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[Rejected] Beta 020: Hunger

Bug reports, general help, ideas for improvements, and questions about how things are meant to work.

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Candlewhisper Archive
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 23034
Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Anarchy

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:31 am

Well, that's what betas are for. Probably safe to say this one is not working right now.
editors like linguistic ambiguity more than most people

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Aelyria
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: Apr 20, 2008
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Aelyria » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:40 am

Yeah, count me as really confused and not especially happy with this as well. Despite having an excellent economy, super high employment, and both large Fishing (6th percentile) and Agriculture (4th percentile) industries (even my cheese exports are high), I would definitely end up being in the top 5% of the world for hunger. Plus a very high average lifespan. The only food-related things I'm *low* for are soda, pizza, and obesity, so it's really hard to see why my nation should have crippling, beyond-most-of-the-world food shortages. Having examined the stats, it frankly looks right now like it's just "are you a big nation? If yes, high score."

I do think it makes for an interesting question though. Pe Perhaps it needs to have greater scaling, or factoring in poor incomes and more food industries (cheese, fish, pizza)?

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9822
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:08 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:This one is potentially contentious, as it more or less compares your food production output to your population.
Not really fair. All industry stats are already implicitly per capita, since they don't scale with population, so dividing them by population again doesn't make sense.

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Merconitonitopia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1696
Founded: Jul 29, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Merconitonitopia » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:22 pm

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:This one is potentially contentious, as it more or less compares your food production output to your population. The design intention was to have a stat that increases by itself over time, but I admit, there's flaws to that.

The points you guys make are good ones, I may need to revisit the numbers

Candlewhisper, I would like for you to clarify what you mean. Do you mean to say that hunger is not measured in proportion to population, meaning that higher population nations will have more hunger simply because there are more people to be hungry in the first place? (In the same way that a higher population means a higher Economic Output, ceteris paribus.) In that case, this would be misleading, as most would interpret the census otherwise. Or do you mean to say that it is proportional to population, but that more populous countries suffer more pound-for-pound because they will have a harder time feeding all those people? If so, this appears to overlook that agricultural output is measured in per capita terms. Or perhaps you meant something else?

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Land Without Shrimp
Envoy
 
Posts: 240
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Land Without Shrimp » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:57 pm

My score seems...very low?? 1.04 here. Not sure if I should be happy with that or not, haven't really looked at other nations yet.

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Krusavich
Attaché
 
Posts: 89
Founded: Mar 19, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Krusavich » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:05 pm

I think VoVoDoCo hit the nail on the head. Most 'developed' nations with very low/no income tax are fully fed, while similar nations with very high tax rates (>95%) are not. It seems that high tax nations need fairly extensive welfare programs to make up this difference.

It makes sense somewhat, but it is a little jarring. Many of these high tax, high hunger nations have great stats for health, life expectancy, average poor income, etc. It just seems like an odd combination with something so basic as high hunger.

For myself, I thought health covered stuff like making sure people were fed but that evidently isn't the case. I mean, I wouldn't say a nation could be classified as very healthy while having a hunger issue...

I really don't know how this can be resolved cleanly. I guess we'll just have to start writing issues to raise welfare massively to confront this new hunger crisis :roll:
Last edited by Krusavich on Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Outer Sparta
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13977
Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:15 pm

Krusavich wrote:I think VoVoDoCo hit the nail on the head. Most 'developed' nations with very low/no income tax are fully fed, while similar nations with very high tax rates (>95%) are not. It seems that high tax nations need fairly extensive welfare programs to make up this difference.

It makes sense somewhat, but it is a little jarring. Many of these high tax, high hunger nations have great stats for health, life expectancy, average poor income, etc. It just seems like an odd combination with something so basic as high hunger.

For myself, I thought health covered stuff like making sure people were fed but that evidently isn't the case. I mean, I wouldn't say a nation could be classified as very healthy while having a hunger issue...

I really don't know how this can be resolved cleanly. I guess we'll just have to start writing issues to raise welfare massively to confront this new hunger crisis :roll:

Many nations that have high welfare still are in the top 1% of hunger, so they don't even take welfare into consideration.
I don't stand with Ukraine. I don't stand with Russia. I don't stand with the US, NATO, or EU. I stand with the innocent civilians being caught in the crossfire while the politicians, the media, and weapons manufacturers continue to stoke division and conflict in their geopolitical chess games and treat the people of Ukraine as mere pawns. Zelensky is a corrupt, opportunist oligarchic politician who is not fit to lead Ukraine through anything and wants to inflate his own ego and offshore accounts.

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Candlewhisper Archive
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 23034
Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Anarchy

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:21 pm

Yeah, this one doesn't work, I hadn't crunched it properly. Limited understanding of the game mechanics when I assembled it, a few years back.

Like I said though, that's what betas are for. Expect this one to be shelved for now.
editors like linguistic ambiguity more than most people

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Socialist Ancomistan
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 107
Founded: Oct 30, 2021
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Socialist Ancomistan » Sun Apr 03, 2022 10:19 am

Glad this one is shelved
I'd say this nation is about 85-90% representative to my beliefs

About the only difference between my nation and beliefs is that free markets are effective in a select few situations, and the compulsory organ harvesting is kind of screwed up

I'm probably in the minority, but I actually pay more attention to in game stats than to roleplay

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