NATION

PASSWORD

Chicken Overlords and game health

Bug reports, general help, ideas for improvements, and questions about how things are meant to work.

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
USS Juneau
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 17
Founded: Jun 23, 2021
Left-Leaning College State

Postby USS Juneau » Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:07 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
Haganham wrote: Absolutely. I've heard staff mention more serious issues that are old enough to drink. Some talk about the site in ways that make me think that bit about hamsters may not be jest.

Pretty sure the servers are running on an up to date VPS and not a 386 in Max's basement closet, so let's be real here okay?

It's not necessarily just hardware issues, it could also be serious software problems due to legacy code. See: the (unknown beyond "there's a serious security flaw") reason why we now have an image host whitelist on the forums instead of letting players self-host their images.
Aav
Doer of things
Discord Tag: Aav#7546



My Projects: Chaylia | some code things on github that I'm too lazy to link rn

User avatar
Wayneactia
Senator
 
Posts: 3559
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wayneactia » Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:05 pm

USS Juneau wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Pretty sure the servers are running on an up to date VPS and not a 386 in Max's basement closet, so let's be real here okay?

It's not necessarily just hardware issues, it could also be serious software problems due to legacy code. See: the (unknown beyond "there's a serious security flaw") reason why we now have an image host whitelist on the forums instead of letting players self-host their images.

It is very possible. That may have also been due to the proliferation of porn spammers as well.
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

User avatar
Archinstinct
Diplomat
 
Posts: 634
Founded: Jan 21, 2021
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Archinstinct » Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:39 pm

If the number of nations a person possesses is an issue, then add a paywall. If somebody wants to have more than 9000 nations they can have it as a premium feature if they help contribute to the game's maintenance.
My posts are generally "ooc".
Stand with Ukraine. If you see Russian Propaganda on social media, report it. Donate if you can to help Ukraine's refugees and it's defense. Lobby your government to send Ukraine weapons.
RIP 'Fight for Ukraine' Discord - nuked by putin simps 4/18/2022.
Deblar wrote:If even Switzerland is opposing your imperialist invasion, you know you've fucked up

User avatar
Haganham
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1038
Founded: Aug 17, 2021
Father Knows Best State

Postby Haganham » Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:08 am

Archinstinct wrote:If the number of nations a person possesses is an issue, then add a paywall. If somebody wants to have more than 9000 nations they can have it as a premium feature if they help contribute to the game's maintenance.

that would require a way to automatically track how many nations people have, which we don't.
Remember kids, if it doesn't have private property rights, competitive markets and voluntary exchange then it's just sparkling feudalism.
TITO Tactial Officer
Assistant WA secretary: 10000 Islands, TEP
Praefectus Praetorio, Caesar: Oatland
Cartographer: Forest

User avatar
Omnicontrol
Secretary
 
Posts: 27
Founded: Sep 03, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Omnicontrol » Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:20 pm

Archinstinct wrote:If the number of nations a person possesses is an issue, then add a paywall. If somebody wants to have more than 9000 nations they can have it as a premium feature if they help contribute to the game's maintenance.

No. Shut the fuck up and take those stupid Pay2Play ideas to another game, like P&W or something more stupid (assuming it's possible to be more stupid than P&W). NS is a game where money doesn't affect gameplay, skills do. I could NOT think of a stupider way to gain money in a FREE game.
Summer in the hills - those hazy days I do remember




Omnicontrol: North Korea, but with devotion to capitalism.

User avatar
The H Corporation
Minister
 
Posts: 2141
Founded: Apr 21, 2020
Anarchy

Postby The H Corporation » Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:30 pm

Archinstinct wrote:If the number of nations a person possesses is an issue, then add a paywall. If somebody wants to have more than 9000 nations they can have it as a premium feature if they help contribute to the game's maintenance.

That would make NS a pay2play site when it is supposed to be open to all and free, just like a website but with nations and some kind of social media (Normally General Forum) and a place to have fun (Mostly F7 but PTM can be as well), to RP (PTM), etc. With this you are literally limiting the site to people who can't afford even a premium in Spotify (Like me T-T).

Anyway, I agree with what the OP says, I really doubt Chicken Overlords need that many puppets that have become a technical issue, and that probably needs a resolution, though I actually don't know myself how to make that work but I certainly agree with the OP
Welcome to The H Corporation
Money is everything, whether you like it or not
You don't like dark theme? Well good luck reading this >:D
Just a Mexican o((>ω< ))o. Talks nonsense whenever possible and loves cats. Cats are cute (^///^). Still writing Factbooks. If I cared about politics then I wouldn't need to visit 8values. "Life is like a rollercoaster, you have to pay to ride it" This nation does not represent my views and it will never do. College is hard, you know what else is hard? Life. Now making flags: Here! Hey look! I am here: Holy High
8values RightValues LeftValues 9axes PoliticalSextant
You want some lore? Here take this Not finished Lore (Heavy WIP) I am not lazy to finish it, I am just waiting for you to finish reading
Is a Corporation scary for you?
Boo!

User avatar
Fauzjhia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1604
Founded: Jul 29, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fauzjhia » Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:05 am

The H Corporation wrote:
Archinstinct wrote:If the number of nations a person possesses is an issue, then add a paywall. If somebody wants to have more than 9000 nations they can have it as a premium feature if they help contribute to the game's maintenance.

That would make NS a pay2play site when it is supposed to be open to all and free, just like a website but with nations and some kind of social media (Normally General Forum) and a place to have fun (Mostly F7 but PTM can be as well), to RP (PTM), etc. With this you are literally limiting the site to people who can't afford even a premium in Spotify (Like me T-T).

Anyway, I agree with what the OP says, I really doubt Chicken Overlords need that many puppets that have become a technical issue, and that probably needs a resolution, though I actually don't know myself how to make that work but I certainly agree with the OP


the solution is simple.
Wait until a nation has answered 18 issues to start ranking them.
its really not that hard.
Warning Political position : Far-Left, self-identify as liberal-communist. also as Feminist, atheist, ecologist and nationalist.
Support : non-corrupt state, human rights, women rights, wild life protection, banning fossil fuel, cooperatives, journalists, Radio-Canada, Télé-Quebec, public media, public service, nationalization, freedom and right to be informed, Quebec's Independence, Protection of the French Language, Immigration right and integration.
TRR card giver, Register here to get a chance to free legendary cards from the The rejected pacific nations. Everyone is welcome

User avatar
Sedgistan
Senior Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 32136
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:58 am

Omnicontrol wrote:
Archinstinct wrote:If the number of nations a person possesses is an issue, then add a paywall. If somebody wants to have more than 9000 nations they can have it as a premium feature if they help contribute to the game's maintenance.

No. Shut the fuck up and take those stupid Pay2Play ideas to another game, like P&W or something more stupid (assuming it's possible to be more stupid than P&W). NS is a game where money doesn't affect gameplay, skills do. I could NOT think of a stupider way to gain money in a FREE game.

*** Warned for flaming ***

User avatar
Honeydewistania
Minister
 
Posts: 3494
Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Honeydewistania » Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:20 am

I think if 9000 puppets really is a problem, a paywall is a good idea. If you want to waste server space (if it does), then you pay for it. It’s not like more than 5 people have even close to 9000 puppets or other game breaking numbers anyway


she/her
Represented by Benji Schubert Hepperle in the WA


[the] ice age [is] coming

User avatar
Minoa
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5032
Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Minoa » Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:52 am

Depending on how long it takes for the new Frontiers/Strongholds system to come into effect, I see that the following temporary measures could be possible (a bit rough though, sorry):

  1. Definitely introduce additional regions to relieve pressure caused by the number of nations spawning in the Pacifics, Balder, Osiris and Lazarus.
  2. If any of the feeder/respawn regions have more than roughly 5,000 nations, and there is at least one region below that limit, then that region gets no new/revived nations.
  3. If all the feeder/respawn regions have more than roughly 5,000 nations, then six of the lowest populated of such regions (three feeders, three respawns) get priority.
  4. Cap the number of nations in a user-created region to roughly 7,500 nations. Existing regions above that limit will continue as now, but will not accept new nations until it falls below the limit.
The Rejected Realms do not appear to be above 5,000 nations, but I would establish The North/East/South/West Rejected Realms to give some flavour and hope to exiled nations.

I do not know what was the all-time peak for the number of nations in the world (a number that I would like to include in NSindex too), but I am not seeing any case for a puppetsweep against Chicken Overlords as a player, especially considering what Haganham has stated.
Mme A. d'Oiseau, B.A. (State of Minoa)

User avatar
Fauzjhia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1604
Founded: Jul 29, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fauzjhia » Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:28 am

Minoa wrote:Depending on how long it takes for the new Frontiers/Strongholds system to come into effect, I see that the following temporary measures could be possible (a bit rough though, sorry):

  1. Definitely introduce additional regions to relieve pressure caused by the number of nations spawning in the Pacifics, Balder, Osiris and Lazarus.
  2. If any of the feeder/respawn regions have more than roughly 5,000 nations, and there is at least one region below that limit, then that region gets no new/revived nations.
  3. If all the feeder/respawn regions have more than roughly 5,000 nations, then six of the lowest populated of such regions (three feeders, three respawns) get priority.
  4. Cap the number of nations in a user-created region to roughly 7,500 nations. Existing regions above that limit will continue as now, but will not accept new nations until it falls below the limit.
The Rejected Realms do not appear to be above 5,000 nations, but I would establish The North/East/South/West Rejected Realms to give some flavour and hope to exiled nations.

I do not know what was the all-time peak for the number of nations in the world (a number that I would like to include in NSindex too), but I am not seeing any case for a puppetsweep against Chicken Overlords as a player, especially considering what Haganham has stated.



WOAH, dividing my region ?
ho please. We dislike how big the feeders, the sinkers and some other regions, but come on, don't divide the rejected realms.
Warning Political position : Far-Left, self-identify as liberal-communist. also as Feminist, atheist, ecologist and nationalist.
Support : non-corrupt state, human rights, women rights, wild life protection, banning fossil fuel, cooperatives, journalists, Radio-Canada, Télé-Quebec, public media, public service, nationalization, freedom and right to be informed, Quebec's Independence, Protection of the French Language, Immigration right and integration.
TRR card giver, Register here to get a chance to free legendary cards from the The rejected pacific nations. Everyone is welcome

User avatar
Guy
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1824
Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Guy » Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:30 am

If large regions are genuinely a risk to the health of the website, a maximum region size formula that relies on the number of WA nations I think is a sensible solution. Of course, I expect enforcement of this to largely be an ad-hoc issue, so Admin/moderation can work with the player(s) concerned to ensure their region comes in under the desired size.

I would think a sufficiently large number of nations can also cause website issues. Of course, having a lot of puppets and maintaining them via scripts can be for legitimate gameplay reasons (and that are beneficial for the game), e.g. cards, R/D, etc. I am not sure whether any rules already touch on this, but this could also be addressed if not. It is probably difficult to more specifically define "legitimate gameplay reasons", and again I imagine this would involve Admin/moderation working directly with the player concerned. And I imagine there would be a response if someone tried creating e.g. 1 million nations, whether under the ToU or some rule.

If these issues only arise out of an inconvenience to R/Ders, the balance is somewhat different. I think the long-held (and correct) consensus is that long updates are detrimental to R/D. The balance here is probably somewhat different, though, because the group of detrimentally-affected players is smaller.
Last edited by Guy on Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Commander of the Rejected Realms Army

[violet] wrote:Never underestimate the ability of admin to do nothing.

User avatar
Minoa
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5032
Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Minoa » Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:11 pm

Fauzjhia wrote:
Minoa wrote:Depending on how long it takes for the new Frontiers/Strongholds system to come into effect, I see that the following temporary measures could be possible (a bit rough though, sorry):

  1. Definitely introduce additional regions to relieve pressure caused by the number of nations spawning in the Pacifics, Balder, Osiris and Lazarus.
  2. If any of the feeder/respawn regions have more than roughly 5,000 nations, and there is at least one region below that limit, then that region gets no new/revived nations.
  3. If all the feeder/respawn regions have more than roughly 5,000 nations, then six of the lowest populated of such regions (three feeders, three respawns) get priority.
  4. Cap the number of nations in a user-created region to roughly 7,500 nations. Existing regions above that limit will continue as now, but will not accept new nations until it falls below the limit.
The Rejected Realms do not appear to be above 5,000 nations, but I would establish The North/East/South/West Rejected Realms to give some flavour and hope to exiled nations.

I do not know what was the all-time peak for the number of nations in the world (a number that I would like to include in NSindex too), but I am not seeing any case for a puppetsweep against Chicken Overlords as a player, especially considering what Haganham has stated.



WOAH, dividing my region ?
ho please. We dislike how big the feeders, the sinkers and some other regions, but come on, don't divide the rejected realms.

Okay, that was my bad because I do not really know if the admins consider anything between 2,500 and 5,000 as "too large". :blush:
Mme A. d'Oiseau, B.A. (State of Minoa)

User avatar
Slatos Empire
Secretary
 
Posts: 26
Founded: Nov 19, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Slatos Empire » Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:23 pm

This sounds like more of an annoyance to a few players that the largest region is puppets then an actual issue.

User avatar
RiderSyl
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6088
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:41 pm

I actually think this could potentially qualify as a moderation issue. Puppet Flooding is against the rules, right? The language of the rule says that the flooding must be for the purpose of annoying a specific region, but surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.
R.I.P. Dyakovo
Sylvia Montresor

Ashmoria
Karpathos
~ You may think I’m small, but I have a universe inside my mind. ~

User avatar
The Kingdom of the Three Isles
Diplomat
 
Posts: 718
Founded: Jun 01, 2021
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Kingdom of the Three Isles » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:43 pm

RiderSyl wrote:I actually think this could potentially qualify as a moderation issue. Puppet Flooding is against the rules, right? The language of the rule says that the flooding must be for the purpose of annoying a specific region, but surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.

Can you link the rules for me?
Gender: Male
Religion: Christianity
Political Compass: LibRight
Moral Alignment: Neutral Good
No, this is not the Iron Cross, and no I ain’t a N@zi.
IC name is The Three Isles
Those who say they are based aren’t based. Those who say they are humble ain’t humble. Those who say they are chads ain’t chads.

User avatar
RiderSyl
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6088
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:44 pm

The Kingdom Of The Three Isles wrote:
RiderSyl wrote:I actually think this could potentially qualify as a moderation issue. Puppet Flooding is against the rules, right? The language of the rule says that the flooding must be for the purpose of annoying a specific region, but surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.

Can you link the rules for me?

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=260044#016
Puppet Flooding: Any player or group of players creating large numbers of puppets for the purpose of spamming, harassing, or annoying a region, be they invaders, defenders, or natives, may find all such puppets ... and their main nations ... deleted without warning. Note that Moderators do not enforce regional bans unless a player has a significant record of harassing members of the region (i.e. prior rule-breaking). In other circumstances, it should be handled by the Regional Officers.
R.I.P. Dyakovo
Sylvia Montresor

Ashmoria
Karpathos
~ You may think I’m small, but I have a universe inside my mind. ~

User avatar
RiderSyl
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6088
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:52 pm

It's probably closer to actionable under the "for the purpose of spamming" part of the rule, rather than "purpose of annoying" part of the rule. CO is undeniably an instance of large numbers of puppets created to spam the game. It's only avoided violating the rule by exercising a loophole in it - You can't puppet flood a region if the region you're flooding with spam puppets is your own region.
R.I.P. Dyakovo
Sylvia Montresor

Ashmoria
Karpathos
~ You may think I’m small, but I have a universe inside my mind. ~

User avatar
Haganham
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1038
Founded: Aug 17, 2021
Father Knows Best State

Postby Haganham » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:56 pm

RiderSyl wrote:I actually think this could potentially qualify as a moderation issue. Puppet Flooding is against the rules, right? The language of the rule says that the flooding must be for the purpose of annoying a specific region, but surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.

Chicken overlords isn't puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying anyone though, nore for spamming. They're doing it to be the biggest region.
Last edited by Haganham on Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Remember kids, if it doesn't have private property rights, competitive markets and voluntary exchange then it's just sparkling feudalism.
TITO Tactial Officer
Assistant WA secretary: 10000 Islands, TEP
Praefectus Praetorio, Caesar: Oatland
Cartographer: Forest

User avatar
Parhe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8303
Founded: May 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Chicken Overlords and game health

Postby Parhe » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:44 am

RiderSyl wrote:I actually think this could potentially qualify as a moderation issue. Puppet Flooding is against the rules, right? The language of the rule says that the flooding must be for the purpose of annoying a specific region, but surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.

I doubt the main person behind CO is doing so with the motivation of annoying others. Some people might feel that what he does is annoying but that doesn't make it his intent.

RiderSyl wrote:It's probably closer to actionable under the "for the purpose of spamming" part of the rule, rather than "purpose of annoying" part of the rule. CO is undeniably an instance of large numbers of puppets created to spam the game. It's only avoided violating the rule by exercising a loophole in it - You can't puppet flood a region if the region you're flooding with spam puppets is your own region.

Which is precisely why this action is acceptable. He isn't spamming anyone but himself and people who knowingly choose to be in said region. . .sort of

I suppose some could argue the action of creating puppets and moving them into CO does create extra "activity" in the regions said accounts are spawned into, but that sounds like a dangerous precedence. I wonder how staff would feel about declaring such things spam. By that logic, a planned raid or liberation could be considered spamming by a group.
Hey, it is Parhe :D I am always open to telegrams.
I know it is a Work-In-Progress, but I would love it if y'all looked at my new factbook and gave me some feedback!

BRING BACK THE ICE CLIMBERS

User avatar
Flanderlion
Minister
 
Posts: 2085
Founded: Nov 25, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Flanderlion » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:49 am

Parhe wrote:
RiderSyl wrote:I actually think this could potentially qualify as a moderation issue. Puppet Flooding is against the rules, right? The language of the rule says that the flooding must be for the purpose of annoying a specific region, but surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.

I doubt the main person behind CO is doing so with the motivation of annoying others. Some people might feel that what he does is annoying but that doesn't make it his intent.

RiderSyl wrote:It's probably closer to actionable under the "for the purpose of spamming" part of the rule, rather than "purpose of annoying" part of the rule. CO is undeniably an instance of large numbers of puppets created to spam the game. It's only avoided violating the rule by exercising a loophole in it - You can't puppet flood a region if the region you're flooding with spam puppets is your own region.

Which is precisely why this action is acceptable. He isn't spamming anyone but himself and people who knowingly choose to be in said region. . .sort of

I suppose some could argue the action of creating puppets and moving them into CO does create extra "activity" in the regions said accounts are spawned into, but that sounds like a dangerous precedence. I wonder how staff would feel about declaring such things spam. By that logic, a planned raid or liberation could be considered spamming by a group.

You don't seem to get that each nation takes resources, and when players have excessive amounts, it takes away resources that could be used elsewhere.
As always, I'm representing myself.
Information
Wishlist

User avatar
Frisbeeteria
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 26694
Founded: Dec 16, 2003
Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:32 am

RiderSyl wrote:surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.

By the same logic I could argue that your forum posting style annoys everyone, and ban you. But nope, that's not how it works.

Flanderlion wrote:You don't seem to get that each nation takes resources, and when players have excessive amounts, it takes away resources that could be used elsewhere.

IRL, sure. Here, the only thing it takes away is bragging rights on the census.

User avatar
Sandaoguo
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 413
Founded: Apr 07, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Sandaoguo » Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:16 am

So, uh, which game features *do* any of NS leadership care about? If a feature, like census rankings, is disrupted by user actions… most games would care enough about the functionality of their features to consider it a problem needing addressed.

Massive puppet farms are effectively a denial of service issue for various game features. But it seems like The Rules are immovable and unchangeable, and unless DoS-like behavior from players is already in The Rules, it can’t possibly be a problem.
Last edited by Sandaoguo on Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
RiderSyl
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6088
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:39 am

Frisbeeteria wrote:
RiderSyl wrote:surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.

By the same logic I could argue that your forum posting style annoys everyone, and ban you. But nope, that's not how it works.

My forum posting style hasn't inspired a technical thread, so I don't think that comparison works, Fris.
Last edited by RiderSyl on Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
R.I.P. Dyakovo
Sylvia Montresor

Ashmoria
Karpathos
~ You may think I’m small, but I have a universe inside my mind. ~

User avatar
Sheepy Hollow
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Mar 13, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Sheepy Hollow » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:48 am

Do we have statistics on how many nations CTE every night?

What about how many nations CTE'd on the 28th day after Drew's first NS video? His second?

I'm certain it had to be a lot. Did the servers melt down and refuse to work; or were they just really slow? Did these mass extinction events cause any major bugs?

If not then it's probably not anything that players need to worry about; and should be left for admin to figure out their own. If so; then those bugs should be reported to admin so that the next mass extinction doesn't cause them again.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Technical

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Port Myreal, SherpDaWerp

Advertisement

Remove ads