NationStates

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:I'm pretty happy too, as a load of ideas I came up with a long time ago have now been moved to public beta. Hoping Violet makes the discussion threads for those Betas soon, so I can explain my thoughts behind each.

Looking forward to it. If she doesn't in a few weeks, you could make the threads and get the threads linked later. Super curious about Patriotism, been asking around and no one knows much more than the news post/beta page.

Well, while we're waiting...

Patriotism is a funny one, as it will eventually largely depend on a new backstage stat that isn't yet coded into the game. The beta only reveals the smaller effect that will be calculated from existing numbers, and provides only a baseline. Once it goes live, issues will be rejigged with a view to assessing how patriotic various options are, and coding changes directly onto those. With admin's permission, I might start the work ahead of it going live.

Of all the new stats, it's the one where the beta least resembles what it will finally look like in play.

Flanderlion wrote:you could make the threads and get the threads linked later

^^^ This

I'm not sure what the tourism rescaling is about or how it fixes the current system.

Outer Sparta wrote:I'm not sure what the tourism rescaling is about or how it fixes the current system.

Well, for example, look at recent issue #1275. Option 2 is explicitly all about encouraging tourism, yet currently it always results in a reduction in Tourism, because the environmental degradation caused by those extra tourists (which you're... not actually getting) completely dominates any other factors in determining your attractiveness to tourists. Hopefully the beta will fix that, and similar situations in other issues.

Trotterdam wrote:

Outer Sparta wrote:I'm not sure what the tourism rescaling is about or how it fixes the current system.

Well, for example, look at recent issue #1275. Option 2 is explicitly all about encouraging tourism, yet currently it always results in a reduction in Tourism, because the environmental degradation caused by those extra tourists (which you're... not actually getting) completely dominates any other factors in determining your attractiveness to tourists. Hopefully the beta will fix that, and similar situations in other issues.

What about for nations that are ranked highly in tourism having large drops? It won't affect world rankings, but it will affect the census numbers themselves.

Outer Sparta wrote:What about for nations that are ranked highly in tourism having large drops?

What about them?

If a nation previously ranked highly in Tourism solely on the basis of its beautiful environment, without having any other attractions that tourists might be interested in or even good hotels or transportation infrastructure, then it makes sense that Tourism would drop as a result of this change.

Actually, now that I look at it, the beta doesn't mention transportation infrastructure being considered as a factor...

Trotterdam wrote:

Outer Sparta wrote:What about for nations that are ranked highly in tourism having large drops?

What about them?

If a nation previously ranked highly in Tourism solely on the basis of its beautiful environment, without having any other attractions that tourists might be interested in or even good hotels or transportation infrastructure, then it makes sense that Tourism would drop as a result of this change.

Actually, now that I look at it, the beta doesn't mention transportation infrastructure being considered as a factor...

This looks like a job for my shameless plug!

So... Tourism vs Environmental Beauty? Or Tourism vs Public Transport?

[violet] wrote:

Flanderlion wrote:you could make the threads and get the threads linked later

^^^ This

Anyone who wants to do that for each separately for each Beta, do go ahead, and I'll chip in comments.

Trotterdam wrote:

Outer Sparta wrote:What about for nations that are ranked highly in tourism having large drops?

What about them?

If a nation previously ranked highly in Tourism solely on the basis of its beautiful environment, without having any other attractions that tourists might be interested in or even good hotels or transportation infrastructure, then it makes sense that Tourism would drop as a result of this change.

Actually, now that I look at it, the beta doesn't mention transportation infrastructure being considered as a factor...

The hard coding of that relationship isn't changing, though of course the sim is complicated enough that there may be knock on changes on the emergent effects. However, there's definitely issues which talk about transport in relation to tourist activity, like for example #634, where the last option can introduce tourism-friendly low speed trains that pootle through the villages.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:However, there's definitely issues which talk about transport in relation to tourist activity, like for example #634, where the last option can introduce tourism-friendly low speed trains that pootle through the villages.

Low-speed trains might be appealing to some sightseers (both on and off the trains), but many tourists would appreciate simply having good (which usually means fast) transport to easily get them from their homes to the tourist attractions and back. You can't have tourism without transport, and better transport would definitely cater to tourists of nearly all kinds. No matter what tourist attractions you're looking for, you still need transportation to get there.

Trotterdam wrote:

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:However, there's definitely issues which talk about transport in relation to tourist activity, like for example #634, where the last option can introduce tourism-friendly low speed trains that pootle through the villages.

Low-speed trains might be appealing to some sightseers (both on and off the trains), but many tourists would appreciate simply having good (which usually means fast) transport to easily get them from their homes to the tourist attractions and back. You can't have tourism without transport, and better transport would definitely cater to tourists of nearly all kinds. No matter what tourist attractions you're looking for, you still need transportation to get there.

True, but on the other hand you can get transport infrastructure that doesn't make much difference to tourism, and tourism that isn't much dependent on transport infrastructure. An airport to city centre train link would be a big attraction to tourism, while adding more commuter buses for weekday mornings won't have as much bearing. That in mind, it's easier for us to judge the case by case scenarios and assign tourism boosts according to the specific projects.

Apparently the new black market changes just multiply everyone's black market by 10 at the moment, although I could be wrong. I saw my black market go up from 181 billion to 1.8 trillion. My puppets experienced the same multiplier.

Edit: Now the intended Beta changes are kicking in and my black market drops to 101 billion. How long does it take for the beta to be fully threshed out and implemented, since I know it takes a bit of work for the stats to line up as it intends.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:

[violet] wrote:^^^ This

Anyone who wants to do that for each separately for each Beta, do go ahead, and I'll chip in comments.

Alright, I will bite and do that. Since right now they are all being discussed mixed together in 2 different threads. If the mods decide this isn’t desirable feel free to merge them or throw them into the void.

I hope this doesn't fall under the Gravedig rule, so err... I was wondering if there are updates on the new stats (Generosity, Ease of Commute, Food Quality, Patriotism) and that Tourism and Civil Rights beta change?

I'm looking forward to seeing these new stats, and getting new batches of data for my personal project.

From a personal pov, COVID-19 is limiting my NS time, as I'm frontline healthcare staff. No idea what the admin and tech teams are up to as I've not been able to keep in touch, but I think maybe expect most people's minds to be a little occupied right now.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:From a personal pov, COVID-19 is limiting my NS time, as I'm frontline healthcare staff. No idea what the admin and tech teams are up to as I've not been able to keep in touch, but I think maybe expect most people's minds to be a little occupied right now.

Fully understand. Please stay safe, CWA - thanks for your work and service.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:From a personal pov, COVID-19 is limiting my NS time, as I'm frontline healthcare staff. No idea what the admin and tech teams are up to as I've not been able to keep in touch, but I think maybe expect most people's minds to be a little occupied right now.

Understandable. Please stay safe out there! ><