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by Sedgistan » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:06 am
by RiderSyl » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:50 am
Sedgistan wrote:That's not to say that colossal regions aren't bad for other reasons, e.g. the dominance of the population ranking by puppet-flooded regions and GCRs, the interference those puppets cause with stats rankings, effects on update.
by Flanderlion » Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:01 am
Frisbeeteria wrote:RiderSyl wrote:surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.
By the same logic I could argue that your forum posting style annoys everyone, and ban you. But nope, that's not how it works.Flanderlion wrote:You don't seem to get that each nation takes resources, and when players have excessive amounts, it takes away resources that could be used elsewhere.
IRL, sure. Here, the only thing it takes away is bragging rights on the census.
Sheepy Hollow wrote:Do we have statistics on how many nations CTE every night?
What about how many nations CTE'd on the 28th day after Drew's first NS video? His second?
I'm certain it had to be a lot. Did the servers melt down and refuse to work; or were they just really slow? Did these mass extinction events cause any major bugs?
If not then it's probably not anything that players need to worry about; and should be left for admin to figure out their own. If so; then those bugs should be reported to admin so that the next mass extinction doesn't cause them again.
Sedgistan wrote:Some technical context on this - a change a little while ago means that the problems caused by nations rushing into and out of massive regions at update are no longer the issue they were. A remaining related issue is to do with the regional history record, which in some cases are hundreds of pages long -- but that's more to do with a lengthy history of tag raiding rather than region size.
That's not to say that colossal regions aren't bad for other reasons, e.g. the dominance of the population ranking by puppet-flooded regions and GCRs, the interference those puppets cause with stats rankings, effects on update.
by Sedgistan » Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:09 am
RiderSyl wrote:Sedgistan wrote:That's not to say that colossal regions aren't bad for other reasons, e.g. the dominance of the population ranking by puppet-flooded regions and GCRs, the interference those puppets cause with stats rankings, effects on update.
How bad does it have to become for NS staff to actually do something about it? What if another region with Chicken Overlord's objective (be larger than anyone else) shows up and the two have the nation population equivalent of a pile-off? R/D is proof that NSers will make a game out of things admin didn't intend, after all.
by RiderSyl » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:52 am
Sedgistan wrote:RiderSyl wrote:How bad does it have to become for NS staff to actually do something about it? What if another region with Chicken Overlord's objective (be larger than anyone else) shows up and the two have the nation population equivalent of a pile-off? R/D is proof that NSers will make a game out of things admin didn't intend, after all.
Well I'm definitely not going to answer that question, because it'd inevitably cause someone to go and create a 15k nation region to prove a point.
by Parhe » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:59 am
Sandaoguo wrote:So, uh, which game features *do* any of NS leadership care about? If a feature, like census rankings, is disrupted by user actions… most games would care enough about the functionality of their features to consider it a problem needing addressed.
Massive puppet farms are effectively a denial of service issue for various game features. But it seems like The Rules are immovable and unchangeable, and unless DoS-like behavior from players is already in The Rules, it can’t possibly be a problem.
Sedgistan wrote:Some technical context on this - a change a little while ago means that the problems caused by nations rushing into and out of massive regions at update are no longer the issue they were. A remaining related issue is to do with the regional history record, which in some cases are hundreds of pages long -- but that's more to do with a lengthy history of tag raiding rather than region size.
That's not to say that colossal regions aren't bad for other reasons, e.g. the dominance of the population ranking by puppet-flooded regions and GCRs, the interference those puppets cause with stats rankings, effects on update.
by Porde » Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:24 pm
RiderSyl wrote:It's probably closer to actionable under the "for the purpose of spamming" part of the rule, rather than "purpose of annoying" part of the rule. CO is undeniably an instance of large numbers of puppets created to spam the game. It's only avoided violating the rule by exercising a loophole in it - You can't puppet flood a region if the region you're flooding with spam puppets is your own region.
by Jar Wattinree » Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:09 am
Porde wrote:All of the puppets are in anarchic government: 97.33 is 1%, 96.88 is 6%.
It damages the average authoritarianism scale of the world
by Jar Wattinree » Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:10 pm
by Les Claypool » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:27 pm
Parhe wrote:Why not prevent colossal regions from simply existing by limiting the size of regions? The fact that no UCR, except for puppet holding regions, has ever exceeded five to seven thousand accounts (and even with those close, many were puppets) and is not near it now seems to indicate that no one else would be "hurt" by the large regions existing. Also, are three regions of four thousand accounts "better" for update than having one region of twelve thousand accounts?
by The Kingdom of the Three Isles » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:29 pm
Haganham wrote:RiderSyl wrote:I actually think this could potentially qualify as a moderation issue. Puppet Flooding is against the rules, right? The language of the rule says that the flooding must be for the purpose of annoying a specific region, but surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.
Chicken overlords isn't puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying anyone though, nore for spamming. They're doing it to be the biggest region.
Those who say they are based aren’t based. Those who say they are humble ain’t humble. Those who say they are chads ain’t chads.Ordo Theutonicorum wrote: they have a cross-pattee on their flag??
by Parhe » Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:55 pm
Les Claypool wrote:Parhe wrote:Why not prevent colossal regions from simply existing by limiting the size of regions? The fact that no UCR, except for puppet holding regions, has ever exceeded five to seven thousand accounts (and even with those close, many were puppets) and is not near it now seems to indicate that no one else would be "hurt" by the large regions existing. Also, are three regions of four thousand accounts "better" for update than having one region of twelve thousand accounts?
Then every founderless region that cares or some defenders will just over time, fill the region to the cap to prevent raids. There's ways around puppet flooding rules, most likely done over a length of time and avoiding spamming happenings and all that.
by Apatosaurus » Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:00 pm
Haganham wrote:RiderSyl wrote:I actually think this could potentially qualify as a moderation issue. Puppet Flooding is against the rules, right? The language of the rule says that the flooding must be for the purpose of annoying a specific region, but surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.
Chicken overlords isn't puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying anyone though, nore for spamming. They're doing it to be the biggest region.
by RiderSyl » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:26 am
Thatun t wrote:I think it is better to close chicken overloads
by CoraSpia » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:37 am
by RiderSyl » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:49 am
CoraSpia wrote:RiderSyl wrote:Agree 100% this^!!!
Hmm, this sort of reply doesn't feel constructive. Why are we doing this?
Why does this thread even exist? The admins haven't said there is an issue with this particular region and until they do I'm disinclined to believe it's something that needs fixing.
by CoraSpia » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:00 am
RiderSyl wrote:CoraSpia wrote:Why does this thread even exist? The admins haven't said there is an issue with this particular region and until they do I'm disinclined to believe it's something that needs fixing.
For someone that's had experience as an admin elsewhere, you're awfully oblivious to the importance of player feedback.
by Unibot III » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:01 am
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Comfed » Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:23 am
Haganham wrote:RiderSyl wrote:I actually think this could potentially qualify as a moderation issue. Puppet Flooding is against the rules, right? The language of the rule says that the flooding must be for the purpose of annoying a specific region, but surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.
Chicken overlords isn't puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying anyone though, nore for spamming. They're doing it to be the biggest region.
by Apatosaurus » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:19 pm
Unibot III wrote:-snip-
by WayNeacTia » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:10 pm
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac
wait
by Les Claypool » Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:57 pm
Parhe wrote:Les Claypool wrote:
Then every founderless region that cares or some defenders will just over time, fill the region to the cap to prevent raids. There's ways around puppet flooding rules, most likely done over a length of time and avoiding spamming happenings and all that.
That is a possibility but one I doubt would actually happen. Even if it was done, I don't see an issue with the regions finding a way to opt out of R/D. Of course, then there is the larger issue of raiders doing this with a region, which would make it impossible to liberate, so point taken.
As for the rest, the suggestion was to counter problems with large regions effecting the technical side, not a large number of nations effecting the technical side.
by Haganham » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:11 am
[/quote]Les Claypool wrote:Parhe wrote:Why not prevent colossal regions from simply existing by limiting the size of regions? The fact that no UCR, except for puppet holding regions, has ever exceeded five to seven thousand accounts (and even with those close, many were puppets) and is not near it now seems to indicate that no one else would be "hurt" by the large regions existing. Also, are three regions of four thousand accounts "better" for update than having one region of twelve thousand accounts?
Then every founderless region that cares or some defenders will just over time, fill the region to the cap to prevent raids. There's ways around puppet flooding rules, most likely done over a length of time and avoiding spamming happenings and all that.
by Les Claypool » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:26 am
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