More Perks For Supporters Please

[Xerographica]

The OP seems pretty interested in asking what proportion of forumgoers, like themself, receive nothing from gameside at all, so I just did some back of the envelope maths to get a rough idea:

Thanks for sharing your estimate. My issue is that the division of members between the game and the forums doesn't accurately reflect the division of benefit. Would it be useful to know the actual division of benefit?

[Glacikaldr]

The only reason I saw a forum admin give for not doing a yearly raffle is that they don't want to spend money on people that have already bought the highest donation package on NationStates. Great to know they appreciate us.

[Reploid Productions]

The only reason I saw a forum admin give for not doing a yearly raffle is that they don't want to spend money on people that have already bought the highest donation package on NationStates. Great to know they appreciate us.

Since you apparently missed it:

We do not have the systems in place for collecting/storing such information nor the infrastructure in place to run the raffle or handle distribution of prizes. Techie time is better spent on features of the site that benefit everyone, not just the site supporters. The techies have no interest in spending their time for a raffle when that time can be spent on gameplay improvements, RMB improvements, and so on.

[Jar Wattinree]

The OP seems pretty interested in asking what proportion of forumgoers, like themself, receive nothing from gameside at all, so I just did some back of the envelope maths to get a rough idea:

According to various pages, (about) 5,847,515 nations have ever been created. By comparison, the forum has (currently) 1,140,638 accounts, according to the footer at the bottom. Now, I really don't know for certain how joining the forum works, and when it actually happens, but if it works how I think it does, that means somewhere around eighty percent of nations never looked or look at the forums at all.

Of course, there are lots of confounding factors here; many gameside nations may be puppets, may have gone inactive immediately, or may have just existed only for the Jolt forums, I dunno. However, the same applies to the forumside nations--a decent number are likely adbots alternate, or throwaway accounts. And, its likely that many, if not most, of the users with forum accounts also use gameside. In the end though, it doesn't really matter; it's clear that the vast majority of the site's userbase is rooted in the actual game itself, even if the exact ratios are essentially unknowable.

No intention to step on any toes here, I just found it interesting.

You "join" the forum when you click on and go to the forum itself, even if you don't participate or look at it again.

[Glacikaldr]

I'd argue that's the exact same thing but you do you boo.

[USS Monitor]

I'd argue that's the exact same thing but you do you boo.

It's time, not just money.

[Glacikaldr]

I'd argue that's the exact same thing but you do you boo.

It's time, not just money.

My apologies: I should have used similar. It has the same tone, of course. My initial response was an exaggeration on my part though. Yet, if the intention is to increase interest in donating - being getting more perks for supporters - then time will need to be spent on infrastructure for that regardless.

If that is to be seen as a waste of time (perhaps 'tech' is undermanned? I presume it's mainly volunteers though), then that is an appropriate response to the suggestion; but, if getting more support through additionally perks is a worthwhile venture, the alternative is going to demand additional time and effort nevertheless.

You'll have to excuse me for now though, it's nearing 5 am and I should try to get some sleep. I assume the main dilemma here of, 'is making donating more appealing worth our time', is being addressed internally? No leaking but I imagine a subtle nod would suffice most of the players messaging here.

[Mallorea and Riva]

If that is to be seen as a waste of time (perhaps 'tech' is undermanned? I presume it's mainly volunteers though),

Getting more supporters is always great. Creating a more enjoyable experience is also always great. The admin staff is, has been, and likely always will be, short on time. So when suggestions come along, they need to be triaged. "Send a book to a random subscriber" is a nice notion, but the time that would go into setting it up might be better spent providing essential features or on different changes. It's difficult to say on many issues, and we're trying to flag that for you (and Xero). That's not to say we don't like the idea of increasing the number of supporters, of course we do.

[Glacikaldr]

Copy - good to hear (I shouldn't have had doubts that's the case anyway). o7

Thank you for being more reasonable than my first message

Have a great day or night all.

[Wabbitslayah]

First off, I'm far more interested in features that everyone can use. Lots of things have massively improved in my time here and even more so for people since antiquity or the early years. Lots of these things took a good deal of time to even be implemented and some never got implemented (Either it just hasn't been worth the time/scrapped, or still in the works just on the back burner).

From what I remember, upgrading a lot of the site/forums to "modern times" is just not feasible, they'd have to rewrite everything. If NS2 was something that came up in these times instead of the past and without Jolt, there may have been a good "upgrade", but that was a crapshoot then and why change if things still work now?

But, the Admins have made a lot of changes and good ones that have made the game much better. Which will likely continue over time, if albeit slower for many people's tastes. That ya'll have to be patient.

I do want to thank the Admins and the Mods for making those things happen over the years.

Anyways, I'm content with that and want to see more features and hope they are feasible. I'm not sure about giving more features to only a select group of people who use this site, as regular upgrades for all is better.

While I said before I wouldn't mind supporter features, I struggle to think of anything good. We already get an on-site badge, ad removal, and large or unlimited folders/telegram capacity. I'd rather have something more utilitarian than something shiny to brag about or to stand out. The problem with that is again why should a select group get these features and not everyone else? It's not about fairness and I paid money and they didn't, but more about making the game better for everyone.

With that in mind, what suggestions are worth the time and effort to implement? Does it effect everyone or some specific group? Does it benefit anyone and not fluff? All those suggestions I've seen are fluff to me and benefits no one really.

[Xerographica]

So far I've bought gifts for three members. Before doing so, I had to click on their username, and then I had to click on the link to their nation page, which I then had to carefully scan to see whether or not it had a supporter trophy. It would save me so much time and energy if I could simple discern from their username whether or not they were already a supporter.

Would it be a reasonable compromise to display supporter info on a member's profile page? For example, here's Wabbitslayah profile page. There's plenty of space on that page to say something like, "Woohoooo!!! Wabbitslayah is a Postmaster General!!!!!"

[Xerographica]

I just had the idea that only Supporters should be able to post in the Moderation forum. I'm not saying that this is a good idea. I'm not saying that this is a bad idea. I'm just saying that I just had this idea.

[Mallorea and Riva]

I just had the idea that only Supporters should be able to post in the Moderation forum. I'm not saying that this is a good idea. I'm not saying that this is a bad idea. I'm just saying that I just had this idea.

That is an abysmal idea.

[Reploid Productions]

I just had the idea that only Supporters should be able to post in the Moderation forum. I'm not saying that this is a good idea. I'm not saying that this is a bad idea. I'm just saying that I just had this idea.

As Mall already stated, this is a horrid idea. Rules enforcement should not be restricted to paid users. Every user has the right to report rulebreaking/discuss the rules/ask questions about the rules.

As for putting something proclaiming Site Supporter status into the forum profile, that again requires the techies to muck around with the phpBB install, and [v] has been very firmly against mucking around with that any more than is strictly necessary to get the game and forum to work together. Nice idea, and certainly reasonable, but outside the bounds of what's possible at this time. (Nothing says users can't proclaim their supporter status in their forum sigs though.)

[Xerographica]

I just had the idea that only Supporters should be able to post in the Moderation forum. I'm not saying that this is a good idea. I'm not saying that this is a bad idea. I'm just saying that I just had this idea.

That is an abysmal idea.

Some of my ideas are worse than others. But I admit being curious about this idea. Let's say that Frank, who isn't a supporter, wants to report flaming. What does he do? Does he telegram a moderator? Or does he telegram a supporter? Let's say that he telegrams me... "Here's a problem that I've found. Please post it in the Moderation forum. Thanks." I'd respond, "Naw guy, that's not flaming. It's just full-contact bantering."

Right now if I have a problem I don't report it directly to Max Barry. Instead, I have to report it to the moderators. Evidently it's beneficial to have a chain of command. If there's one thing I learned in the military, it is that the chain of command is sacred. But the military's chain of command is quite different than this forum's. This forum has far fewer links in the chain. Is this a good thing? Why, exactly, would it be detrimental if supporters became a link in the chain of command?

Hierarchies always have room for improvement.

[Reploid Productions]

That is an abysmal idea.

Some of my ideas are worse than others. But I admit being curious about this idea. Let's say that Frank, who isn't a supporter, wants to report flaming. What does he do? Does he telegram a moderator? Or does he telegram a supporter? Let's say that he telegrams me... "Here's a problem that I've found. Please post it in the Moderation forum. Thanks." I'd respond, "Naw guy, that's not flaming. It's just full-contact bantering."

Right now if I have a problem I don't report it directly to Max Barry. Instead, I have to report it to the moderators. Evidently it's beneficial to have a chain of command. If there's one thing I learned in the military, it is that the chain of command is sacred. But the military's chain of command is quite different than this forum's. This forum has far fewer links in the chain. Is this a good thing? Why, exactly, would it be detrimental if supporters became a link in the chain of command?

Hierarchies always have room for improvement.

We are not effectively turning paid supporters into minimod gatekeepers. Period.

[Mallorea and Riva]

That is an abysmal idea.

Some of my ideas are worse than others. But I admit being curious about this idea. Let's say that Frank, who isn't a supporter, wants to report flaming. What does he do? Does he telegram a moderator? Or does he telegram a supporter? Let's say that he telegrams me... "Here's a problem that I've found. Please post it in the Moderation forum. Thanks." I'd respond, "Naw guy, that's not flaming. It's just full-contact bantering."

Right now if I have a problem I don't report it directly to Max Barry. Instead, I have to report it to the moderators. Evidently it's beneficial to have a chain of command. If there's one thing I learned in the military, it is that the chain of command is sacred. But the military's chain of command is quite different than this forum's. This forum has far fewer links in the chain. Is this a good thing? Why, exactly, would it be detrimental if supporters became a link in the chain of command?

Hierarchies always have room for improvement.

Because if a user sees child porn on the forum I don't want them to have to go to you or any other supporter before that information comes to those who can fix the problem. I want them to be able to immediately come to us.

[Valentine Z]

Adding on to all of this is that being a Supporter is completely voluntary, i.e. you don't need it to play NS, but if you're feeling generous or love the site, you can donate and buy from the store for a good cause. Things like Postmaster-General are also optional (but I bought it, ha!) because there's always Word or some word processor to keep track of your Teles before it gets filled again.

The point I want to make here is, supporting should be a voluntary cause (I'm not saying that we should not give money to NS). It's a great game, and I WILL dread the day when I see a banner "Want to be a Mini Forum Moderator? That will be $9.99, please," or any other features that will turn the game into a Pay-to-Win Pay-to-Dominate.

We are not effectively turning paid supporters into minimod gatekeepers. Period.

^ Exactly this.

At this point, please do correct me if I'm wrong, but this is just how I see the site as a whole.

---

In short, I like NS the way it is, and I am already glad to pay for Postmaster even if "the benefits are just Tele space plus reserving name, etc".

[Xerographica]

Some of my ideas are worse than others. But I admit being curious about this idea. Let's say that Frank, who isn't a supporter, wants to report flaming. What does he do? Does he telegram a moderator? Or does he telegram a supporter? Let's say that he telegrams me... "Here's a problem that I've found. Please post it in the Moderation forum. Thanks." I'd respond, "Naw guy, that's not flaming. It's just full-contact bantering."

Right now if I have a problem I don't report it directly to Max Barry. Instead, I have to report it to the moderators. Evidently it's beneficial to have a chain of command. If there's one thing I learned in the military, it is that the chain of command is sacred. But the military's chain of command is quite different than this forum's. This forum has far fewer links in the chain. Is this a good thing? Why, exactly, would it be detrimental if supporters became a link in the chain of command?

Hierarchies always have room for improvement.

Because if a user sees child porn on the forum I don't want them to have to go to you or any other supporter before that information comes to those who can fix the problem. I want them to be able to immediately come to us.

But I've never once seen child porn reported in moderation. Instead, I've seen a multitude of frivolous problems. I'm not saying that there are never serious problem. I'm saying that, it would be nice if you didn't have to waste your valuable time on frivolous problems.

[Reploid Productions]

But I've never once seen child porn reported in moderation. Instead, I've seen a multitude of frivolous problems. I'm not saying that there are never serious problem. I'm saying that, it would be nice if you didn't have to waste your valuable time on frivolous problems.

We are not turning paid supporters into minimods.

[Frisbeeteria]

I just had the idea that only Supporters should be able to post in the Moderation forum.

Are you going to keep posting ludicrously absurd suggestions until we finally accept one, thus being able to point to this thread and say "Yah! A win for pragmanostificationairianism" or whatever your silly economic theory is called? Because it's not going to happen. Either we'll continue to point out the reason why your suggestions are absurd ... or we'll close this threadjack of a thread as yet another Xerographica economics theory thread that should have been in NSG.

But I've never once seen child porn reported in moderation.

That doesn't mean it never happened.

it would be nice if you didn't have to waste your valuable time on frivolous problems.

We're moderators on an internet forum heavily devoted to teens and young adults. They're almost all frivolous problems. That's what we signed up for.

[Xerographica]

I just had the idea that only Supporters should be able to post in the Moderation forum.

Are you going to keep posting ludicrously absurd suggestions until we finally accept one,

This is just brainstorming. This website has countless threads filled with 500 pages of nonsense... but there can't be one thread dedicated to brainstorming ways to provide more value for Supporters? You don't like my ideas? Guess what? I'm really not preventing you from sharing better ones. Have you even shared one idea in this thread about how to increase value for Supporters?

[Mallorea and Riva]

Because if a user sees child porn on the forum I don't want them to have to go to you or any other supporter before that information comes to those who can fix the problem. I want them to be able to immediately come to us.

But I've never once seen child porn reported in moderation. Instead, I've seen a multitude of frivolous problems. I'm not saying that there are never serious problem. I'm saying that, it would be nice if you didn't have to waste your valuable time on frivolous problems.

I would rather waste my time on 10 frivolous problems than have users unable to report 1 serious problem directly to us.

Are you going to keep posting ludicrously absurd suggestions until we finally accept one,

This is just brainstorming. This website has countless threads filled with 500 pages of nonsense... but there can't be one thread dedicated to brainstorming ways to provide more value for Supporters? You don't like my ideas? Guess what? I'm really not preventing you from sharing better ones. Have you even shared one idea in this thread about how to increase value for Supporters?

You have hit us with a series of ridiculous ideas. We have taken the time to respond to them, trying to help you understand why they are ridiculous. Tech is full of suggestions to improve the game, and we engage them when we have time. That does not mean we are obligated to sit here and brainstorm with you, particularly when most of our time in here has been spent explaining why your ideas don't work. Personally I find that the way I increase (or at least sustain) value for supporters is by moderating and by reigning in tech threads like this to help people understand how things work.

[Flanderlion]

The OP states that free-riding is a real problem. Is it? If so, wouldn't just preventing ad-block be a better option. But I haven't seen any evidence that free-riding is a problem. Like, unified accounts would be cool and merging all my post master generals into X amount of stamps (usable on my account, not just 1 nation) would be better.

I'd like my unlimited inbox to get older TGs that were autodeleted before I had PMG and the welcome TGs for my region when it changes, if I had to pick another supporter perk, but really, I'm pretty happy with status quo, and would prefer admin to do other cool features like Accounts, Annex, Secretary-General or another cool feature which I can't think of off the top of my head.

I don't think there is a problem that needs to be solved here. More perks is good I guess, but not if it's taking admin time away from other more important features/fixes.

[Frisbeeteria]

Have you even shared one idea in this thread about how to increase value for Supporters?

I'm not the one who thinks we need one. You, and maybe one or two other posters in this thread are the only ones to have this idea since the introduction of Supporter accounts.

A small one time payment to get rid of ads permanently and prevents reuse of the nation names seems like a terrific value. Two slightly larger, but still one time payments improves private communication. I don't see a need for more. I don't see a need for metrics on why we need more. I don't see any suggestions in this thread that are useful, reasonable, and balanced.

Though now that I think of it, I did share one. It's not feasible at the moment, but it might eventually happen. And it's a big one - sharing your Supporter account across all your puppets.