NationStates

Posted: **Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:45 pm**

Beta 017: Civil Rights: Drop tracking of crime-related freedom

Proposed Change: Delete inconsistent tracking of freedom relating to crime, which is currently measured in a redundant and haphazard way.

Posted: **Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:07 am**

So basically, this is to do with the fact that many issues treat the right to commit crime as a civil right.

This was actually never the game designer's intention, with the relevant stat meant to be looking at the rights of criminals (in custody or prison), not the right to commit crime, but somewhere along the way it became usual practice to regard the right to break the law as a civil right.

For a long time now we've stopped doing this, but there's still this effect in lots of old issues and the historical effect of that hidden stat being in place.

This beta basically deletes the right to commit crime as a civil right, putting everyones civil rights scores where they'd be if no such right were recognised.

Posted: **Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:56 am**

Thanks, I like this one. Fully support.

But issues that introduce laws that will criminalize certain actions/behaviours will still have a negative effect on civil rights, correct?

Posted: **Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:18 pm**

Depends on the issue and the context.

Posted: **Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:20 pm**

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Depends on the issue and the context.

I like this idea.

Posted: **Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:34 am**

Huzzah! Glad to hear this is rolling out.

Posted: **Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:57 pm**

What exactly do you mean by right to commit crime? sounds super contradictory to me.

Posted: **Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:50 pm**

Aclion wrote:What exactly do you mean by right to commit crime? sounds super contradictory to me.

Exactly.

Currently, the game has it that on many older issues if you make an act that any reasonable person would consider to be criminal and make it legal, civil rights increase.

For example, you could say that people ought to be able to set fire to the houses of people they don't like, and that'd give you more civil rights. So for example, option 87.2 which endorses "burning everything" increases civil rights, as does 171.2 with saying that you don't need to prosecute kids who commit crimes. Actually, recent issues haven't used this stat at all, as we've been expecting it to leave the game for quite some time now.

While the freedom to commit crime is a kind of freedom, it's always seemed odd to call it a civil right. This change will remove the stat that tracked this dubious right, resulting in most peoples civil rights scores shifting a little.

Posted: **Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:31 pm**

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
Aclion wrote:What exactly do you mean by right to commit crime? sounds super contradictory to me.

Exactly.

Currently, the game has it that on many older issues if you make an act that any reasonable person would consider to be criminal and make it legal, civil rights increase.

For example, you could say that people ought to be able to set fire to the houses of people they don't like, and that'd give you more civil rights. So for example, option 87.2 which endorses "burning everything" increases civil rights, as does 171.2 with saying that you don't need to prosecute kids who commit crimes. Actually, recent issues haven't used this stat at all, as we've been expecting it to leave the game for quite some time now.

While the freedom to commit crime is a kind of freedom, it's always seemed odd to call it a civil right. This change will remove the stat that tracked this dubious right, resulting in most peoples civil rights scores shifting a little.

Ok. This won't affect the way legalization of things affects crime though, right?
...or rather, doesn't affect crime.

Posted: **Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:35 am**

No, Crime will remain unchanged.

Posted: **Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:35 am**

No, Crime will remain unchanged, I believe, though there's a lot of moving parts to this system, so I can never be sure.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:15 pm**

If this beta is about implementing something that was always supposed to be the game designer's intention, how long will it take before it goes live?

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:35 pm**

Polis Diamonil wrote:If this beta is about implementing something that was always supposed to be the game designer's intention, how long will it take before it goes live?

Probably about two years.

I jest, but only partially. It usually takes a while for Betas to work all the way through...so...who can tell? The last batch took a bit longer than most people were expecting...

But I hope I'm proved wrong

Posted: **Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:53 pm**

Circumstance dictates All.