Suggestion: delay feeder welcome TGs

[Saarz]

Currently the welcome TG will often arrive faster than you can block it so I support this.

I've made quite a few card puppets over my time here, and I've noticed that the time that the feeder TG comes it varies a lot. It's never been more than 30 seconds since I found the nation, though. But I have occasionally just disabled region telegrams because might as well, and it does work, if you get to the telegram settings fast enough.

Once, after a particularly fast set of clicking buttons, I think I actually moved the nation to my puppet storage so fast that I never got any feeder welcome TG on that nation. No idea how that one happened.

Besides that, full support of this.

[Eluvatar]

I can do this tomorrow, probably. I'll just need to add some tricky extra conditions to a query.

I did come up with some code, but ran out of time to test it. Tentatively looking to test and deploy today tomorrow.

[Tim-Opolis]

I can do this tomorrow, probably. I'll just need to add some tricky extra conditions to a query.

I did come up with some code, but ran out of time to test it. Tentatively looking to test and deploy today tomorrow.

Thanks for the updates Elu, looking forward to seeing it in action!

[Eluvatar]

This is now live.

Known quirks:

• You still get the TG unless you move really really fast, it will just show up 5 minutes after your nation was founded.
• The timestamp shown in your inbox will still match when it was sent, not delivered, so the feeder welcome TG will still be listed as having been sent very shortly after the NationStates welcome TG.

[Flanderlion]

This is now live.

Known quirks:

• You still get the TG unless you move really really fast, it will just show up 5 minutes after your nation was founded.
• The timestamp shown in your inbox will still match when it was sent, not delivered, so the feeder welcome TG will still be listed as having been sent very shortly after the NationStates welcome TG.

Those sound like features, not bugs. My primary issue with this was not seeing where my nations were founded, but if they are sent either way that's good. How fast is really fast? Good to see changes, albeit even ones like this I disagreed with/seems slightly pointless.

[Sterfar]

This is now live.

Known quirks:

• You still get the TG unless you move really really fast, it will just show up 5 minutes after your nation was founded.
• The timestamp shown in your inbox will still match when it was sent, not delivered, so the feeder welcome TG will still be listed as having been sent very shortly after the NationStates welcome TG.

I got the TNP welcome telegram as soon as I founded this puppet.

[Comfed]

This is now live.

Known quirks:

• You still get the TG unless you move really really fast, it will just show up 5 minutes after your nation was founded.
• The timestamp shown in your inbox will still match when it was sent, not delivered, so the feeder welcome TG will still be listed as having been sent very shortly after the NationStates welcome TG.

I got the TNP welcome telegram as soon as I founded this puppet.

Ditto, on Democratic Examplestan.

[Eluvatar]

So the timestamp quirk was actually the sign of a bug, which [violet] caught. It should be fixed now.

[Lord Dominator]

This is now live.

Known quirks:

• You still get the TG unless you move really really fast, it will just show up 5 minutes after your nation was founded.
• The timestamp shown in your inbox will still match when it was sent, not delivered, so the feeder welcome TG will still be listed as having been sent very shortly after the NationStates welcome TG.

Those sound like features, not bugs. My primary issue with this was not seeing where my nations were founded, but if they are sent either way that's good. How fast is really fast? Good to see changes, albeit even ones like this I disagreed with/seems slightly pointless.

Given that you need to get to tg settings within seconds to be able to block the thing (in my experience), I imagine the “fast” means “has the other region open in another tab and moving right away”

[New Rogernomics]

That would require Moderation action, monitoring, and possibly punishment. I'm totally against that restriction. I don't think it's possible to effectively enforce it, and I don't think it's fair to enforce it on just one set of regions. Turning off recruitment is always a good idea, and new players need to know about it. It also helps recruiters by not having them waste stamps.

The other is a technical action. Anything that can be automated is better than anything that has to be managed manually.

I propose a blanket ban on instructing nations to turn off all their recruitment settings.[...]

That isn't really advisable, as when we didn't mention that in our welcome TG, we got some angry folks complaining.

Ever since we put in a statement that it was automated and they could stop the TGs, that sort of anger died away.

If anything the wording is the problem, as this is fine:

PS: Automated welcome telegrams like this one appear when entering another region. You can stop these telegrams in nation settings.[...]

This probably not:

PS: Our region is #1...Block all TGs now![...]

[Sedgistan]

Bumping this up in the hope that someone might have some data on feeder nation retention rates from before / after this change, which can inform us on whether it's had any effect, and if the time delay should be tweaked either way.

[Les Claypool]

I would love to see some sort of "joining" page where new players have some regions suggested to them and have an easy way of exploring other ones that may be interesting to them. I'd also like to see a % of nations founded in UCRs, and intend to start a separate thread on that topic at some point; it's an old idea. However, both are much bigger projects. My suggestion in this thread is a smaller scale change that brings benefits and should be relatively quick to implement if it goes ahead, and doesn't block the potential for other changes in the future.

I thought about this, I think it's a good idea. Someone mentioned something about region tags somewhere. So, they can have a suggestion page appear. Let them choose certain specific tags such as (Region size, GCR or not) then maybe like 5 misc tags to choose from that can narrow down suggestions for regions to either spawn/or move to if they are already spawned (depending whether spawn mechanics are changed or not). Passworded and School regions obviously being excluded.

If a person doesn't choose a small or medium region, then they won't be suggested deadwood regions that are inactive. I don't see a thread for this, so if you want to make a separate thread you should.

[The Hazar Amisnery]

Feeder regions shouldn't even exist. UCR's don't get a chance to get any bigger cause people spawn in one of the Pacifics and stay there. Feeder regions are just player spawn points so they don't need welcome telegrams. A tutorial type telegram might work better.

[Les Claypool]

Feeder regions shouldn't even exist. UCR's don't get a chance to get any bigger cause people spawn in one of the Pacifics and stay there. Feeder regions are just player spawn points so they don't need welcome telegrams. A tutorial type telegram might work better.

Sorry, Feeders are communities too. While you can argue for some sort of balance if you think there needs to be one, decent UCRs for whatever niche of the game you like are a dime a dozen. Everyone has or has had a hard time establishing a good and large UCR and most fail! Not because some big feeder. This was just as true when all the GCRs were inactive and sleeping and recruitment wasn't as easy as today. Even making it to medium sized and being a decent region is hard. That hard work is rewarded with a successful region. The biggest competition UCRs face is each other! Why should I join your minimal effort UCR? Or, why should I join your UCR which is nearly identical to another that is larger and more active?

If I am joining a UCR it is for entirely different reasons than for a Feeder. Also because of the unique flavours UCRs can provide, they have to be enticing.

[Bears Armed]

I would love to see some sort of "joining" page where new players have some regions suggested to them and have an easy way of exploring other ones that may be interesting to them. I'd also like to see a % of nations founded in UCRs, and intend to start a separate thread on that topic at some point; it's an old idea. However, both are much bigger projects. My suggestion in this thread is a smaller scale change that brings benefits and should be relatively quick to implement if it goes ahead, and doesn't block the potential for other changes in the future.

I thought about this, I think it's a good idea. Someone mentioned something about region tags somewhere. So, they can have a suggestion page appear. Let them choose certain specific tags such as (Region size, GCR or not) then maybe like 5 misc tags to choose from that can narrow down suggestions for regions to either spawn/or move to if they are already spawned (depending whether spawn mechanics are changed or not). Passworded and School regions obviously being excluded.

If a person doesn't choose a small or medium region, then they won't be suggested deadwood regions that are inactive. I don't see a thread for this, so if you want to make a separate thread you should.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=507325

[Les Claypool]

I thought about this, I think it's a good idea. Someone mentioned something about region tags somewhere. So, they can have a suggestion page appear. Let them choose certain specific tags such as (Region size, GCR or not) then maybe like 5 misc tags to choose from that can narrow down suggestions for regions to either spawn/or move to if they are already spawned (depending whether spawn mechanics are changed or not). Passworded and School regions obviously being excluded.

If a person doesn't choose a small or medium region, then they won't be suggested deadwood regions that are inactive. I don't see a thread for this, so if you want to make a separate thread you should.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=507325

Thanks!

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Feeder regions shouldn't even exist. UCR's don't get a chance to get any bigger cause people spawn in one of the Pacifics and stay there. Feeder regions are just player spawn points so they don't need welcome telegrams. A tutorial type telegram might work better.

Feeder regions are more than just player spawn points - they have some of the most dynamic and accomplished communities in the game.

[Comfed]

Feeder regions shouldn't even exist. UCR's don't get a chance to get any bigger cause people spawn in one of the Pacifics and stay there. Feeder regions are just player spawn points so they don't need welcome telegrams. A tutorial type telegram might work better.

Even if you pretend that feeder communities don’t exist, they add an interesting game dynamic that would be a shame to lose.

[Kylia Quilor]

Feeder regions shouldn't even exist. UCR's don't get a chance to get any bigger cause people spawn in one of the Pacifics and stay there. Feeder regions are just player spawn points so they don't need welcome telegrams. A tutorial type telegram might work better.

Feeder regions are more than just player spawn points - they have some of the most dynamic and accomplished communities in the game.

Well, they do have an unfair advantage.

But at this point, it's far too late to try to turn feeders into just spawn points, unless we're prepared to destroy the long-established communities that have been allowed to thrive there.

I'll admit a tiny part of me (the greedy, selfish, absolutely amoral little jack*** of a devil on my shoulder) says reducing Feeders and Sinkers to spawn points people can't stay in would be nice, but the cost to a lot of players (and to the way Gameplay has historically benefited from the GCRs, even if their size now is a problem) would not be worth it.

[Les Claypool]

Feeder regions are more than just player spawn points - they have some of the most dynamic and accomplished communities in the game.

Well, they do have an unfair advantage.

But at this point, it's far too late to try to turn feeders into just spawn points, unless we're prepared to destroy the long-established communities that have been allowed to thrive there.

I'll admit a tiny part of me (the greedy, selfish, absolutely amoral little jack*** of a devil on my shoulder) says reducing Feeders and Sinkers to spawn points people can't stay in would be nice, but the cost to a lot of players (and to the way Gameplay has historically benefited from the GCRs, even if their size now is a problem) would not be worth it.

Yeah but balancing between GCR and UCR is a different argument from nonexistence. Delays are an idea of balance, removing Feeders entirely or their ability to welcome or recruit as Hazar seems to suggest is not balancing anything.