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[Suggestion] Monthly Card Game/Bank Supplement

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Giant Baba
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Founded: Jun 23, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

[Suggestion] Monthly Card Game/Bank Supplement

Postby Giant Baba » Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:40 am

I would like to propose a new feature for Season 2 of the Card Game. On the first of each month, all Nations would receive a supplement of 10 Bank deposited into their account. This benefit would occur independent of answering issues with-in the card game itself. The goal of the proposal is to make the game more fun for new NS players that are just starting out. It would balance the need for something that would be easy to implement, while not discriminating against how any active NS user plays the card game.

Currently, those who begin playing NS for the first time and attempt to use the card game find themselves with limited options. Starting with zero bank, they lack the capital to upgrade their deck size and face severe limitations on the extent to which they can
engage in the auction process. Depending upon how active such players are with logging in and answering issues, they may find themselves on the outside looking in for quite some time.

I suggest we remove this barrier for entry by supplementing each nation's account with a recurring bank deposit of 10 every month. This would give new players near immediate ability to participate in all aspects of the card game. They could use the bank supplement to engage in the auction process, increase their deck size, store the deposit for future purchases or gift cards across accounts to themselves or other players. In other words, they could play the card game using features that are currently bank prohibitive.

The monthly supplement would also encourage NS account retention, as those who may not be very active throughout the year would have something to 'look forward to' as they continue to accumulate their bank supplement on the first of each month, potentially reigniting their card game play interest should they return from absence.

The monthly bank supplement would be universally applied to all active players, and would not interfere with how any existing player chooses to participate in the game. Small niche collectors could apply the bank of ignore it. Large card farmers could do the same. One monthly bank supplement per nation account, all players equally eligible.

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9003
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Founded: Oct 25, 2012
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Postby 9003 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:04 am

Not to sound extremely sarcastic or snarky but if they did ever give everyone a bank "stimulus" package to each nation some of us (larger famers) would break the economy I would have an income of several thousand a month significantly more than I get from farming alone. It is also important to realize everyone started with 0 while yes now it may take longer to get legendaries becuse they are more expensive you also get more money by selling them.

I do understand and agree its not easy to climb the leader board if you start late I missed out on the first wave of cards in April and I've spent hundreds buying low owner cards from people who stock piled random cards from then. I just don't think giving people free money is the way to solve this issue
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Giant Baba
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Founded: Jun 23, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Giant Baba » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:45 am

9003 wrote:Not to sound extremely sarcastic or snarky but if they did ever give everyone a bank "stimulus" package to each nation some of us (larger famers) would break the economy I would have an income of several thousand a month significantly more than I get from farming alone.


Not to sound condescending, but it isn't possible for you or any other player (or group of players) to 'break the economy' of the NS card game. Any action with-in (other than hoarding) would increase market activity and liquidity, which in effect would enhance the marketplace for all players (ie. rising Card/Deck values, larger auction participation rates, putting more money into circulation, etc). With access to a monthly Bank supplement, all players would now have more of an ability to participate in some of the fun, even if they are single nation non-Card farmers who rarely log in and answer issues. Currently, many of those types of players are relegated to the sidelines, with Bank levels so low that they have little in the way of game play options.

9003 wrote:It is also important to realize everyone started with 0 while yes now it may take longer to get legendaries becuse they are more expensive you also get more money by selling them. I do understand and agree its not easy to climb the leader board if you start late I missed out on the first wave of cards in April and I've spent hundreds buying low owner cards from people who stock piled random cards from then.


From a practicality standpoint, many NS players don't have the time to replicate your formula of accumulating a large Bank and then spending "hundreds buying low owner cards from people who stock piled random cards". The majority of casual players will probably never accumulate a Bank level that approaches even low triple digits under the current formula. Many single nation players may never even come to possess a single Legendary card in their entire collection. This is more so likely for those who fall out of favor with the issues answering part of the game, and then expire because the supplemental card game really doesn't offer much additional enjoyment for them to partake in. Sad but true.

Putting any leader board and/or niche collecting aspirations aside, the goal of the proposal is to eliminate the problem of Bank poverty and foster an environment that is more functional for as many NS players as possible. Unless the issue of Bank levels is addressed, many casual players (the majority of the NS community as a whole) will be mostly marketplace observers, not participants.

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9003
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Postby 9003 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:16 pm

But any card worth a crap would sky rocket in price and be even further out of reach of small sideline players. All that would happen is people who have more puppets would become richer and the poor would have money but they money would be worthless

It would switch the focus from an activity that moves the economy forward (card farming) becuse it creates a lot of new cards vs money for nothing that would just lead to hording of cards and price gouging and setting them to high
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Giant Baba
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Founded: Jun 23, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Giant Baba » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:21 pm

9003 wrote:But any card worth a crap would sky rocket in price and be even further out of reach of small sideline players. All that would happen is people who have more puppets would become richer and the poor would have money but they money would be worthless


All value in the card game is subjective. A player that may want to do something like simply collect all the common, uncommon, rare and epic cards from his region or accumulate purple elephant flag cards would be more enabled to collect those things if they simply had a bank supplement that kept their account above poverty level. If such a person who couldn't care less about leader boards or high value cards, wouldnow get more fulfillment from the card game, then mission accomplished!

In terms of high market value cards, the top cards in the game have always seen their values fluctuate over time independent of how much money has been in the economy or how rich certain card farmers may be. For example, today there is more money in the economy chasing a card such as Queen Yuno than there was back in April when it was trading at it's high. If more money in the hands of certain players should result in ever rising prices of high value cards, how is it possible that a card that once sold for 679.50 is now only at 174 with a current high bid that is below even that market value? Supply fluctuates and creates price volatility. The phenomena of a card permanently sky-rocketing in price and being forever out of reach doesn't coincide with reality. Just as in the real stock markets of the world, they all go up and down and always will.

9003 wrote:It would switch the focus from an activity that moves the economy forward (card farming) because it creates a lot of new cards vs money for nothing that would just lead to hording of cards and price gouging and setting them to high


It's neither an either/or, the two are complementary. While I strongly agree that card farming moves the economy forward (and would encourage additional steps to further enhance its appeal to all players) a minimum monthly bank deposit is designed to assist the game play experience for those NS players who don't want to or don't have the time/resources to card farm. Many such players are currently relegated to poverty level banks, and their lack of quality game play experience should be a concern to all who want to see the card game thrive long term for everyone. Doing nothing, just maintaining the status quo, is leaving a lot of people in our community behind.

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Flanderlion
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Postby Flanderlion » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:12 am

Despite not having my WA on the nation I do cards with, I wouldn't mind having WA nations having a card pack each week/day - some nations don't want to answer issues for some strange reason, and gives another incentive to WA up, while avoiding the issues of large puppet holders.

Separately a Season 2 would be nice, and although it wasn't favoured due to server issues, if that can be solved increasing the default deck size and decreasing the price/increasing the increase of deck upgrades.

I'm against card farming, and although it is far far far better than it was prior, giving free bank/cards to non-WA nations I'm personally against.
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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:28 am

Flanderlion wrote:Despite not having my WA on the nation I do cards with, I wouldn't mind having WA nations having a card pack each week/day - some nations don't want to answer issues for some strange reason, and gives another incentive to WA up, while avoiding the issues of large puppet holders.

Separately a Season 2 would be nice, and although it wasn't favoured due to server issues, if that can be solved increasing the default deck size and decreasing the price/increasing the increase of deck upgrades.

I'm against card farming, and although it is far far far better than it was prior, giving free bank/cards to non-WA nations I'm personally against.

Wait we're not getting season two?
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Flanderlion
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Postby Flanderlion » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:00 am

Aclion wrote:
Flanderlion wrote:Despite not having my WA on the nation I do cards with, I wouldn't mind having WA nations having a card pack each week/day - some nations don't want to answer issues for some strange reason, and gives another incentive to WA up, while avoiding the issues of large puppet holders.

Separately a Season 2 would be nice, and although it wasn't favoured due to server issues, if that can be solved increasing the default deck size and decreasing the price/increasing the increase of deck upgrades.

I'm against card farming, and although it is far far far better than it was prior, giving free bank/cards to non-WA nations I'm personally against.

Wait we're not getting season two?

Unknown re Season 2, I think I saw something along the lines of that a while ago, but then again, it was a while ago. I was meaning more I think they're two separate ideas, giving players bank/cards without answering issues, and a Season 2.
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Frisbeeteria
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Postby Frisbeeteria » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:52 am

Flanderlion wrote:I think I saw something along the lines of that a while ago

I think you didn't. We're pretty sure that there will be a Season 2 ... at the whim of [violet]. Literally no one else has any definitive information.

Flanderlion wrote:I wouldn't mind having WA nations having a card pack each week/day

What would you say to getting one or more packs with every vote rather than on a schedule? With two chambers and 4 days of voting each, you could potentially get a minimum of 4 packs every 8 days. I'd give two packs and make it 8 packs a week - less if there's not much at vote.

The current setup has vastly increased the answering of issues. Maybe we could revitalize the WA a bit by handing out cards to active players. I don't think non-voting players should get cards simply for signing up. You have to participate actively.

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Flanderlion
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Postby Flanderlion » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:18 am

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Flanderlion wrote:I think I saw something along the lines of that a while ago

I think you didn't. We're pretty sure that there will be a Season 2 ... at the whim of [violet]. Literally no one else has any definitive information.

Was just referring to admin posts around a Season 2, nothing saying there would be or wouldn't. e.g. viewtopic.php?p=35157636#p35157636 or viewtopic.php?p=35893256#p35893256

Frisbeeteria";p="36193837"
[quote="Flanderlion wrote:
I wouldn't mind having WA nations having a card pack each week/day

What would you say to getting one or more packs with every vote rather than on a schedule? With two chambers and 4 days of voting each, you could potentially get a minimum of 4 packs every 8 days. I'd give two packs and make it 8 packs a week - less if there's not much at vote...Maybe we could revitalize the WA a bit by handing out cards to active players. I don't think non-voting players should get cards simply for signing up. You have to participate actively.[/quote]
Sure, personally I think that's a better idea (was going to say something about having logged in for the last week or something), but there are other more opinionated parties if it is tied to WA votes. I try to avoid saying anything about tying things to WA votes though with tech ideas, purely because the GA crowd comes in with opinions often presented very strongly (I still remember trying to get the SecGen election back). A pack for when you vote, and when the vote ends instead of getting 2 at the same time?

Frisbeeteria wrote:The current setup has vastly increased the answering of issues.

Is the increase of answering issues by card farmers who don't look at what they pick, or of actual players deciding to take up answering issues again because they get cards? The latter is good imo, but the former seems like activity for activities sake, and if anything harms issues for the rest of us, as would mess up metrics if someone logs into 1000 nations and picks the 1st option for every issue.
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Galiantus III
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Postby Galiantus III » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:19 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:Is the increase of answering issues by card farmers who don't look at what they pick, or of actual players deciding to take up answering issues again because they get cards? The latter is good imo, but the former seems like activity for activities sake, and if anything harms issues for the rest of us, as would mess up metrics if someone logs into 1000 nations and picks the 1st option for every issue.

I think some of each, but mostly card farming. One card farmer can easily answer over a thousand issues per day, but most people aren't farming cards. I personally used to card farm, but I don't have the time or willingness to do it anymore, so I just answer issues on a handful of puppets and gift anything of value to my main.

In my opinion, card farming has the potential to both hurt the issues game and the cards game, and needs to be significantly reduced. If a certain device/IP address answers 50+ issues within half an hour, issues answered from that device should cease generating card packs for the next six hours. Seriously, this is as bad as if multying were legal. I know we can't limit the cards to the WA, but we need to do something about this.

Flanderlion wrote:A pack for when you vote, and when the vote ends instead of getting 2 at the same time?

I think it would have to be limited to when the vote ends, not when you vote. Otherwise you have to track players switching their WA to get card packs by voting with a whole bunch of different nations. If cards are generated at the end of the vote it at least keeps things simple.
Last edited by Galiantus III on Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Earthbound Immortal Squad
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Postby Earthbound Immortal Squad » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:25 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Flanderlion wrote:I think I saw something along the lines of that a while ago

I think you didn't. We're pretty sure that there will be a Season 2 ... at the whim of [violet]. Literally no one else has any definitive information.

Flanderlion wrote:I wouldn't mind having WA nations having a card pack each week/day

What would you say to getting one or more packs with every vote rather than on a schedule? With two chambers and 4 days of voting each, you could potentially get a minimum of 4 packs every 8 days. I'd give two packs and make it 8 packs a week - less if there's not much at vote.

The current setup has vastly increased the answering of issues. Maybe we could revitalize the WA a bit by handing out cards to active players. I don't think non-voting players should get cards simply for signing up. You have to participate actively.



What about rather than increasing the number of packs for a WA nation instead increase the chance of getting a pack with a WA nation. It shouldn't be anything to drastically alter the balance but just enough to offer single nation casual players an incentive to join the WA.
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Giant Baba
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Founded: Jun 23, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Giant Baba » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:31 pm

Galiantus III wrote:In my opinion, card farming has the potential to both hurt the issues game and the cards game, and needs to be significantly reduced. If a certain device/IP address answers 50+ issues within half an hour, issues answered from that device should cease generating card packs for the next six hours. Seriously, this is as bad as if multying were legal. I know we can't limit the cards to the WA, but we need to do something about this.


We have very different game play preferences (neither right nor wrong, just different). From my perspective, Card Farming brings forth to NS the type of element that Institutions serve in the real stock markets of the world. Whereas a relatively small number of Hedge/Mutual/Sovereign Wealth Funds, Pensions, Venture Capitalists, Market Makers, Corporations Trading for their own accounts, etc. account for roughly 80% of all daily real life transactions, CFs play the same type of function: driving volume, generating volatility and providing liquidity throughout the card game economy. In the real world, small investors are at the mercy of forces beyond their control, picking up wins and losses driven by a small but powerful group that dictates market trends. In the NS card game, those who join that small group of market movers and shakers do so by investing their time in answering issues, opening packs, strategically transferring cards, generating Bank and ultimately using the auction place to buy/sell and pull the economy beyond where it would otherwise be.

If card farming were to become more limited or disappear entirely, there would definitely be more of a trend toward equalized outcomes. The institutional investor element that comes about from some players being more competitive and proactive without a cap on taking initiative would dissipate, along with the results that come with it. The card game would become more along the lines of a hobby like bird watching or stamp collecting. The strategic element of game play would be much more limited, and the luck of a limited draw (what cards a player randomly gets in their capped number of packs) would replace attempts by players to be resourceful and imaginative without restriction. Personally, that's not my cup of tea. I couldn't see that style of NS card game holding my interest for very long. YMMV

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Frisbeeteria
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Postby Frisbeeteria » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:39 pm

Giant Baba wrote: In the NS card game, those who join that small group of market movers and shakers do so by investing their time in answering issues, opening packs, strategically transferring cards, generating Bank and ultimately using the auction place to buy/sell and pull the economy beyond where it would otherwise be.

I'd never thought about it in those terms, but you're absolutely correct ... at least about my play style and motivation. From the very start of the game, it was obvious that Legendary cards would develop their own market-driven behavior, so I picked Epics cards to advance. I acted as a broker - buying low and selling high. I was frequently overbid and under-asked, but that's fine. My objective wasn't to accumulate the most bank - it was to have a Buy or Sell order on every Epic in the game. I'm happy to say that I think I succeeded.

There were traders who surpassed my Epic collection, or at least specific parts (like all Ex-nations or all from given regions), but they didn't make a market like I did. They might sell their excess cards, but they always hung on to their core favorites. As a market maker, I made a point of having every Epic card that I owned for sale. For a long time, I ran a similar market in Legendary cards; but when it became obvious that there was no need for a market maker, I became a buy-and-hold investor.

Now there are specialist market makers for Ultra Rares, Commons, Ex-nations, and so on. The "Institutional Investors" are here and thriving. And I still have cards for sale to all the other players. Just don't go looking for bargains. I'm more Merrill Lynch than Charles Schwab.


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