New Beta discussion thread

[Aclion]

There doesn't seem to be a discussion thread for the new betas, so... i'm making one.

linkies;
Beta 012 Tourism changes
Beta 014, Generosity
Beta 017 Civil Rights changes
Beta 019, Patriotism
Beta 020, Hunger
Beta 021, Food Quality
Beta 022, Ease of Commute

I seem to be taking quite a hit in tourism, and i'm not sure why, since my environment, safety and culture are all quite high(no clue how my national personality is), I also found this nation, which has gotten quite a high score even though it's not very remarkable statwise, so i'm not sure the beta is accomplishing what's being described.

The civil rights changes don't seem to do much as far as I can tell but they seem to be for solving niche stuff so, eh. I don't se anything weird at least.

On to new stats. I don't have much to say about most of them. they're all interesting things to learn about our nations, having hunger is particularly nice since we don't currently have any way of judging how well our people are able to meet their needs. At least now we'll be able to tell if they're starving.

That said the actual numbers are kind of boring for most of them, most of the stats seem to range from 0 to 100(probably with a soft cap) but most nations seem to be in a pack, with only a few outliers. Food Quality and Patriotism seem to be the best in this regard, while in ease of commute nearly everyone is below 2. Also i'm not sure if a high value in that stat is supposed to be good or bad in terms of commute. the description of the measurement implies we're measuring how stressful commutes are, but the name suggests it's measuring how easy they are.

[The New California Republic]

As I said earlier in a similar thread, my tourism stat increases 12,260%, the reason for such a dramatic change is that the environment doesn't have such a dramatic impact on the stat in the beta (The environment in my nation is poor to the extreme). It will be the same with you but the reverse: the environment in your nation was inflating the stat unreasonably.

[Sapporo Hyperspace Riftgate Laboratory]

Is there a way to know what percentile you're in for these beta stats?

[Dabberwocky]

Is there a way to know what percentile you're in for these beta stats?

Click on the links and then click "test"

[Flanderlion]

Is there a way to know what percentile you're in for these beta stats?

Click on the links and then click "test"

That only tells you the percent you're in now. I don't believe so, you can do a series of Random tests to see where you fit in, but to get the more granular percentage you'll have to wait for implementation.

[Krusavich]

Patriotism seems to be most interesting, for myself at least. Candle mentioned in another thread that it's still very incomplete, and subject to pretty significant changes. Right now, the people are pretty proud flag wavers, so I'm curious how my autocratic warmongering will change that.

I'm guessing Ease of Commute is some combination of compassion, public transportation and the automobile industry. Many nations seem abnormally low in this regard, so I'm pretty curious as to what exactly is going on behind the scenes there.

The rest of the new stats seem pretty self explanatory and align pretty well with what you'd except from a nation given their other stats. Still happy to have them though, always nice to have some more info to chew on.

[Marxist Germany]

Is there a way to know what percentile you're in for these beta stats?

Do some sample tests and make an educated guess

[Aroni]

Thank god, my life expectancy is no longer crap to the extreme, just because I'm a dictatorship doesn't mean i hate my people.

[Lillorainen]

My Tourism industry will skyrocket in the Beta, which isn't only a nice thing, but can easily be explained - while Lillorainen's environment leaves a lot to desire, to say the least, culture and safety will come into play. It's likely, that it's my fairly high culture stat that is going to boost my tourism (for safety, compassion, and niceness surely will not be the reason for that ...). As a result, one of my other nations with a somewhat better environment (and way higher tourism numbers) won't be affected much by this change.

Generosity - my trial and error search (random nations) gets me to the conclusion, that Lillos won't be particularly generous - probably not only because they aren't very compassionate according to the stats, but also because Lillorainen's welfare and high income of poor don't make donations particularly necessary. No surprise at this point.

Civil Rights changes - a slight boost in all six (main) nations I run. Since it's more of a correction of previous inconsistencies in results rather than a notable change of the stat's makeup, it won't do a lot.

Patriotism will be an interesting thing - for Lillorainen, it will be fairly low. Which might raise the question, whether it has to do with my populace's regional patriotism (which I've previously reaffirmed by encouraging the use of provincial flags instead of the national one everytime I've received that issue), or rather with Lillorainen's general friendliness towards immigration and international relations. In both cases, it's interesting, that one of my other nations will have a much higher patriotism despite small differences in these particular issue answer choices.

Hunger - unsurprisingly, another low stat I will have. Extensive welfare and high poor income will certainly be the reason for that, and my high obesity rate might also suggest, that hunger isn't exactly my nation's biggest problem.

Food quality - my random nation test implies, that Lillorainen is likely to be a nation of gourmets. Whether or not this correlates with my Hunger stat, as well as the stats it's influenced by (according to my educated guess) remains to be seen.

Ease of commute - that one will be interesting, for according to my random nation test, Lillos will arrive stressed at any place they go. My nation has both extensive public transport and a large automobile industry, so it remains to be seen, whether my populace is more stressed by trying not to miss their connecting trains, or by getting stuck in traffic jams. Perhaps even both? This, then, might raise the question as to what exactly this stat will be influenced by. Maybe also cheerfulness? Rudeness? Or even religiousness (spiritual people tend to be more calm about certain aspects of everyday life)? Or something I might have forgotten about? Stay tuned.

[The Imperium Collectives]

I've been out of the loop regarding game updates for years, but I'd like to briefly voice some concerns and questions I have regarding the Tourism change.

Proposed Change: Recalibrate the measurement of nations' attractiveness to tourists, with reference to environmental beauty, culture, safety, and national personality.

Now, my Tourism stat currently shows a change of -1,496.03 (⇣32.3%). Understandably I'm a bit miffed that my 108 ranking will change to the thousands, though I do understand that the stat was inflated due to environmental beauty.

While I maintain a high environmental and cultural stats, and ignoring what "national personality" may entail, my safety is the most lacking, where I sit in the bottom 94%. Now, this is years and years back, so my memory may be a bit hazy, but I distinctly remember receiving quite a shock in that big 2016 update when my safety went from the top 10% to the bottom 10%. I will admit to certain authoritarian policies I have enacted, however, how exactly is safety defined and measured currently? I have an extremely law-abiding citizenry with strict law enforcement. War is listed at .7% for cause of death, while disappearance is... 94.9%.

I never did fully understand where that came from, and I always kind of took it as a humorous badge of honour.

Still, I'd like to know how exactly these things are considered. The 2016 update really changed quite a few of my stats, such as health or employment, but I never really dug deep into it back then.

[Lord Dominator]

Dissapearance is presumably representing people who just 'disapear' and is likely related to corruption, which you appear to be in the top 1% for. Do note also that one of your other causes of death is 'suicide in police custody.'

[Valentine Z]

Beta 012, Tourism changes

4,999.38	3,006.46	-1,992.92	⇣39.9%

Beta 014, Generosity

0	346.38	+346.38	⇡100%

Beta 017, Civil Rights changes

77.76	79.18	+1.42	⇡1.8%

Beta 019, Patriotism

0	30.42	+30.42	⇡100%

Beta 020, Hunger

0	12.03	+12.03	⇡100%

Beta 021, Food Quality

0	501.64	+501.64	⇡100%

Beta 022, Ease of Commute

0	238.27	+238.27	⇡100%

So... I am looking forward to everything BUT the Tourism Changes, and the Weaponization [004, which has its own thread]. My Pacifism and Tourism are going to tank too much.

[The Imperium Collectives]

Dissapearance is presumably representing people who just 'disapear' and is likely related to corruption, which you appear to be in the top 1% for. Do note also that one of your other causes of death is 'suicide in police custody.'

Which is interesting, because while I certainly give law enforcement more favor than necessary, I also do my best to maintain mental health. I suppose I've answered enough issues that allow police brutality. I'd argue that corruption shouldn't necessarily relate to "disappearance", as I'm thinking more about bribery or political corruption. Nonetheless, I will not deny my nation's authoritarian stance, and while I'm unsatisfied that this results in very low safety, I'd be asking too much for the sake of my stats.

That said, I'll still vent and say it's unfortunate that these factors for safety will play into the new tourism ranking. As far as I'm concerned, law-abiding citizens and foreign nationals that travel throughout my nation would have no cause to fear for their safety.

[Outer Sparta]

The tourism changes do make sense as it prioritizes too much on environmental beauty, which often inflates some nations. A real-world example would be China, a country that has high tourist numbers but wouldn't rank highly in environmental beauty.

[Leutria]

I figure this thread still works for talking about the betas in general, so I shall do that

Anyway, it would be helpful if we had more of an idea of what sort of feedback the admin would like on the betas, particularly the new stats as I expect they are drive by backroom numbers we currently don’t have much knowledge of/have not been fully implemented. Just if they seem reasonable on face value? Or should we be trying to guess at what drives them and suggesting what statistics we think should be feeding into them?

Either way, it does make me excited about NationStates again to see changes like this being made

[[violet]]

Anyway, it would be helpful if we had more of an idea of what sort of feedback the admin would like on the betas

There are a lot of freaky nations out there, and sometimes one of them breaks an algorithm that otherwise seems sensible enough. So my main interest is in hearing from people who managed to stumble across a bizarre corner case where the scale clearly isn't properly measuring what it's supposed to.

[Merconitonitopia]

War is listed at .7% for cause of death, while disappearance is... 94.9%.

I never did fully understand where that came from, and I always kind of took it as a humorous badge of honour.

It's caused by corruption. Heard of the Dirty War? It's that sort of disappearance.

Oddly enough, it appears to be caused solely by corruption, and takes no account of how authoritarian the nation is. It is only incidental that high-disappearance countries are usually authoritarian, as authoritarianism and corruption go hand in hand. This nation is as un-authoritarian as can be, but still has high disappearance caused by corruption.