by France Europe » Sat May 27, 2023 10:15 am
by Republic of Mesque » Sat May 27, 2023 10:34 am
by Querria » Sun May 28, 2023 12:16 am
France Europe wrote:This is a joint statement by members of Liberty Democratic Alliance, the Frontier Sea and the organizer of Jellyfish Elite Fighting Force (United Democratic Christian States), whose effort in the Global Trade Fair was unrecognized in the News event summary and given very limited visibility by the platform.
Inclusivity is not a forte of NationStates. Recognition of minor regions is hardly on the agenda, and this pervades even after a global event, during which such regions have a chance to excel, compete in the world stage, and improve their visibility, by receiving deserved props.
In the News Page and anywhere else aside from the Global Trade Fair Leaderboards, the achievement of the minor regions and their key players was diminished and excluded. In such important events for the platform, it should be proud to cherish these results, not hide or neglect to mention them. Therefore, we have brought them to you as a mark of the extraordinary work done by key players, whose sacrifice was never acknowledged.
Liberty Democratic Alliance: 3333 Gold Bullion.
New record of all stashed products in Gold Bullion (1101 more than last year's record by Suspicious in Uranium).
The largest margin of difference by the three "different regions" that achieved first place, with 1195 Gold Bullion above 2nd place, in contrast to Max's affirmation that Lily "came pretty close to a clean sweep".
Contributions by major player Republic of Mesque and subsidiaries with a total of 2849 Gold Bullion (in contrast to Lily's total of 2138).
Jellyfish Elite Fighting Force: 2766 Uranium.
A margin of difference of 629 Uranium above 2nd place.
Contributions by major players of United Front/Divide subsidiaries (1082), Bendicion and subsidiaries (468).
The Frontier Sea: 2035 Sticky Labels.
A margin of difference of 526 Sticky Labels above 2nd place.
Contributions by major player Diatian Isles with a total of 1897 Sticky Labels (in contrast to Lily's total of 1509).
As well as the combined efforts of participating members of the three regions, to finally achieve the numbers highlighted. A full overview, kindly tallied and provided by Diatian Isles, is available here.
The statement by Max in the News, while we believe was not intentionally reductive, did fail to present the success outlined above to the wider NationStates community. We believe that this herculean effort is not something to be held in contempt, as many of us have taken their time of rest or work to participate in an event that offered an opportunity to promote our communities. This effort achieved little to no reward, as the platform did not take any of the above data in account. The nations involved and their regions were let down as the sacrifices exerted by these players were never outlined, except in a now obscure and archived leaderboard.
We would also like to point out that this statement in no way seeks to belittle Lily's victory in the event - we congratulate them on their achievement. In fact, we also believe that the five key players of that region deserve the utmost respect and also a proper analysis that fittingly highlights their achievements.
In conclusion, we want to believe that NationStates has a commitment with the recognition of the deeds of its players, and that the results presented in the data we compiled are not meaningless or unworthy of a commemorative citation. We request that data be better analyzed in future events, so that extraordinary effort is properly investigated, mentioned and rewarded. We want to believe there is not a systemic demeanor that is dismissive to players, which, despite statistically significant achievements, have had or will have their manifestations disdained by others, as we have seen happen in other instances of these Forums.
We are available to further discuss this with the moderation team and give any other suggestions regarding the proper recognition of these results - if not for this event, then, hopefully, for the future.
France Europe wrote:Inclusivity is not a forte of NationStates
by Sweeze » Sun May 28, 2023 12:56 am
by France Europe » Sun May 28, 2023 2:51 am
Sweeze wrote:it's painfully obvious you've never done gameplay before this event
by Sweeze » Sun May 28, 2023 3:29 am
France Europe wrote:Sweeze wrote:it's painfully obvious you've never done gameplay before this event
Thank you for your response. But, respectfully, it's precisely this kind of contempt that we denounce, the very fact that nations and communities with less experience and importance are often at best ignored, at worse mocked in NationStates.
Do we have less gameplay experience than many others? Yes, certainly. But does that take away our right to speak out and raise this sort of issue? Absolutely not.
We shouldn't hierarchize communities and minimize the importance of small ones, but rather welcome the fact that "small" communities are still so willing to take part in these events, given their chances of success, the recognition that follows, and that kind of attitude.
by France Europe » Sun May 28, 2023 7:05 am
Sweeze wrote:France Europe wrote:Thank you for your response. But, respectfully, it's precisely this kind of contempt that we denounce, the very fact that nations and communities with less experience and importance are often at best ignored, at worse mocked in NationStates.
Do we have less gameplay experience than many others? Yes, certainly. But does that take away our right to speak out and raise this sort of issue? Absolutely not.
We shouldn't hierarchize communities and minimize the importance of small ones, but rather welcome the fact that "small" communities are still so willing to take part in these events, given their chances of success, the recognition that follows, and that kind of attitude.
i think you misunderstood what i was trying to say, im not trying to hold you in contempt for not being a gameplayer. im saying this is just what gameplay is like and always has been, and events are part of gameplay. if you want to be recognized then tell people why you should be recognized, create a story out of the event that they'll remember. it's not the job of the news post to make people recognize the work you put in, thats *your* job.
by Republic of Mesque » Sun May 28, 2023 7:56 am
Sweeze wrote:it's painfully obvious you've never done gameplay before this event
Sweeze wrote:if you want to be recognized then tell people why you should be recognized, create a story out of the event that they'll remember. it's not the job of the news post to make people recognize the work you put in, thats *your* job.
France Europe wrote:Also, I have enough of this reductive and very conservative argument in NationStates, which consists, for those who benefit from the way things are, in saying: that's the way it is and always has been. This means that anyone who questions how things work is not only portrayed as ignorant (when it comes to gameplay, for example), but also as an unreasonable agitator.
by United Democratic Christian States » Sun May 28, 2023 5:22 pm
by United Democratic Christian States » Sun May 28, 2023 5:33 pm
by Thorn1000 » Mon May 29, 2023 1:05 pm
United Democratic Christian States wrote:However I do also think this just maybe more of a Trade Fair problem rather than an event problem
Out of the 2 other annual events every year, winners aren’t talked about at all to my knowledge in Z-Day.
And on N-Day they do at least put up the top 10 in total score as well as the top 10 regions with the best score per capita
So I think we already have a blueprint/something to build off of to reach what we are trying to achieve
walrus wrote:Life is a zero-sum game. The lower I make the happiness of children, the higher my happiness rises
by Republic of Mesque » Mon May 29, 2023 3:08 pm
United Democratic Christian States wrote:Personally I think this hurts these regions, as more often than not the more successful ones in events are tight knit community’s with a vibrant culture and are places I think a lot of people on this site might want to call home if they could get some more exposure.
So rewarding these small regions with something as simple as a quick shoutout is entirely fair.
by Sedgistan » Tue May 30, 2023 4:30 am
by Republic of Mesque » Tue May 30, 2023 3:46 pm
Sedgistan wrote:I doubt you'll get a response from Admin on this. You might from Chingis when he's next around (he's busy at the moment, and has been for a little while), who is the Events Development Manager, i.e. responsible for things like the Global Trade Fair.
That wasn't possible with this year's GTF as Chingis wasn't around, and I don't think we had another mod particularly involved in it.
Sedgistan wrote:I believe the intent is to generally move towards News post write-ups being written by staff more involved with the events (which would often by Chingis) - Chingis wrote up the Best Nation and latest N-Day events; Aav and then myself did the preceding N-Days. Admin tends only to be involved in events in a "stop the servers having a meltdown" fashion and their understanding is therefore limited to main points of the leaderboards; some mods participate quite heavily in them and are therefore better able to provide a more in-depth write up.
That's not a guarantee that future News posts for events won't be written by Admin, or that News posts will cite everyone who does well - but there's more chance of it.
by United Democratic Christian States » Wed May 31, 2023 1:47 pm
Sedgistan wrote:I doubt you'll get a response from Admin on this. You might from Chingis when he's next around (he's busy at the moment, and has been for a little while), who is the Events Development Manager, i.e. responsible for things like the Global Trade Fair.
I believe the intent is to generally move towards News post write-ups being written by staff more involved with the events (which would often by Chingis) - Chingis wrote up the Best Nation and latest N-Day events; Aav and then myself did the preceding N-Days. Admin tends only to be involved in events in a "stop the servers having a meltdown" fashion and their understanding is therefore limited to main points of the leaderboards; some mods participate quite heavily in them and are therefore better able to provide a more in-depth write up. That wasn't possible with this year's GTF as Chingis wasn't around, and I don't think we had another mod particularly involved in it.
That's not a guarantee that future News posts for events won't be written by Admin, or that News posts will cite everyone who does well - but there's more chance of it.
by Chingis » Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:37 pm
by Republic of Mesque » Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:09 pm
Chingis wrote:He has arrived! Firstly, let me fully disclose the fact that I am one of the co-founders of Lily, back in June of 2017 (though I have stepped away from anything except being the Discord server admin since becoming a mod). I promise that this did not affect my views on this thread.
This is a very interesting topic, and one that I have spent some deal of time over the last few days thinking about. The simple answer is that I think that this is a fair comment, and that the moderation should do a better job of recognizing the achievements of small regions in these events. I will throw Max under the bus here slightly and say that it is much harder for him to do this, since he doesn't get involved much in the site itself. Possibly this a sign that it should be the mods that write the news reports for events going forward. I will do my best to be the one to do this, or to pick someone to do it in my stead going forward, and to be more mindful of the efforts of smaller regions.
This is far from a strict guarantee of anything, but do know that your concerns have been heard and are something I will be keeping in mind.
I hope that alleviates some of your worries.
by United Democratic Christian States » Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:54 pm
Awesome! I look forward to seeing the upcoming event posts thenChingis wrote:He has arrived! Firstly, let me fully disclose the fact that I am one of the co-founders of Lily, back in June of 2017 (though I have stepped away from anything except being the Discord server admin since becoming a mod). I promise that this did not affect my views on this thread.
This is a very interesting topic, and one that I have spent some deal of time over the last few days thinking about. The simple answer is that I think that this is a fair comment, and that the moderation should do a better job of recognizing the achievements of small regions in these events. I will throw Max under the bus here slightly and say that it is much harder for him to do this, since he doesn't get involved much in the site itself. Possibly this a sign that it should be the mods that write the news reports for events going forward. I will do my best to be the one to do this, or to pick someone to do it in my stead going forward, and to be more mindful of the efforts of smaller regions.
This is far from a strict guarantee of anything, but do know that your concerns have been heard and are something I will be keeping in mind.
I hope that alleviates some of your worries.
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