Ignore List and Regional Message Boards

[Toerana]

Why are we still talking about the mute button, didn't the NS staff say it wasn't going to happen?

(Wrong Thread & Minds can be changed)

[Esternial]

I had a suspicion there was some hard link between a Nation and its Region.

Perhaps the alternative could be a stripped down Region (lacking first and foremost a RMB) with a WFE instructing residents to go elsewhere if they want to participate in the Gameside activities?

Would probably require some tinkering to be able to "disable" a region's RMB.

For the sake of multi-functionality you *could* also add it to the Mod toolkit as a way to punish regions: e.g. no RMB for an hour.

Then there is no reason for TRR to exist if you do that. It would be much easier to simply create a new community then code that in.When you heard that TRR was an ejection free zone, people that you find problematic will end up there, now you're trying to send them off to another place.

Indeed, that's the point. That way TRR will be on the same level as all other regions, with the same toolkit at its disposal.

The difference with the new and modified "Catcher Region" suggested by is that it wouldn't have the tools to become a community, like the RMB.

If TRR's want to retain its special status it will have to accept the fact it can never have all the same powers as a normal region, so the solution is simple: make it a normal region and take away its special role.

[The Church of Satan]

If TRR's want to retain its special status it will have to accept the fact it can never have all the same powers as a normal region, so the solution is simple: make it a normal region and take away its special role.

We're asking for one feature. We're perfectly content with being NationStates only non-ejection region. We just want a way to manage our own RMB. Even the warzones can manage their own RMB. Why should we be the only ones that can't? We don't even have a use for influence. So we can have more drawbacks than benefits, and a game mechanic that literally does nothing for us, but we can't have any control over our own RMB? That's utterly ridiculous. -_-

[Esternial]

If TRR's want to retain its special status it will have to accept the fact it can never have all the same powers as a normal region, so the solution is simple: make it a normal region and take away its special role.

We're asking for one feature. We're perfectly content with being NationStates only non-ejection region. We just want a way to manage our own RMB. Even the warzones can manage their own RMB. Why should we be the only ones that can't? We don't even have a use for influence. So we can have more drawbacks than benefits, and a game mechanic that literally does nothing for us, but we can't have any control over our own RMB? That's utterly ridiculous. -_-

I'm guessing that (underlined) has to do with being NationStates' only non-ejection region. Changes made to TRR are potentially a lot more impactful.

Hence my suggestion. Proper equality.

EDIT: Moved my sidetrack to a separate thread: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=510994

[Trotterdam]

Why do you choose to live in a region with special rules if you don't like those rules?

[Flanderlion]

Why do you choose to live in a region with special rules if you don't like those rules?

It's like the people moving house to beside stadiums/raceways then forcing the stadiums/raceways out with noise complaints.

[Sedgistan]

This thread is on RMB ignore lists, as set out in Eluvatar's OP. Please don't threadjack it with other suggestions because you're unhappy they got rejected in the thread that's actually there to discuss them in.

[The Church of Satan]

Changes made to TRR are potentially a lot more impactful.

That depends on how it's changed. A basic function to oversee our own RMB would help maintain order. This ignore list does absolutely nothing about it.

Rules in NationStates have changed several times over the years because of this very reason. Because eventually everyone realized something was wrong. And slowly but surely, new features were added to rectify those errors. This is no different.

The ignore list would be a really nice addition to the site. And it would help a lot of individual players in a lot of regions. There's only one that it wouldn't help though.

[Visionary Union]

If NS doesn't have enough technical staff, it should hire more. This is how it should work- If your current staff isn't sufficient, you get more.
Also, a suggested solution was to give to ROs with comm perms the ability to temporarily mute nations from posting on the RMB, essentially giving them RMB ban. This feature already exists for moderators, so it wouldn't require creating it from scratch to let the ROs mute nations.
In addition, both Sedge and CG, the 'resident' TRR moderators have stated that there is a universal disagreement (among site staff) to such a feature, because reasons (read: homophobia, racism and anti vaxxer talking points are valuable discussions, apparently), so I somehow doubt that there will be a significant change.

Site staff can correct me, but I think NS operates on a "best effort" basis - as if often the case with free services. "Just hire more" (.e. demanding the site owner pays more money so we can get more new features faster) is maybe something we can ask for, but not expect or demand. But, again, you can always recommend a Moderator - maybe one that has some useful technical skills. Technical staff isn't exclusively paid staff - some are volunteers (like the Blaatschapen).

I think in your frustration you are also misinterpreting a lack of (immediate) action as active endorsement of views. I'm guessing any disagreement on the topic could come from differing opinions the dangers of giving such an ability to non site staff. You and I may only see the benefit, not the potential risks (and impacts it might have on the overall Gameplay elements).

Site staff being in disagreement would also be a sign that the topic is being discussed. You're not simply being ignored.

As for the feature in this topic: I'm not sure it will fix the issues you're facing, but perhaps it could be one part of a wider solution for your community.

NS runs on a volunteer staff. I don't know that anyone gets paid, even [violet]. And it is very difficult, I hear, to find people who are willing to spend hours and hours of unpaid time working with the code and players on this site.

It's sometimes even very difficult to find people who are willing to spend hours and hours of PAID time working with certain code and customers.

I believe that someone mentioned while discussing this subject that NS does have paid staff- but if you say it doesn't, I certainly don't know for certain to contradict, so we will skip that point.

I think in your frustration you are also misinterpreting a lack of (immediate) action as active endorsement of views. I'm guessing any disagreement on the topic could come from differing opinions the dangers of giving such an ability to non site staff. You and I may only see the benefit, not the potential risks (and impacts it might have on the overall Gameplay elements). .

There is no need to patronise, it is uncalled for and unneeded. It is also wrong, as I said earlier, according to Sedge and CG there is universal disagree to pretty much all meaningful suggestions put forth by Rejects to actually deal with the issues that plague our RMB, hence my 'pessimism' (or just acknowledging reality, you know?). In addition, pretty much every single feature that NS has (ejection, suppression, banning, endorsements etc) has been abused. Giving a single region, just TRR as it uniquely doesn't have the ability to eject unwanted nations a way to deal with trolls isn't too much to ask, in my opinion.

[RiderSyl]

The ignore list would be a really nice addition to the site. And it would help a lot of individual players in a lot of regions. There's only one that it wouldn't help though.

I understand the point you're making, but this would help people in TRR too. It's just not enough help.

[Lamoni]

Vis, there are no paid staff on NS, just so you know. It is all volunteer labor.

[Visionary Union]

Vis, there are no paid staff on NS, just so you know. It is all volunteer labor.

Noted.

[The Church of Satan]

Vis, there are no paid staff on NS, just so you know. It is all volunteer labor.

Not even [violet]?

[Lamoni]

Not even [violet].

[This Unaligned Ant]

max keeping all the cookies for himself smh

[Eluvatar]

I would be against this. Blocking a nation's telegrams doesn't mean I don't want to see anything that nation does, especially when it's part of a larger conversion where I'll still be seeing the one half of the conversation and just get confused if I can't see the other half.

This is a good reason not to hide the posts entirely.

If the posts are still there, just suppressed, it would be easy enough to figure out what's going on, though.

On that subject, down the line would we want to do something about quotes of suppressed posts?

Would we want to treat suppressed-because-blocked differently from suppressed-by-regional-officer (or for that matter, suppressed-by-mod?)

[RiderSyl]

On that subject, down the line would we want to do something about quotes of suppressed posts?

I mean, only if it's feasible to implement. Judging by how the NS forums still have an issue with people quoting nuked adbots, I doubt it is.

Would we want to treat suppressed-because-blocked differently from suppressed-by-regional-officer (or for that matter, suppressed-by-mod?)

The ability to see the suppressed-because-blocked post, similar to how one can click "Display this post" to see posts hidden by the Foe List. Suppressed-by-RO and suppressed-by-mod need no equivalent feature.

[Eluvatar]

Meaning that an RO or a mod can very well suppress posts quoting the suppressed post if they want to, so no assumptions need be made?

[RiderSyl]

Meaning that an RO or a mod can very well suppress posts quoting the suppressed post if they want to, so no assumptions need be made?

Sure. I've seen that happen already with ROs using the existing suppression methods. Mods doing it may elicit responses of "but I didn't say anything bad!" and/or "my free speech!!", but that's par for the course.

[Unibot III]

We have a gameside ignore list. A user can add nations to their nation's ignore list, and their nation will not receive telegrams from nations on that list.

It would not be particularly difficult to adapt this ignore list to also affect Regional Message Boards.

I would appreciate people's thoughtful consideration of whether this would be beneficial, and whether it would be better to suppress (perhaps with more barriers for viewing like an "are you sure?" popup) or hide such posts entirely from the perspective of the nation who has the poster in question on its ignore list.

In my opinion, it's a fine idea, Elu, for a few reasons: (1) because it allows players to distance themselves from players (like me!) that annoy/frustrate/vex them without removing themselves from their regional community, and (2) it does so in a way that doesn't impact the community, the region, and anyone else... it's a form of self-moderation.

Not every "ignore" is about noxious views or social politics, sometimes you "ignore" someone because they're just a narcissitic a-hole and you don't like hearing them speak every ten minutes - and it's okay, so you shouldn't have to.

One thing I will say however is it's not a sufficient answer to the problem facing TRR, because TRRers will inevitably have to "de-ignore" parts of the RMB to engage with racist, homophobic content or disinformation (because it's not good enough to ignore this stuff, a lot of TRRers will feel a social responsibility to follow these conversations, engage, debate, and counter), and particularly troublesome players will adopt new identities to boost their reach on the RMB if engagement is low.

However, just because it's not a solution to TRR's problem, doesn't mean it's not a good idea that is broadly beneficial for NationStates. It can satisfy the latter without satisfying the former.

In terms of what is facing TRR, I think the next few months will be critical - if the behaviour continues, TRR wil be able substantiate why moderation needs to rethink the situation in TRR and respond to Sedge et. al., if the behaviour doesn't continue, the crisis will effectively blow over (which is good for everyone).

[Trotterdam]

As for the original idea - I'd be in support of it, but decouple the new RMB ignore list from the TG ignore list, for the reason Trotterdam provided.

Well, sure. So long as the features are separate, the addition of a new feature wouldn't bother me, though I probably wouldn't use it.

On that subject, down the line would we want to do something about quotes of suppressed posts?

Would we want to treat suppressed-because-blocked differently from suppressed-by-regional-officer (or for that matter, suppressed-by-mod?)

On the forum, moderators have enough finesse to be able to edit a quote out of a post without removing the entire post. On RMBs, I'm not sure if moderators have that ability, and regional officers certainly don't. So automated support for this could be useful.

However, note that this isn't foolproof, because quote tags can be typed in freely and don't necessarily have to correctly identify who they're actually quoting. On the forum, it's common for people to get lazy and just type a quote tag without identifying information on the quotee at all. On RMBs, this doesn't work since the code fails to parse if you don't give a nation name and post ID, but it's still possible to give an invalid or incorrect nation name and/or post ID (and there are sometimes useful reasons to want to "quote" someone other than another player, so I wouldn't want to remove this ability).

There are times where you really want to suppress the reply as well as the quote, but that can already be done with existing tools.