor. But currently there are only three quorum proposals in the queue. If we raised quorum, there might be none!

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Bears Armed
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Re: Quorum

Postby Bears Armed » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:17 am

[violet] wrote:We can raise that figure if a lot of proposals with quorum are banking up and it's taking them too long to reach the voting floor. But currently there are only three quorum proposals in the queue. If we raised quorum, there might be none!

But if you let is slip too low then proposals that shouldn't get to quorum -- silly and/or illegal ones -- are a lot more likely to reach quorum...
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Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
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Glen-Rhodes
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Re: Quorum

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:39 am

Bears Armed wrote:But if you let is slip too low then proposals that shouldn't get to quorum -- silly and/or illegal ones -- are a lot more likely to reach quorum...

Why don't we cross that bridge when it's at least in our line of sight... I don't see any silly and/or illegal ones being any near quorum. That, and the quorum level has floated around 50 for a while now, so I don't think it's going to dramatically drop anytime soon...

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Bears Armed
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Re: Quorum

Postby Bears Armed » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:00 am

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
Bears Armed wrote:But if you let is slip too low then proposals that shouldn't get to quorum -- silly and/or illegal ones -- are a lot more likely to reach quorum...

Why don't we cross that bridge when it's at least in our line of sight... I don't see any silly and/or illegal ones being any near quorum. That, and the quorum level has floated around 50 for a while now, so I don't think it's going to dramatically drop anytime soon...

I remember when it was steady around 120 for a long time...

...and, from a bit more recently, how rapidly 'Max Barry Day' slipped through...
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

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Daynor
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Re: Quorum

Postby Daynor » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:16 am

Yeah but recently a lot of the good proposals only make their quorum by 5 or so votes, it's only after they get quorum then they surge to like 80-90.
Last edited by Daynor on Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Glen-Rhodes
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Re: Quorum

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:53 am

Bears Armed wrote:I remember when it was steady around 120 for a long time...

...and, from a bit more recently, how rapidly 'Max Barry Day' slipped through...

I wouldn't call 'Max Barry Day' a recent event, but whatever. The point I was trying to make, is that there's really no threat right now, so it's a little premature to discuss upping the quorum threshold... When silly and/or illegal proposals start getting more than 10-15 approvals, then maybe we should start worrying.

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Charlotte Ryberg
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Re: Quorum

Postby Charlotte Ryberg » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:52 pm

Just a thought, I was thinking about a 7.5% proportion instead of an increase to 10%. What do you think?

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Morlago
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Re: Quorum

Postby Morlago » Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:24 am

I would strongly disagree with the suggestion, Charlotte Ryberg. In fact, I would say that the percentage should be lowered to 5% or lower.
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Sionis Prioratus
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Re: Quorum

Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:02 pm

Morlago wrote:I would strongly disagree with the suggestion, Charlotte Ryberg. In fact, I would say that the percentage should be lowered to 5% or lower.


:palm:

By the way, we're now at 820 delegates. Anybody has a theory about the ongoing nosedive of the Delegate Party?

My suggestion: regardless of percentage, a minimum of 60-75 Delegates would be needed to reach quorum; as for the percentage, whatever it is, whatever was higher (in regards to an absolute number) would apply.

This way, it is all too easy to a blitz TG campaign to get quorum and with the planets rightly aligned, be at vote.

The arguments that mods are always watching make no sense; as Mister Bear has pointed, NS has had a "Max Barry Day" once, not too much time ago.

And whilst not illegal, we could ALL have been spared the embarrassing spectacle of Repeal "Nuclear Arms Possession Act", spear-headed by Kohlhaasenbruck, which just squeaked by through quorum, hours before it was AT VOTE. The threshold was around 53-54, I think. It did not attain 60 before being AT VOTE.
Last edited by Sionis Prioratus on Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Cathérine Victoire de Saint-Clair
Haute Ambassadrice for the WA for
✡ The Jewish Kingdom of Sionis Prioratus
Daughter of The Late King Adrian the First
In the Name of
Sa Majesté Impériale Dagobert VI de Saint-Clair
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Morlago
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Re: Quorum

Postby Morlago » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:29 pm

The point is with so many proposals in the queue to reach quorum, there are 4 pages of proposals with both the GA and SC combined. Not everybody reads four pages of boring old proposals that are 10 million words. I know there are some ridiculous proposals like the "No guns allowed" proposal, but some that are quite well done, like my ex-proposal of Civilian Protection Act (not praising myself), are not reaching quorum because of the pages and pages of proposals. We should either lower the quorum percentage or increase the voting time.
Last edited by Morlago on Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Minister of WA Affairs of
The United Islands of Morlago
Yë Morre Waidamün i Mórlago

DEFCON: 1 2 (Low) 3 4 5 6


Economic Left/Right: -1.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.33
Graph
Center-left social moderate.
Left: 2.2, Libertarian: 0.75
Foreign Policy: -6.11 (Non-interventionalist)
Culture: -6.31 (Cultural liberal)

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Valipac
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Re: Quorum

Postby Valipac » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:25 am

Morlago wrote:The point is with so many proposals in the queue to reach quorum, there are 4 pages of proposals with both the GA and SC combined. Not everybody reads four pages of boring old proposals that are 10 million words. I know there are some ridiculous proposals like the "No guns allowed" proposal, but some that are quite well done, like my ex-proposal of Civilian Protection Act (not praising myself), are not reaching quorum because of the pages and pages of proposals. We should either lower the quorum percentage or increase the voting time.

After flipping through the pages of proposals, the only ones worthy of reaching quorum already have. I check the proposal list quite frequently, and it is extremely rare for a well written proposal that has been discussed in the WA forum to not make it to quorum.
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Bears Armed
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Re: Quorum

Postby Bears Armed » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:21 am

Morlago wrote:The point is with so many proposals in the queue to reach quorum, there are 4 pages of proposals with both the GA and SC combined. Not everybody reads four pages of boring old proposals that are 10 million words. I know there are some ridiculous proposals like the "No guns allowed" proposal, but some that are quite well done, like my ex-proposal of Civilian Protection Act (not praising myself), are not reaching quorum because of the pages and pages of proposals. We should either lower the quorum percentage or increase the voting time.

The problem is, if we do lower the number of approvals needed for quorum then a silly or outright proposal could come out of nowhere and get into the queue before the number of approvals needed could be raised again to prevent this.
Although it seems that proposals that have already reached the queue can now be deleted -- which apparently wasn't the case when 'Max Barry Day' got there -- so that wouldn't be as much of a problem.
"Hr'rmm..."
On the other paw, a low quorum requirement could still allow proposals that were 'legal' enough for immunity from "legitimate" deletion but still not really worth the WA's attention to get through into the queue and -- even if the many voters who seem not to read past titles don't get them passed -- obstruct the works.

One idea that I've considered suggesting, from time to time, is that if a proposal gets sufficiently close to quorum within the usual time-limit -- with, say, 80% of the minimum number of approvals that would be needed to qualify -- then it should automatically recieve a one-day extension to its stay in the submissions list... because any proposal that can get that close could probably make it to quorum anyway on the next attempt, if its sponsor (& perhaps other supporters) increased their lobbying efforts slightly...
Last edited by Bears Armed on Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

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Ardchoille
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Re: Quorum

Postby Ardchoille » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:39 am

As far as I know, nothing has changed about when proposals can be deleted. It has always been possible to delete proposals after they reach quorum, and it still is.

What isn't possible is to delete a proposal when it is officially At Vote. As I recall, Max Barry Day beat Hack's delete click by mere minutes.

If you see a shocker approaching At Vote, please put an urgent request in the Moderation forum or Getting Help. (And, of course, don't try using this to get a legal proposal of which you disapprove deleted.)
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Naivetry
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Re: Quorum

Postby Naivetry » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:42 pm

Morlago wrote:The point is with so many proposals in the queue to reach quorum, there are 4 pages of proposals with both the GA and SC combined. Not everybody reads four pages of boring old proposals that are 10 million words. I know there are some ridiculous proposals like the "No guns allowed" proposal, but some that are quite well done, like my ex-proposal of Civilian Protection Act (not praising myself), are not reaching quorum because of the pages and pages of proposals. We should either lower the quorum percentage or increase the voting time.

You can also send TGs (within reason) to delegates asking them to support your proposal.

But I would recommend posting on the offsite forum, if the region has one, if you would like a more positive response.

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Morlago
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Re: Quorum

Postby Morlago » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:36 pm

Naivetry wrote:
Morlago wrote:The point is with so many proposals in the queue to reach quorum, there are 4 pages of proposals with both the GA and SC combined. Not everybody reads four pages of boring old proposals that are 10 million words. I know there are some ridiculous proposals like the "No guns allowed" proposal, but some that are quite well done, like my ex-proposal of Civilian Protection Act (not praising myself), are not reaching quorum because of the pages and pages of proposals. We should either lower the quorum percentage or increase the voting time.

You can also send TGs (within reason) to delegates asking them to support your proposal.

But I would recommend posting on the offsite forum, if the region has one, if you would like a more positive response.

But the matter is, how on Earth are you going to telegram the same thing to more than 800 nations without getting VERY tired?
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Minister of WA Affairs of
The United Islands of Morlago
Yë Morre Waidamün i Mórlago

DEFCON: 1 2 (Low) 3 4 5 6


Economic Left/Right: -1.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.33
Graph
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Foreign Policy: -6.11 (Non-interventionalist)
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Morlago
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Re: Quorum

Postby Morlago » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:37 pm

Valipac wrote:
Morlago wrote:The point is with so many proposals in the queue to reach quorum, there are 4 pages of proposals with both the GA and SC combined. Not everybody reads four pages of boring old proposals that are 10 million words. I know there are some ridiculous proposals like the "No guns allowed" proposal, but some that are quite well done, like my ex-proposal of Civilian Protection Act (not praising myself), are not reaching quorum because of the pages and pages of proposals. We should either lower the quorum percentage or increase the voting time.

After flipping through the pages of proposals, the only ones worthy of reaching quorum already have. I check the proposal list quite frequently, and it is extremely rare for a well written proposal that has been discussed in the WA forum to not make it to quorum.

P.S. Not everybody has the time and patience to go through so many proposals, Valipac.
Angelo Gervoski
Minister of WA Affairs of
The United Islands of Morlago
Yë Morre Waidamün i Mórlago

DEFCON: 1 2 (Low) 3 4 5 6


Economic Left/Right: -1.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.33
Graph
Center-left social moderate.
Left: 2.2, Libertarian: 0.75
Foreign Policy: -6.11 (Non-interventionalist)
Culture: -6.31 (Cultural liberal)

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Naivetry
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Re: Quorum

Postby Naivetry » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:11 pm

Morlago wrote:But the matter is, how on Earth are you going to telegram the same thing to more than 800 nations without getting VERY tired?

You don't need to TG 800 of them - just 50 who answer positively.

Personally, I would go through proposals that made it to quorum and TG the nations who supported those. That way, you know that they know something about the WA proposal system - at least enough to approve one. If they don't want to pass your proposal on for a vote, chances are there's something wrong with it.

And possibly hit up the delegates with the most endorsements (not just the Pacifics... and definitely contact the Pacifics on their off-site forums...).

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Ardchoille
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Re: Quorum

Postby Ardchoille » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:13 am

Morlago wrote:But the matter is, how on Earth are you going to telegram the same thing to more than 800 nations without getting VERY tired?


This is why it is a good idea to make friends in the WA. :D Many hands make TGs fly!
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Valipac
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Re: Quorum

Postby Valipac » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:18 pm

Morlago wrote:
Valipac wrote:
Morlago wrote:The point is with so many proposals in the queue to reach quorum, there are 4 pages of proposals with both the GA and SC combined. Not everybody reads four pages of boring old proposals that are 10 million words. I know there are some ridiculous proposals like the "No guns allowed" proposal, but some that are quite well done, like my ex-proposal of Civilian Protection Act (not praising myself), are not reaching quorum because of the pages and pages of proposals. We should either lower the quorum percentage or increase the voting time.

After flipping through the pages of proposals, the only ones worthy of reaching quorum already have. I check the proposal list quite frequently, and it is extremely rare for a well written proposal that has been discussed in the WA forum to not make it to quorum.

P.S. Not everybody has the time and patience to go through so many proposals, Valipac.

It takes about 5 minutes to flip through the pages and read the ones that look halfway decent. It's not that much to ask, and it's worked for years.
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Bears Armed
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Re: Quorum

Postby Bears Armed » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:15 am

Valipac wrote:
Morlago wrote:P.S. Not everybody has the time and patience to go through so many proposals, Valipac.

It takes about 5 minutes to flip through the pages and read the ones that look halfway decent. It's not that much to ask, and it's worked for years.

Right. Don't start grumbling unless & until the list ever gets back up to 20 pages...
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

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Starblaydia
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Re: Quorum

Postby Starblaydia » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:19 am

Once you get past all the ones that are two lines long, the ones that are patently awful, or the ones that are nations commending their own region or condemning someone else for some minor slight, you only have about ten to read.
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