NATION

PASSWORD

Residency badge concerns?

Bug reports, general help, ideas for improvements, and questions about how things are meant to work.
User avatar
Jim the Baptist
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 199
Founded: Aug 08, 2019
Tyranny by Majority

Residency badge concerns?

Postby Jim the Baptist » Sat Apr 16, 2022 2:48 am

So Dabarastan and I noticed that Womble has almost 15,000 accounts within Chicken Overlords (and growing) and we are concerned about the residency badge. Based on the current trajectory, number of accounts and the fact that the accounts do not get deactivated, at a certain future date this will result in Womble occupying both the top 1% and 5% badges for this stat. That means that for players who either created their accounts or changed regions from today, every rank required for a top 1 or 5% residency badge would be occupied (or essentially blocked) by a Womble puppet by the time they would otherwise be eligible to have a badge for this stat. Would moderation do anything in this event?
Last edited by Jim the Baptist on Sat Apr 16, 2022 2:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Klaus Devestatorie
Minister
 
Posts: 2728
Founded: Aug 28, 2008
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Klaus Devestatorie » Sat Apr 16, 2022 2:56 am

Probably not. If you take a gander through the current top 1,000 nations, you'll see that a very large percentage of them are already from the same small group of regions/organisations, such as Eastern Roman Empire and Macedonia. Nobody in Chicken Overlords has a rank higher than about 17,000. I'd bet most of that top 1,000 will outlast the existence of Chicken Overlords.
Last edited by Klaus Devestatorie on Sat Apr 16, 2022 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
You don't know a thing about the squad.

User avatar
Riemstagrad
Diplomat
 
Posts: 989
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby Riemstagrad » Sat Apr 16, 2022 5:03 am

This goes up for several other stats. It's called "the Womble Wall".

User avatar
Mallorea and Riva
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 9796
Founded: Sep 29, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Sat Apr 16, 2022 6:23 am

Jim the Baptist wrote:So Dabarastan and I noticed that Womble has almost 15,000 accounts within Chicken Overlords (and growing) and we are concerned about the residency badge. Based on the current trajectory, number of accounts and the fact that the accounts do not get deactivated, at a certain future date this will result in Womble occupying both the top 1% and 5% badges for this stat. That means that for players who either created their accounts or changed regions from today, every rank required for a top 1 or 5% residency badge would be occupied (or essentially blocked) by a Womble puppet by the time they would otherwise be eligible to have a badge for this stat. Would moderation do anything in this event?

Moderation wouldn't do anything, since it's not a moderation issue.

On the technical side, what would you propose as a solution (assuming there is a problem)?
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Major of The Black Hawks
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Tal and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
Frattastan quote of the month: I only steal soaps and shampoos from the friend who lets me stay on their couch when I have to be in some other city.
GR quote of the month: Yes mall is right

User avatar
9003
Diplomat
 
Posts: 544
Founded: Oct 25, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby 9003 » Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:12 am

Mallorea and Riva wrote:
Jim the Baptist wrote:So Dabarastan and I noticed that Womble has almost 15,000 accounts within Chicken Overlords (and growing) and we are concerned about the residency badge. Based on the current trajectory, number of accounts and the fact that the accounts do not get deactivated, at a certain future date this will result in Womble occupying both the top 1% and 5% badges for this stat. That means that for players who either created their accounts or changed regions from today, every rank required for a top 1 or 5% residency badge would be occupied (or essentially blocked) by a Womble puppet by the time they would otherwise be eligible to have a badge for this stat. Would moderation do anything in this event?

Moderation wouldn't do anything, since it's not a moderation issue.

On the technical side, what would you propose as a solution (assuming there is a problem)?



Assuming that a massive number of nations is or could cause server issues implementing a soft cap on them similar to cards with deck capacity. There’s little to no reason to have more than 10k nations if you look at the biggest puppet owners most aside form Womble are under a couple hundred. For some data backing my claim up a little https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/ ... =733627866 this encompass the publicly listed puppets in the card’s community the highest card farmers are only at a few hundred (with the highest R/Ders not to far beyond that.

If the womble wall isn’t causing server issues than let it be sure stats get skewed and maybe we need a more random spawn stats but that feels like a lot of work for little reward.
proud member of PETZ people for the Ethical Treatment of Zombies

Active member of The cards market place discord

User avatar
Jim the Baptist
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 199
Founded: Aug 08, 2019
Tyranny by Majority

Postby Jim the Baptist » Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:07 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:
Jim the Baptist wrote:So Dabarastan and I noticed that Womble has almost 15,000 accounts within Chicken Overlords (and growing) and we are concerned about the residency badge. Based on the current trajectory, number of accounts and the fact that the accounts do not get deactivated, at a certain future date this will result in Womble occupying both the top 1% and 5% badges for this stat. That means that for players who either created their accounts or changed regions from today, every rank required for a top 1 or 5% residency badge would be occupied (or essentially blocked) by a Womble puppet by the time they would otherwise be eligible to have a badge for this stat. Would moderation do anything in this event?

Moderation wouldn't do anything, since it's not a moderation issue.

On the technical side, what would you propose as a solution (assuming there is a problem)?

One way would be an account cap enforced the same way as WA membership.
Last edited by Jim the Baptist on Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Panagouge
Envoy
 
Posts: 245
Founded: Aug 03, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Panagouge » Sun Apr 17, 2022 2:39 pm

Jim the Baptist wrote:One way would be an account cap enforced the same way as WA membership.

No mod is willing to enforce nation ownership quotas. Nor is there any feasible technical solution to tracking people's puppets down that won't overload the serves. And it's not going to happen out of the blue after all these years of not doing it.
I exist, and so do you.

User avatar
Frisbeeteria
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 26691
Founded: Dec 16, 2003
Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Sun Apr 17, 2022 4:13 pm

Pretty much every suggestion here is wrong. I'm not going to break operational security and tell you why or how.

I'd love to see puppetry limited, and there is a known fix for it. The residency badge aspect is barely even the tip of the iceberg. All it takes is a complete revamp of the core code, and probably weeks or months of downtime. Needless to say, don't hold your breath waiting for it.

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22116
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Wallenburg » Sun Apr 17, 2022 4:28 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:I'd love to see puppetry limited, and there is a known fix for it.

This is a self-contradictory statement.
I want to improve.
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Kiu Ghesik wrote:harris' interpretation of bidenism and subsequent establishment of a bidenist vanguard party to root out malarkey and revisionist elements in society was revisionist in and of itself and should never have been implemented.

King of Snark, Minister of World Assembly Affairs, Arbiter for The East Pacific

User avatar
Mallorea and Riva
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 9796
Founded: Sep 29, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:01 pm

Wallenburg wrote:
Frisbeeteria wrote:I'd love to see puppetry limited, and there is a known fix for it.

This is a self-contradictory statement.

Please unpack that for the benefit of those who aren't sure why you think that's the case.
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Major of The Black Hawks
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Tal and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
Frattastan quote of the month: I only steal soaps and shampoos from the friend who lets me stay on their couch when I have to be in some other city.
GR quote of the month: Yes mall is right

User avatar
Seanat
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 57
Founded: Mar 09, 2018
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Seanat » Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:17 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:On the technical side, what would you propose as a solution (assuming there is a problem)?

Not specifically talking about Residency, I have previously suggested a technical change to reduce stat walls: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=509445

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22116
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Wallenburg » Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:06 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:This is a self-contradictory statement.

Please unpack that for the benefit of those who aren't sure why you think that's the case.

Let us assume these truths:
A: Fris knows of a fix to puppet spam.
B: Fris is an admin.
C: Fris wants to fix puppet spam.
Q: Fris does not attempt to fix puppet spam.

Let us also define these truth statements:
D: Fris has the power to fix puppet spam.
E: ¬Q (Fris attempts to fix puppet spam.)

A ∧ B ⇒ D (If Fris knows of a fix to puppet spam and is an admin, then Fris has the power to fix puppet spam.)
D ∧ C ⇒ E (If Fris has the power to fix puppet spam and wants to fix puppet spam, then Fris attempts to fix puppet spam.)
∴ A ∧ B ∧ C ⇒ E (If Fris knows of a fix to puppet spam, is an admin, and wants to fix puppet spam, then Fris attempts to fix puppet spam.)
or A ∧ B ∧ C ⇒ ¬Q

This is a valid argument, but obviously not a sound one, since we defined Q as true and ¬Q as false.
Thus, one of our defined truths is incorrect. We examine the possible truth states:
(A ∧ B ∧ C ⇒ ¬Q) ⇔ (¬(A ∧ B ∧ C) ∨ ¬Q)
∴ ¬A ∨ ¬B ∨ ¬C ∨ ¬Q

We know Fris is an admin (B) and that Fris does not attempt to fix puppet spam (Q), so:
(B ∧ Q) ∧ (¬A ∨ ¬B ∨ ¬C ∨ ¬Q)
(B ∧ Q ∧ ¬A) ∨ (B ∧ Q ∧ ¬C)
(B ∧ Q) ∧ (¬A ∨ ¬C)
∴ ¬A ∨ ¬C (Fris does not know a fix to puppet spam or does not want to fix it.) Q.E.D.
Last edited by Wallenburg on Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I want to improve.
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Kiu Ghesik wrote:harris' interpretation of bidenism and subsequent establishment of a bidenist vanguard party to root out malarkey and revisionist elements in society was revisionist in and of itself and should never have been implemented.

King of Snark, Minister of World Assembly Affairs, Arbiter for The East Pacific

User avatar
Frisbeeteria
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 26691
Founded: Dec 16, 2003
Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:18 pm

Wallenburg wrote:B: Fris is an admin.

No, Fris is a Senior Game Moderator. Fris is not and never has been a coder.

I also don't know the math of the rest of your logic proof, but when your core assumption fails, so does your argument.

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22116
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Wallenburg » Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:22 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:B: Fris is an admin.

No, Fris is a Senior Game Moderator. Fris is not and never has been a coder.

I also don't know the math of the rest of your logic proof, but when your core assumption fails, so does your argument.

Ah, so the blue name means something else behind the scenes. In that case, it would seem that the reason for the apparent contradiction is that upper admin does not share your desire to fix puppet spam.
I want to improve.
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Kiu Ghesik wrote:harris' interpretation of bidenism and subsequent establishment of a bidenist vanguard party to root out malarkey and revisionist elements in society was revisionist in and of itself and should never have been implemented.

King of Snark, Minister of World Assembly Affairs, Arbiter for The East Pacific

User avatar
Bears Armed
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20894
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:28 pm

Wallenburg wrote:
Frisbeeteria wrote:No, Fris is a Senior Game Moderator. Fris is not and never has been a coder.

I also don't know the math of the rest of your logic proof, but when your core assumption fails, so does your argument.

Ah, so the blue name means something else behind the scenes. In that case, it would seem that the reason for the apparent contradiction is that upper admin does not share your desire to fix puppet spam.

Fris already explained why they're not doing it: "All it takes is a complete revamp of the core code, and probably weeks or months of downtime. Needless to say, don't hold your breath waiting for it."
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474, 1521.

User avatar
Mallorea and Riva
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 9796
Founded: Sep 29, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:59 pm

Wallenburg wrote:
Frisbeeteria wrote:No, Fris is a Senior Game Moderator. Fris is not and never has been a coder.

I also don't know the math of the rest of your logic proof, but when your core assumption fails, so does your argument.

Ah, so the blue name means something else behind the scenes. In that case, it would seem that the reason for the apparent contradiction is that upper admin does not share your desire to fix puppet spam.

It means Fris is a Senior Game Moderator - a more experienced game moderator. That has nothing to do with being an Admin.

You missed the point of Fris's post. It's not that we don't know of a way to limit multiple accounts - it's that implementing that fix is so labor intensive as to not be feasible, particularly in light of the fact that there isn't a clear, urgent problem in need of solving to justify the effort.
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Major of The Black Hawks
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Tal and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
Frattastan quote of the month: I only steal soaps and shampoos from the friend who lets me stay on their couch when I have to be in some other city.
GR quote of the month: Yes mall is right

User avatar
Wayneactia
Senator
 
Posts: 3556
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wayneactia » Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:05 pm

Wallenburg wrote:
Frisbeeteria wrote:No, Fris is a Senior Game Moderator. Fris is not and never has been a coder.

I also don't know the math of the rest of your logic proof, but when your core assumption fails, so does your argument.

Ah, so the blue name means something else behind the scenes. In that case, it would seem that the reason for the apparent contradiction is that upper admin does not share your desire to fix puppet spam.

It literally says “Senior Game Moderator” right under Fris’s flag. Admins are clearly listed as Administrators……..
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait


Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Technical

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Advertisement

Remove ads