Frontiers, Governors, Successors and Injunctions

[Lenlyvit]

And adding onto the successor thing even more, in 10000 Islands beta testing I had Parsend as the appointed successor nation. Then I transferred the region to a Frontier, which worked as expected, but after the process was completed Parsend still had the "Successor" RO position with that designated power. I think that when a region is transferred from a Stronghold to a Frontier it should also remove the Successor like it does with the Governor.

[Improper Classifications]

Visual glitch: When changing governor name or appointing a successor the world assembly and executive boxes are checked and grayed.

[Refiria]

You can add/remove the Frontier tag. This should definitely be locked, like Founderless, regional size tags, feeder, catcher, sinker, restorer, etc. etc.

[Flying Eagles]

To add on to what Lenlyvit said about being unable to bestow Executive powers to the delegate, I can’t seem to remove executive authority from the delegate as a Stronghold founder.

Also, it says on the admin page that the governor only has complete authority while resident in the region, but I can do important things like initiate a Stronghold/Frontier switch while outside the region? Can you clarify if this is intended?

[Refiria]

Is it possible to make the succession line arrangeable by the current Governer? It appears that the WA delegate is always first in line if it has successor authority, which may not be preferable in certain cases.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Is it possible to make the succession line arrangeable by the current Governer? It appears that the WA delegate is always first in line if it has successor authority, which may not be preferable in certain cases.

Yes, and it seems automatically applied on election.

This would not be preferable in many regions that, for example, treat founder/governor as like an "admin" position, and delegate as an elected position with limited terms, who would want someone not delegate to be the first admin in line. Many would much rather have a designed RO as the admin-successor with priority, and give the delegate lower priority (or even exclude them from succession entirely!)

Obviously in other cases the Delegate needs to become one, i.e. to transition back, but I don't think they should always be #1 in normal regions - normal regions should be able to order them lower or skip them entirely, and reordering in general should be possible between RO's and especially in normal regions.

[Notanam]

You can add/remove the Frontier tag. This should definitely be locked, like Founderless, regional size tags, feeder, catcher, sinker, restorer, etc. etc.

building on to this, there seems to be an "undefined" tag right now that appears in the region as an empty string. is this a placeholder for something? possibly a stronghold tag?

[Bassiliya]

Playing around with succession... Once a successor takes their role as governor, I feel like whatever office they had as successor should automatically be removed as they are now the governor.

[Notanam]

For founders, initiating the change to stronghold from frontier costs no influence, so the text regarding the influence cost of switching frontier status (below) should be changed for them. Note that this is purely cosmetic and the switch is initiated like normal.

[Leutria]

For founders, initiating the change to stronghold from frontier costs no influence, so the text regarding the influence cost of switching frontier status (below) should be changed for them. Note that this is purely cosmetic and the switch is initiated like normal.
(Image)

If I recall correctly, I thought founders were not supposed to have any special privileges in frontier regions. So I would think the glitch is it costing no influence?

[Grea Kriopia]

I think I very successfully broke something


I snuck into West's region, made myself del, and started the process to revert the frontier back to stronghold. I resigned WA on my delegacy nation but kept it in the region before the transition was complete though, so the region is now stuck like this

edit: or, maybe not, Ioke 2 is now governor post-region update

[Flying Eagles]

Also, for delegates that are simultaneously appointed as another office, the resign button is kinda confusing as it appears to suggest one can resign from Delegate when they’d actually resign from their other office.

[Notanam]

For founders, initiating the change to stronghold from frontier costs no influence, so the text regarding the influence cost of switching frontier status (below) should be changed for them. Note that this is purely cosmetic and the switch is initiated like normal.
(Image)

If I recall correctly, I thought founders were not supposed to have any special privileges in frontier regions. So I would think the glitch is it costing no influence?

Yep, I'm either definitely missing something or the code is broken. I switched delegacy to a non founder nation and tried the switch with essentially no influence. The estimate was still more than 10 times but it still allowed me to go through with it without cost.

[United Calanworie]

I think I very successfully broke something
(Image)

I snuck into West's region, made myself del, and started the process to revert the frontier back to stronghold. I resigned WA on my delegacy nation but kept it in the region before the transition was complete though, so the region is now stuck like this

edit: or, maybe not, Ioke 2 is now governor post-region update

Seems to be un-broke, yup. Yay for update!

[Racoda]

4.
(Image)

Sinkers are sinkers, not restorers. Don't do this.

This a much older change: viewtopic.php?p=39019443#p39019443

5.
(Image)

This ranking is wrong

This happens on NS too after moving a bunch of nations into a (new) region - the rankings don't immediately update.

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The rest seems related to Frontiers.

[Refuge Isle]

Seconds ago: Became a Frontier.

Something seems to be damaged here, but who knows what

[Merni]

There seem to be several bugs with the working of Regional Officers in non-frontier (stronghold) regions. (All tested with "Mernis 2nd Region", fyi.)

1. You cannot make a Delegate non-executive in a stronghold.
   1. If you try to found a stronghold with a non-exec Delegate, the delegate gets executive power anyway.
   2. If you (as Governor) try to remove executive power from the Delegate, this just gets you back to page=region_control with no error or success message, but the Delegate retains executive power.
2. The current Governor can appoint themselves as successor -- but doing so doesn't actually give them that power (see the green message vs. the RO table). If you choose the default "Successor" from the dropdown, that creates an RO position with no powers.
   
   
   Editing that RO position seems to imply that the it has Executive and WA powers somehow. The same goes for renaming the Governor position, which should never have WA powers.
   
   
   But clicking "Enact changes" there just pretends to have removed a nonexistent successor power:
   
   
   Appointing the current Governor as a successor doesn't really make sense anyway, and probably shouldn't be possible to do.

[Sedgistan]

Lots of good feedback so far - please keep it coming. It's easier for admin to make bulk changes, so I'll wait a while before compiling a list and we'll have those drop to NS3 at the same time.

I'm going to flag the lack of Frontier foundings with Violet now just to check everything is in order there.

You can add/remove the Frontier tag. This should definitely be locked, like Founderless, regional size tags, feeder, catcher, sinker, restorer, etc. etc.

building on to this, there seems to be an "undefined" tag right now that appears in the region as an empty string. is this a placeholder for something? possibly a stronghold tag?

Those should both be fixed.

[Merni]

The transition times for frontier->stronghold and vice versa are inconsistently shown. The warning says 0.0416666666666667 days (1 hour), but when you actually start the transition, it says it will take something between 7 and 10 hours. This is the case for both directions.



I will update later on how much time it actually ends up taking.

Edit: Also, could the length of updates on NS3 be reduced? They appear to be taking about 2 hours at the moment, and a higher frequency of updates would help with testing.

[Cappedore]

Idk if this has been mentioned yet, but the way that the Frontier banner clips in with a regional flag can be annoying :)

[A Bloodred Moon]

The transition times for frontier->stronghold and vice versa are inconsistently shown. The warning says 0.0416666666666667 days (1 hour), but when you actually start the transition, it says it will take something between 7 and 10 hours. This is the case for both directions.
(Image)
(Image)

I will update later on how much time it actually ends up taking.

Edit: Also, could the length of updates on NS3 be reduced? They appear to be taking about 2 hours at the moment, and a higher frequency of updates would help with testing.

Since I saw that the region Merni was transitioning from Frontier to Stronghold, I decided to test what raiding would do during the transition. The transition to Stronghold that the region Merni initiated would have been completed at 5PM my time according to the notice at the top. However, seizing the position of delegate from Merni either caused the region to switch to Stronghold immediately or the notice at the top was wrong.

EDIT: the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that it might be because of the 1 hour transition period given on the test site. This means that every time a new update occurs the transition will already happen - making testing what would happen if the transition is interrupted a bit of a pain.

[Merni]

The transition times for frontier->stronghold and vice versa are inconsistently shown. The warning says 0.0416666666666667 days (1 hour), but when you actually start the transition, it says it will take something between 7 and 10 hours. This is the case for both directions.
(Image)
(Image)

I will update later on how much time it actually ends up taking.

Edit: Also, could the length of updates on NS3 be reduced? They appear to be taking about 2 hours at the moment, and a higher frequency of updates would help with testing.

Since I saw that the region Merni was transitioning from Frontier to Stronghold, I decided to test what raiding would do during the transition. The transition to Stronghold that the region Merni initiated would have been completed at 5PM my time according to the notice at the top. However, seizing the position of delegate from Merni either caused the region to switch to Stronghold immediately or the notice at the top was wrong.

As you may have seen, the region did become a Stronghold

[Merni]

EDIT: the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that it might be because of the 1 hour transition period given on the test site. This means that every time a new update occurs the transition will already happen - making testing what would happen if the transition is interrupted a bit of a pain.

The transition period is at least two hours. "Mernis 2nd region" took 2 hours to switch from Stronghold -> Frontier, and "Merni" had been in transition for over 2 hours by the time you took the delegacy. So at this point, neither of the two times shown on NS3 is the correct one.

I suspect that the time in the red banner is tied to the start of real NS updates.

[A Bloodred Moon]

EDIT: the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that it might be because of the 1 hour transition period given on the test site. This means that every time a new update occurs the transition will already happen - making testing what would happen if the transition is interrupted a bit of a pain.

The transition period is at least two hours. "Mernis 2nd region" took 2 hours to switch from Stronghold -> Frontier, and "Merni" had been in transition for over 2 hours by the time you took the delegacy. So at this point, neither of the two times shown on NS3 is the correct one.

My personal suspicion is that it works like how embassy closures do: there's a given time (in our Stronghold -> Frontier example, 1 hour) but the actual transition doesn't occur until the update immediately after the necessary time has completed. You initiated the change about 15 minutes before the next update, meaning you had to wait for the 2-hour update cycle to arrive again for the actual transition.

I suspect that the time in the red banner is tied to the start of real NS updates.

Yes, that makes sense. It does make testing somewhat more difficult still.

[Leutria]

Does anyone with a frontier want to help be test the password settings? I transitioned a stronghold to a frontier with a password in place, and noticed a little odd behaviour.

The password section of boarder control has become just a single button "Update Password Settings", which removed the regional password. Even after doing that, it remains just the button.

It was my understanding that frontiers are supposed to be able to set passwords, and that having one would just result in them no longer spawning nations. So my questions is if setting passwords is broken in general for frontiers, or if I specifically broke it by transitioning with a password.