Beta 019: Patriotism

[Candlewhisper Archive]

There are no visible primary stats.

Not even residency?

I see what you mean. Some visible stats are based on very transparent things, for sure, but the "primary stats" we use backstage are never directly visible to players.

[Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio]

Not even residency?

I see what you mean. Some visible stats are based on very transparent things, for sure, but the "primary stats" we use backstage are never directly visible to players.

Could you tell the approximate ratio of backstage stats to visible stats, please?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

I see what you mean. Some visible stats are based on very transparent things, for sure, but the "primary stats" we use backstage are never directly visible to players.

Could you tell the approximate ratio of backstage stats to visible stats, please?

Not sure I'm allowed, sorry.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

That's really good news.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

I have been thinking of an example of strong patriotism that the index could be named after, and I remember that in Turkey, there is very strong level of patriotism about their first president, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk.

Yes, you're right, we're the Kemalist nationalists=Patriotism

[New Camelot of Avalonia]

I wonder if patriotism is more loving your country for what it is not for how it is better than other countries. I think that America has a quite different type of patriotism where the idea that America Is Best is something many other countries wouldn’t say but that doesn’t necessarily make those other countries unpatriotic. I think patriotism can look very different depending on national personality, culture, development, etc... For instance, I think for my own country, the idea of placing your own country above all others is not really in the cultural understanding of patriotism, and patriotism is much more of an inward focused pride and love for the country, it’s ways, and history. Will this new patriotism stat take this type of thing into account? For instance, a country with a large military tradition probably has a different type of patriotism than one that has no military but has a deep pacifist and human rights oriented national spirit and tradition. Will one definition of patriotism take priority over another?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

I wonder if patriotism is more loving your country for what it is not for how it is better than other countries. I think that America has a quite different type of patriotism where the idea that America Is Best is something many other countries wouldn’t say but that doesn’t necessarily make those other countries unpatriotic. I think patriotism can look very different depending on national personality, culture, development, etc... For instance, I think for my own country, the idea of placing your own country above all others is not really in the cultural understanding of patriotism, and patriotism is much more of an inward focused pride and love for the country, it’s ways, and history. Will this new patriotism stat take this type of thing into account? For instance, a country with a large military tradition probably has a different type of patriotism than one that has no military but has a deep pacifist and human rights oriented national spirit and tradition. Will one definition of patriotism take priority over another?

That sort of fine detail differentiation is what the new stat will be for, and will be an editorial judgement call on an issue-by-issue basis, as with most stats in the game.

[Lillorainen]

I wonder if patriotism is more loving your country for what it is not for how it is better than other countries. I think that America has a quite different type of patriotism where the idea that America Is Best is something many other countries wouldn’t say but that doesn’t necessarily make those other countries unpatriotic. I think patriotism can look very different depending on national personality, culture, development, etc... For instance, I think for my own country, the idea of placing your own country above all others is not really in the cultural understanding of patriotism, and patriotism is much more of an inward focused pride and love for the country, it’s ways, and history. Will this new patriotism stat take this type of thing into account? For instance, a country with a large military tradition probably has a different type of patriotism than one that has no military but has a deep pacifist and human rights oriented national spirit and tradition. Will one definition of patriotism take priority over another?

Oii,
I see where you're coming from - for a real-life comparison, the U.S. would probably get a very high patriotism rating; given the number of flags waving, practices like the pledge of allegiance, and the national anthem played at pretty much every sporting event, America might even be in the leading ranks of the world. An extreme counterexample would be Germany, where most aspects of the American way of celebrating the nation would almost look cultish (to most European countries, actually ...), and where being "proud to be German" is generally much frowned upon in society for various reasons, WWII being the most essential one. The German anthem being played and the German flag waving is something one isn't very likely to hear/see outside international football ("soccer") competitions. Germany would receive a fairly low ranking.
As I said, I get what you mean - my IC nations (all of them) would be ranked somewhere in the middle, as the populaces of all my nations pride themselves in particular aspects of their own country (e.g. Lillorainians pride themselves in keeping their national and regional traditions up, but also in their economic efficiency and their infrastructure; Shamsiyya and Shikonjima tend to more celebrate their millennia-old cultures and their history of being almost globally powerful nations at various stages therein, rather than contemporary achievements), but in all of them, people don't necessarily believe in something like supremacy of their own nation. My nations also tend to be very welcoming to foreigners and cooperate with each other and other countries on various levels.
You are basically asking, if patriotism can be raised by making one's nation extraordinarily good at some certain things (like a huge military, or also the lack thereof), so that people might be patriotic due to these particular aspects of their country. Now, I don't know, if this is taken into account, and I would like to think, that the game does take this aspect into account in some way or the other, but given NS' long tradition of not making certain stats particularly nuanced in such a sophisticated manner (even if the Beta does change this quite a bit), partially on purpose to meet the satirical nature the game has been created with, I tend to assume, that the patriotism stat will rather value flags waving/salute readiness - so having a large military, discouraging foreign or regional flags, and things like the pledge of allegiance policy might be the most efficient ways to boost the patriotism stat.
And in the moment I finish tying this, I'm getting ninja'd ...

That sort of fine detail differentiation is what the new stat will be for, and will be an editorial judgement call on an issue-by-issue basis, as with most stats in the game.

Well, then it's good to hear, that these things are gonna be taken into account, contrary to my previous assumption - good to know! Thank you! ^^

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

When the full version will be released ?

[La Xinga]

When will this start?

[Krusavich]

Well, we know the actual Patriotism stat itself is still in development and we haven't gotten an update on that yet. I'm assuming it's still a WIP. What we see now is functionally a placeholder.

I think we still have quite a while before we see any beta implementations. The last ones took quite a long time. While I doubt this new batch will have such a long wait - I would not be surprised if it's an excess of a year.

[Awesomeland012345]

This seems like a good stat. But maybe saluting a flag 500 times a day is too much?

[SherpDaWerp]

This seems like a good stat. But maybe saluting a flag 500 times a day is too much?

So is eating 120+ bananas a day... NS stats have never been particularly hampered by realistic measurements.
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=cor ... ensusid=39

[Unibot III]

OMIGOD! Finally! This looks great. I’m very interested in seeing how this might work.

I suggested this stat to Sirocco back in like 2008, whoo!

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

when is it coming ?

[The United States of Paul]

Are these new statistics ever going to be released?

[SherpDaWerp]

Are these new statistics ever going to be released?

when is it coming ?

It's been less than half a year. The last round of Betas (mentioned in this news post) were in development for several years before their release - and if not years then certainly a lot more than 6 months. Looking at the full betas thread, the last round of betas was 173 days ago and the round before that was 823 days ago. Past performance isn't necessarily an indicator of future performance, but I think we'll be waiting quite a while longer before these betas come out.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

When is coming has been a year.

[Land Without Shrimp]

When is coming has been a year.

It's an unknowable mystery.

I suggest...patience. I'm eagerly awaiting all of the stats in Beta, but know the team has their hands full as it is!

[Gasakstan]

When is coming has been a year.

It's an unknowable mystery.

I suggest...patience. I'm eagerly awaiting all of the stats in Beta, but know the team has their hands full as it is!

ta da!

[Ghost Land]

I'm in the top 3% of the world for this stat, so needless to say, I like it.

GHOST LAND! FUCK YEAH!

[Jar Wattinree]

I'm in the top 3% of the world for this stat, so needless to say, I like it.

GHOST LAND! FUCK YEAH!

*laughs in top 0.07% of the World*

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

I'm in the top 3% of the world for this stat, so needless to say, I like it.

GHOST LAND! FUCK YEAH!

%4 and 44.61 I wonder how it is determined, the rate of nationalism of corrupt governments is very high, but I think it should have been a result that shows the policy of loving the people the most, that is, civil nationalism. The real nationalists are the democratic socialists, the Liberal Democratic Socialists, and the nations that are Harmless Centrist Democracy.

[Tinhampton]

Lagging in the bottom 10%, as ever.

I note that the title of this metric is "Flags saluted per person per day" in lower-case. The first letter of each word should probably be in upper-case, in line with the metric titles for Compliance ("Law-abiding Acts Per Hour"), Corruption ("Kickbacks Per Hour"), Crime ("Crimes Per Hour"), Environmental Beauty ("Pounds Of Wildlife Per Square Mile"), Health ("Bananas Ingested Per Day"), Ignorance ("Missed References Per Hour"), Intelligence ("Quips Per Hour"), Niceness ("Average Smiles Per Day"), Nudity ("Cheeks Per Square Mile"), Pacifism ("Cheeks Turned Per Day"), Religiousness ("Prayers Per Hour"), Rudeness ("Insults Per Minute"), Tourism ("Tourists Per Hour"), and Weaponisation ("Weapons Per Person") - each of which contain the phrase "Per [UNIT}."

[Nyxonia]

Nice addition there; I see the team pushed out Patriotism and Food Quality at the same time.