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Idea/Question: Issues based on History

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Klorgia1
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Founded: Aug 23, 2016
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Idea/Question: Issues based on History

Postby Klorgia1 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:32 pm

As far as I can tell, there have been no issues directly affected by what you choose your nations history to be in the nation creation process. Is this because its not tracked, or never been tried. I am assuming right now its technical, which is why I'm putting this here. I think there are a lot of unique issue ideas to be had with adding such in.

Off the top of my head, here are some of the *ideas I've had (3 of which I've begun writing and are now in the literal pile of different NS issue ideas I got floating around, though I wanted get this out of the way first). Do note that I reference the history groups name as a stand-in for their nation:

1. Ethnic Cleansing Refugees on a holiday for Genocide Remembrance (perhaps making a few references to issue 194).

2. Ethnic Cleansing Refugees and diplomatic policy with their attempted killer nation; this could either go down the road of the government surviving or a later issue where the tyrannical killers were deposed Nazi-style.

3. Civil Bloodbath Survivors on the question of if they should try and reconquer their nations former land.

4. Civil Bloodbath Survivors facing other Civil Bloodbath survivor-nations trying to "reconquer" them, as if they were ever owned by these madmen!

4. Diplomatic Homeland Wranglers feeling like a puppet state to their savior nations which gave them territory (as a smaller change, I'd also recommend changing this description to world powers instead of world superpower, as it opens up more opportunities).

5. Violent Segregation­ists and a minority group/territory which wants to rejoin their old nation.

6. Recently Discovered Undiscovered Tribe fighting new diseases.

7. Long-Suffering But Still Optimistic Pilgrims being mocked/tariffed for their religious beliefs by other nations.

8. Plucky, Malnourished Pioneers being *sued by their homeland for failing to do their job (or perhaps doing it too well).

9. Violent Segregation­ists under threat by their original nation.

As I think I show pretty well, there is a massive goldmine hiding here, so if we can tap it out tech-wise, I think it would be the largest change to NS issues in a long time. So, what do you say NS?


*The uselessness of such making this a great breakup issue.

*All of these are of course free to use, though with the very important caveat that you reference my creation of the idea, because I'm crazy like that.
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Frisbeeteria
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Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:00 pm

Klorgia1 wrote:I think there are a lot of unique issue ideas to be had with adding such in.

Then you should raise these points in Got Issues, not Technical.

The main problem I see is that the game doesn't remember (or track in any way) your choice at nation creation. All that selection does is set down a baseline on which future issues build. 2 or 3 days of issue answering later, it's probably unrecognizable. 6 months or 6 years later, there is nothing about Civil Bloodbath Survivors or Plucky, Malnourished Pioneer to base choices on. Your nation's citizens have moved on.

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Klorgia1
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Postby Klorgia1 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:43 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Klorgia1 wrote:I think there are a lot of unique issue ideas to be had with adding such in.

Then you should raise these points in Got Issues, not Technical.

The main problem I see is that the game doesn't remember (or track in any way) your choice at nation creation. All that selection does is set down a baseline on which future issues build. 2 or 3 days of issue answering later, it's probably unrecognizable. 6 months or 6 years later, there is nothing about Civil Bloodbath Survivors or Plucky, Malnourished Pioneer to base choices on. Your nation's citizens have moved on.


1. Ok, but I'm talking about adding something into the game, wouldn't it be in technical? I thought this was where "ideas for improvement" go?

2.Thats what I'm saying. Its hard to do this if it you can't set "only available for nations which were Civil Bloodbath survivors" in the same way it does, say, Democracy, which is why I'm putting it here.

3. This is a historical piece which can set the stage for issues, and while the game doesn't have it built in right now, nations are shaped by their history greatly. Thats one of the reasons why it would be a great addition, it would allow more options to play with your founding state as oppose to just glossing over it within a few issues.
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Frisbeeteria
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Postby Frisbeeteria » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:14 pm

Klorgia1 wrote:I'm talking about adding something into the game, wouldn't it be in technical?

You're talking about issues. We have a dedicated forum and team who are now entirely responsible for issues and policies. Mods and Admins have very limited roles in that process now.

Klorgia1 wrote:Its hard to do this if it you can't set "only available for nations which were Civil Bloodbath survivors" in the same way it does, say, Democracy, which is why I'm putting it here.

My point is that it would be a fundamental change in the nation creation process, for information that becomes outdated very quickly. Are the Boston commuters in Plymouth, Mass, still persecuted for their religious beliefs, or do they have ordinary lives working in healthcare and retail? Are their neighbors in Salem still being hung as witches, or do they live ordinary lives at Salem State University or Home Depot?

Sure, it's part of their history, but it's not remotely relevant to their daily lives at this point. I'm not seeing the relevance or the added value.

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Gandoor
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Postby Gandoor » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:04 pm

Also, to add on to what Fris said, the whole history wasn't added until June 2009, per the HISTORY page (https://www.nationstates.net/HISTORY), so even if what you selected was remembered by the game, everyone who created their account before that date would be SOL because the feature didn't exist when they created their nations.
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USS Monitor
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Postby USS Monitor » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:14 am

Gandoor wrote:Also, to add on to what Fris said, the whole history wasn't added until June 2009, per the HISTORY page (https://www.nationstates.net/HISTORY), so even if what you selected was remembered by the game, everyone who created their account before that date would be SOL because the feature didn't exist when they created their nations.


That wouldn't stop us from writing issues based on it, in the same way that having nations without a national religion doesn't stop us from writing issues that require a national religion. Older nations would just not get the history-based issues.

Alternatively, there could be policies that are triggered during nation creation, depending on which "history" you choose -- but those policies would also be available for us to use in issues effects if they seem relevant. For example, choosing "ethnic cleansing refugees" during nation creation and choosing a genocidal issue option might both activate the same policy.

These policies would be unusual in that they can't be turned back off again.

All of that being said, Klorgia, some of the issues you proposed could be done as consequences of other issues, even if admin does not make any technical changes. In fact, we already have an issue or two about fighting diseases. Admins will code what they want to code, but in the meantime, you might want to take the specific issues ideas over to GI and see what you can do under the current game mechanics.
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Klorgia1
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Founded: Aug 23, 2016
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Postby Klorgia1 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:30 pm

USS Monitor wrote:
Gandoor wrote:All of that being said, Klorgia, some of the issues you proposed could be done as consequences of other issues, even if admin does not make any technical changes. In fact, we already have an issue or two about fighting diseases. Admins will code what they want to code, but in the meantime, you might want to take the specific issues ideas over to GI and see what you can do under the current game mechanics.


Alright, I'll take a look to what I can. For the disease ones, I thought that it would be an extra air of flavor to make it based on your history, but that makes sense (and it looks like their are other issues I abuse use to take the place of a nation in this scenario).
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Klorgia1
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Postby Klorgia1 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:49 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Klorgia1 wrote:Its hard to do this if it you can't set "only available for nations which were Civil Bloodbath survivors" in the same way it does, say, Democracy, which is why I'm putting it here.

My point is that it would be a fundamental change in the nation creation process, for information that becomes outdated very quickly. Are the Boston commuters in Plymouth, Mass, still persecuted for their religious beliefs, or do they have ordinary lives working in healthcare and *retail? Are their neighbors in Salem still being hung as witches, or do they live ordinary lives at Salem State University or Home Depot?

Sure, it's part of their history, but it's not remotely relevant to their daily lives at this point. I'm not seeing the relevance or the added value.


Some of these are pretty lingering, and can play a major role in national ethos. It may not effect the daily lives of your citizens directly if neighborland recognizes they commit genocide on your people, but it opens the door to things like reparations, and has a diplomatic influence which can affect trade and immigration. And some of these could just be a new challenge in the vein of the terrorist attack issues, not daily effects. A lot of nationstates issues either set up a crisis (pirates, terrorist attacks, diplomatic crisis) and leave you to try and solve it. These aren't necessarily hovering over your citizens head every day of the week, but they have a major effect when they come up. What if one of the other states in your ex-nation is threatening to reunify your old nation? Thats something which will affect your citizens, and even your government not doing anything would send a message.

I think this could also be remedied by having these issues show up earlier in a nations history. You could have one of your first issues by the Plymouth Commuters confronting religious persecution, or an issue based on if the religiosity or ethnic composition of a nation based on escaping persecution no longer matches what they had so strongly, and changing their government to reflect that (away from a theocracy, for example). As another example for what you could do, if your nation broke up because of a civil war, one of your earlier issues could be if you should try and get back together, and then either an issue tree could slowly be built or the issue of diplomatic relations with them could come up every so often.

*(Gets idea for being able to add more background info for a nation)

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USS Monitor
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Postby USS Monitor » Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:02 pm

There might be ways to use your national origin story if admin wants to code it, but some of the ideas you're proposing are still well-suited to consequence issues under the current mechanics. There are existing issues options that allow parts of @@NAME@@ to secede, and then you can have follow-up issues about the seceded fragments.
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