More Perks For Supporters Please

[The Free Joy State]

I'd have said that viable, interesting ideas are the best way to "sticky" suggestions.

Otherwise, what would stop -- for example -- a deranged billionaire paying to take up entire first pages of various subforums with greeter spam?

"I paid for it" is not a synonym for "it's important".

"I paid for it" is synonymous with "it's important to me". Knowing what's important to us is necessary for NS's development to be maximally beneficial. Personally, I kinda enjoyed the trading cards. But it really wouldn't have been a suggestion that I would have donated any money for. Everybody's different though, which is exactly what makes it really difficult to try and guess the total amount of benefit generated by the trading cards. If correctly guessing the demand for things was so easy, then markets wouldn't be so useful.

Regarding deranged billionaires... what's to stop a mob of men's rights activists from voting up some hateful content on Reddit? On Reddit you can sort the content by votes or by date. Here we'd be able to sort the suggestions by donations or by date. Honestly it's not like I can link you to many relevant examples. Here are cat photos sorted by donations. Nothing technically stops Jeff Bezos from donating a million dollars for the worst cat. I doubt that he would though, given that he's busy doing things like buying Whole Foods.

In the thread I linked to in the OP we're using donation to rank political systems. So far $22 has been donated for capracracy and $13 has been donated for pragmatarianism. Pragmatarianism is ranking everything with money while capracracy is rule by goats. So far the devious donors are outspending the one devout donor... me. But in this case it's not like the winning system is going to be implemented. I'm pretty sure that with suggestions the devout donors would outspend the devious ones. There's a chance that I might be wrong.

Something may be "important to you", but that doesn't mean it's actually important in the grand scheme of things. Nor does it mean it's true.

People become fanatically devoted with the most inane causes. Donald Trump believes vaccines cause autism. There's an increasing number of wealthy people who sincerely believe this idea, despite it having being scientifically disproven.

Now, suppose they are allowed to buy up threads on NationStates -- put them at the top of the list of NSG -- "Do vaccines cause autism", "10 reasons why vaccines cause autism", "Why we all know vaccines cause autism" and all this other crap. This would be them spending money to push ideas that are important to them. They would rank highly on Google and on NSG. They would also be using unfair financial advantage to push a completely disproven theory.

Is that right? That the richest people get to say whatever the bloody hell they like, just because they have money?

So, no "important to me" doesn't count as "actually important".

Furthermore, you can be devoutly devoted to a cause -- like, say, actual proven science -- without being wealthy.

Using your cards example. I liked the cards. They were popular. But say they weren't. Say the only proponents were the wealthy players who could afford to politic for them and used their money to push for them* (or any feature, just for an example). Is it right that any feature gets willed on the population simply because the richest population can vote in bulk and outvote everyone else?

Plutocracy is not a good system.

*NB: I liked the cards. That was just an example.

Custom colours for Site Supporters would not only be a headache for new players -- who wouldn't know what special position site supporters held but would assume it had to be something along the lines of admins, mods, mentors, or editors -- but would be annoying to Supporters, too.

Do you have any idea how many queries you'd get from players, asking how you do this, or what that button does, or why this issue is a certain way. IMO, it'd be worse if you repurposed the old IE colour or GenSec colour. Because any CTE players who resurrected would think you were IEs or GenSec (not many people look at the bottom of the forums, seriously).

It'd just be creating unnecessary hassle for a lot of people who just want to enjoy the game.

Personally I was never a new "player". I signed up because I saw that somebody had created a forum thread about pragmatarianism. The role playing aspect of this website never really captured my interest. A while back I ran across a suggestion that made sense to me, but evidently it conflicted with a fundamental aspect of the game.

Anybody know what percentage of the members are in the same boat as me? If we're in the minority, what are the chances that we'd be willing to make the most donations? If we were the biggest donors, then the forum would grow more than the game would. Then again, if the gamers were the biggest donors, then I'd probably be more interested in learning about the game mechanics.

It's funny when you think about it. What I'm interested in is actually doing government rather than simply playing it. Rather than democrats versus republicans we'd have gamers versus forumers. Heh. Except then it would be gamers versus forumers versus bloggers... and then versus vloggers... and then versus ____________. The demand for features would be just as diverse as the members are.

Anyways, when I signed up I really wasn't confused about the username colors. I knew that the red were mods and I had no reason to learn the other colors. But for new players interested in gaming, you'd figure it would be easy not to have a page to explain what the different color usernames were for. You can see a similar page on the deviantart website. It's actually my first time seeing that page. I guessed that it existed and it only took me a few seconds to confirm it.

What difference would it make to easily identify the percentage of NS members that are supporters? If a new member looks down to see who's online and notices that 1 out of 20 members is a supporter... what do they think? What do they think if 15 out of 20 members are supporters? It would change their perception of the community's value. Just like knowing the demand for a suggestion would change our perception of its value. Quantifying value is really helpful for increasing it.

On Got Issues, we can't even get people to turn to first page of the same thread, where their question is already answered. But... sure, they'll turn to a different page and look through a huge system of different colourings... Just for this.

Additionally, some players have trouble distinguishing between the colours we have. Why add more hassle to them?

Thanks for answering a question I never really asked with the "knowing how many NS members are supporters adds value" bit.

But seeing lots of people with paid memberships wouldn't have made me join. In fact, ensuring there were no paid features that I would have to get for maximum enjoyment was part of my research process when looking into the game. So, seeing lots of paid membership would have had me worried that they were hooking me in with free membership and then jacking up the price with "secret" additional perks that you have to pay for.

I'd have run screaming.

[Minoa]

NS is a labor of love more than a cash cow.

This, but also there is a fine line in how many perks NationStates can offer to donors, before it starts resembling one of those bloomin’ “pay to win” games like the 2017 Star Wars Battlefront II.

And oh boy, allowing donations to prioritize suggestions or topics may backfire extremely badly, given that this is a game where some of the most controversial issues in our society (e.g. abortion, asylum/immigration, and firearms control/regulation/rights/whatever) are debated.

[Xerographica]

Is that right? That the richest people get to say whatever the bloody hell they like, just because they have money?

People should have the freedom to use their words and/or wallets to push/promote disproved and/or stupid theories. Like I said, if you weren't interested in seeing the threads sorted by donations, you'd simply sort them by date. I'm perfectly fine with date being the default sort. I'm also perfectly fine with there being a completely different page where the threads are sorted by donations. Nobody would force you to visit this page.

On Got Issues, we can't even get people to turn to first page of the same thread, where their question is already answered. But... sure, they'll turn to a different page and look through a huge system of different colourings... Just for this.

Additionally, some players have trouble distinguishing between the colours we have. Why add more hassle to them?

I personally don't perceive it to be a huge, or even a small, hassle to figure out that a certain color means supporter.

Thanks for answering a question I never really asked with the "knowing how many NS members are supporters adds value" bit.

This isn't a private discussion.

But seeing lots of people with paid memberships wouldn't have made me join. In fact, ensuring there were no paid features that I would have to get for maximum enjoyment was part of my research process when looking into the game. So, seeing lots of paid membership would have had me worried that they were hooking me in with free membership and then jacking up the price with "secret" additional perks that you have to pay for.

I'd have run screaming.

This is an interesting point. I've never personally been in the situation where a website that I'm thinking about joining has lots of supporters.

[Choush]

First of all there shouldnt be any "rich" people because it is obvious that they ll push their agenda politically against the interests of the many

[The Free Joy State]

Is that right? That the richest people get to say whatever the bloody hell they like, just because they have money?

People should have the freedom to use their words and/or wallets to push/promote disproved and/or stupid theories. Like I said, if you weren't interested in seeing the threads sorted by donations, you'd simply sort them by date. I'm perfectly fine with date being the default sort. I'm also perfectly fine with there being a completely different page where the threads are sorted by donations. Nobody would force you to visit this page.

I've already outlined, at length, the extensive problems with allowing people to pay to take up pages pushing stupid theories. It would become a new form of plutocracy, where the richest dictate the agenda for everyone else. And, while everyone should be free to use their free words and their free thoughts, frankly, no-one's wallet should be allowed to overpower other ideas. That is the way to rule by small special interest groups.

This new accommodation of "sorting threads by date" fails to convince me.

Because, if site supporters really wanted this -- and I don't see much evidence for it overall -- would they be content to have their bought and paid-for "ad-space" (if you like) cast-off to the nether-regions of the 19th page, so players can view the more valuable and factual free content? How long before they demanded that the ability to rearrange by date was removed and those paid-for threads stayed stuck to the top whatever you tried?

And what if these (hypothetical) unfactual special interest groups could afford to flood NSG with new content every day, so their content was both the newest and the most funded?

Not that I think there's a serious risk of this proposal being granted. Just another problem to consider.

On Got Issues, we can't even get people to turn to first page of the same thread, where their question is already answered. But... sure, they'll turn to a different page and look through a huge system of different colourings... Just for this.

Additionally, some players have trouble distinguishing between the colours we have. Why add more hassle to them?

I personally don't perceive it to be a huge, or even a small, hassle to figure out that a certain color means supporter.

Some people visually can't see the difference between colours, or shades thereof. It can happen with certain visual impairments.

The site should be as accessible as possible to people with disabilities. This change would be a major hassle to them.

But seeing lots of people with paid memberships wouldn't have made me join. In fact, ensuring there were no paid features that I would have to get for maximum enjoyment was part of my research process when looking into the game. So, seeing lots of paid membership would have had me worried that they were hooking me in with free membership and then jacking up the price with "secret" additional perks that you have to pay for.

I'd have run screaming.

This is an interesting point. I've never personally been in the situation where a website that I'm thinking about joining has lots of supporters.

You've never seen a "free" website that seems to have lots of well-advertised paid features designed to "enhance" the experience (i.e. which it's impossible to fully enjoy the experience without)?

I have. I don't use them. The only sites I have ever paid to use, shopping sites excluded -- and reluctantly -- are scientific journals when I was a student, and for access to the British Psychological Society (again, when I was a student). This was not due to "features" but necessity.

If it starts to resemble a pay-to-win game -- where expenditure of ever more money is necessary for access to the full features needed for play (rather than the nice additional but non-essential perks currently received, such as removing ads) -- rather than feeling part of a more valuable community, players will probably leave.

[Frisbeeteria]

The test for what gets added to the game isn't "what's popular" or "what earns us the most money". That's why we don't allow popularity polls in Technical. [violet] also routinely 'fires' advertisers and networks that post ads that don't fit the defined model for our website. We could have a lot more money coming in if we allowed scammers and quasi-porn games to post ads here. We don't, because the test is ethical rather than monetary.

The true tests are "what can we add that doesn't unbalance the game while providing real value to the greatest number of players", along with "what are we capable of coding in the limited time we can devote to site improvement".

People should have the freedom to use their words and/or wallets to push/promote disproved and/or stupid theories.

They do, just not on this site. We're under no obligation to provide a platform for everyone in the world. You want to push disproved and stupid theories, start your own semi-popular web game and forums. This one belongs to Max Barry, and runs according to what HE likes to see. There's your economic freedom right there.

[Garden at 6th Mile Road]

The one perk we'd really like to provide is for whatever Support level you purchase, applies to all your nations. Unfortunately, that will require a major change to how the site works with players and nations, so don't expect it anytime soon.

Underline mine. Anyway, as much as I would love that (unlimited TG space for my 10+ nations?! Sign me up, please!), I could see that getting totally out of hand. We would probably have those with 100+ puppets having crazily huge TG folders for EACH nation, and sooner or later the server farm will be a lot larger, I'm assuming.

Then again, like you said, we're not in a hurry for that feature, so I guess we will see.

[Frisbeeteria]

crazily huge TG folders for EACH nation, and sooner or later the server farm will be a lot larger, I'm assuming.

I'm not going to go into details, but your assumptions are wrong. Our telegram storage system is actually pretty clever about storage.

[Xerographica]

And what if these (hypothetical) unfactual special interest groups could afford to flood NSG with new content every day, so their content was both the newest and the most funded?

How many dollars a day are you guessing here? $100 dollars? $1000 dollars? $10,000 dollars? Give Max Barry a really good idea how much money he'll be losing by not implementing this suggestion.

Some people visually can't see the difference between colours, or shades thereof. It can happen with certain visual impairments.

The site should be as accessible as possible to people with disabilities. This change would be a major hassle to them.

So 5 different colors isn't a major hassle to them, but 6 would be?

If it starts to resemble a pay-to-win game -- where expenditure of ever more money is necessary for access to the full features needed for play (rather than the nice additional but non-essential perks currently received, such as removing ads) -- rather than feeling part of a more valuable community, players will probably leave.

You have this idea that the people who are most able/willing to donate to this community are also the most interested in harming it. Your idea doesn't make any sense to me. Here's the Huntington Library's 2016 list of restricted donations. Are these donors more interested than non-donors in hurting the Huntington? I see absolutely no evidence for this. Instead, I see plenty of evidence that donors make the Huntington a much more valuable place for everyone.

I can't show you what the Huntington would look like without donations. Just like I can't show you what NationStates would look like with donations. But I think it's pretty straightforward that growth depends on funding. Therefore, from my perspective, it's very beneficial to brainstorm ways to make it more worthwhile for people to donate to NationStates. And it's not like I can force anybody to implement my suggestions.

[The Free Joy State]

And what if these (hypothetical) unfactual special interest groups could afford to flood NSG with new content every day, so their content was both the newest and the most funded?

How many dollars a day are you guessing here? $100 dollars? $1000 dollars? $10,000 dollars? Give Max Barry a really good idea how much money he'll be losing by not implementing this suggestion.

USS Monitor said it best, so I'll just quote her and leave it:

NS is a labor of love more than a cash cow.

Some people visually can't see the difference between colours, or shades thereof. It can happen with certain visual impairments.

The site should be as accessible as possible to people with disabilities. This change would be a major hassle to them.

So 5 different colors isn't a major hassle to them, but 6 would be?

Considering questions have being raised about whether five is already too many, yes.

If it starts to resemble a pay-to-win game -- where expenditure of ever more money is necessary for access to the full features needed for play (rather than the nice additional but non-essential perks currently received, such as removing ads) -- rather than feeling part of a more valuable community, players will probably leave.

You have this idea that the people who are most able/willing to donate to this community are also the most interested in harming it. Your idea doesn't make any sense to me. Here's the Huntington Library's 2016 list of restricted donations. Are these donors more interested than non-donors in hurting the Huntington? I see absolutely no evidence for this. Instead, I see plenty of evidence that donors make the Huntington a much more valuable place for everyone.

I can't show you what the Huntington would look like without donations. Just like I can't show you what NationStates would look like with donations. But I think it's pretty straightforward that growth depends on funding. Therefore, from my perspective, it's very beneficial to brainstorm ways to make it more worthwhile for people to donate to NationStates. And it's not like I can force anybody to implement my suggestions.

You're comparing two incomparable things.

The Huntington is a paid library, with one free day a month for non-members. NS is a free game.

Of course you can't say what the Huntongon library would be like without donations, considering that the only people who generally get in for free are the people who've already paid for a membership, which starts at $159 per annum. Otherwise, you need to apply for reading privileges for the library and pre-print your ticket online for the rest (for the free day, which is the first Thursday a month). It may be designed for profit, and it may be a nice resource, but it's clearly for the benefit -- primarily -- of the people who pay.

Not only is it not a comparable example, but their model doesn't seem remotely compatible with NationStates, a game that aims to provide maximum value to the maximum number of players.

[Xerographica]

Not only is it not a comparable example, but their model doesn't seem remotely compatible with NationStates, a game that aims to provide maximum value to the maximum number of players.

Right now the game provides me with absolutely no value. Let's say that, when I made my purchases from the NS store, I had been given the option to divide my payment between the game and the forum. I would not have allocated any money to the game. I would have allocated it all to the forum.

When I was a member of Huntington I was not given the option to decide how to divide my payment between the library and the gardens. If I had been given this option then I wouldn't have allocated any money to the library. Instead, I would have allocated it all to the garden.

How many other people are in the same boat as me? I have absolutely no idea... and neither do you. You have absolutely no idea how many members of this forum derive absolutely no value from the game.

Right now you're spending your time to provide feedback on my suggestions. Obviously you believe that feedback is important. So do I! The thing is, the entire private sector is largely based on the premise that the most reliable/credible form of feedback is monetary. I personally believe that this is a solid premise. In the past year I've donated $0 dollars to the Huntington and $26 to NationStates. This is meaningful and significant. It obviously means that NationStates is more important to me than the Huntington is. Does it matter what's important to me? Of course. How could it not? Does it matter what's important to you? Of course. How could it not?

[USS Monitor]

And what if these (hypothetical) unfactual special interest groups could afford to flood NSG with new content every day, so their content was both the newest and the most funded?

How many dollars a day are you guessing here? $100 dollars? $1000 dollars? $10,000 dollars? Give Max Barry a really good idea how much money he'll be losing by not implementing this suggestion.

I think you're missing the point here. It's not about how much money is at stake. It's about what will make the site cool and fun.

[Xerographica]

How many dollars a day are you guessing here? $100 dollars? $1000 dollars? $10,000 dollars? Give Max Barry a really good idea how much money he'll be losing by not implementing this suggestion.

I think you're missing the point here. It's not about how much money is at stake. It's about what will make the site cool and fun.

When I visited DeviantArt the other day to look up the page with the username symbol information, it really hit me that it really hasn't changed much over the years. Maybe back in the day it was cool/fun... but now it seems... geriatric/prehistoric. It either belongs in a retirement community or in a natural history museum.

David Brin is a sci-fi author who has blogged for years on Blogspot, which is owned by Google. Is Blogspot cool and fun? The other day I noticed that Brin is also on Medium. Personally I think that Medium is the cooler/funner version of Blogspot.

Before founding Medium, the founders could have pitched their idea to Google... "Hey, here's a suggestion for making Blogspot way cooler/funner..." Would Google have implemented their suggestion? Probably not. All organizations over time suffer from status-quo bias. The leadership never wants to fundamentally change things. Yet, the world around them is constantly changing. A lot changes in a decade, especially on the internet.

Like every organization, NationStates has a cooler/funner version of itself. But, because of the status-quo bias, NS is unlikely to become this version of itself. Instead it's simply going to join the geriatric/prehistoric ranks of DeviantArt, Blogspot and a multitude of other websites. The pattern is clear.

Basically, the status-quo bias prevents an organization from optimally evolving. This bias can be easily eliminated simply by using donations to rank suggestions.

I should probably make the obvious but underappreciated point that I wouldn't be sharing this feedback if you had permanently banned me. DeviantArt, on the other hand, permanently banned me over a decade ago, but you can still see a few of my photos (not all of those are mine). DeviantArt really didn't like me rocking the boat. No organization likes having their boat rocked. This is the status-quo bias. To be clear, it is certainly not the case that every "boat rocking" is beneficial. But it is the case that standing still is slow suicide. Minimizing stagnation and optimizing evolution depends on giving donors the opportunity to rank suggestions.

Standing still is the fastest way of moving backwards in a rapidly changing world. - Lauren Bacall

[Trotterdam]

I don't even know why you're bringing up DeviantArt, but the purpose of that site had never been the site itself. It's a medium for people to share, discuss, and find their own artwork. The more bells and whistles you add to the site itself, the more it distracts from the actual purpose of user-submitted artwork.

Regardless, this has nothing to do with NationStates itself. You sound like you're just advocating change for the sake of change. "This other site hasn't changed lately and I don't like that, hence every site in existence should change." No, it doesn't work that way.

[Reploid Productions]

Okay guys, let's not turn this into another NSG Xero thread please. Stay on topic- that is, the idea is "Supporters should get <thing!>" Thus far, all of the suggestions presented in the OP are either not viable/not going to happen. To buzzkill them in order:

-Custom colors for forum names: Not happening. Technically unviable to implement due to the forum software which would require senior mods to manually create a fuckton of new user groups and sort people into them to get the colors to work. Socially unviable as that negates the entire purpose of special groups having distinct colors like the mods, mentors, editors, and GenSec.

-Supporters-only forum: Unlikely to happen. Each section of the forum has a specific purpose and general trajectory of what is discussed there. "Supporters only clubhouse" does not include such a purpose. Still technically unviable as this would require modification to the game-forum interface to automatically have the game tell the forum to put these users into this usergroup forumside; currently this would require senior moderators to manually create the group and add people to it. In addition, [v] and the boss are both pretty firmly against subdividing the forum further.

-Supporters stay logged in forever: Probably unlikely as a session timing out is a security function. We already have problems with users who have auto-login set on their nations who then access NS from school or some other public device ending up with their nations hijacked. The option of poorer security should not be something people pay for.

-Postmaster General getting a free copy of one of Max's books: Definitely not going to happen. This would no doubt require some sort of financial arrangement involving Max's publishers, and that would likely also require a hike in the pricing of Postmaster General to account for that arrangement.

-Yearly raffle for Postmaster Generals: Not going to happen. Prizes cost money that could be spent on the site operations instead. Prizes require collecting personal information that we don't collect/require to distribute those prizes (mailing addresses for physical prizes, emails/Steam accounts/etc for digital prizes). Something like "custom forum rank" is something that would not cost the site any money to raffle off, however it would still require a system in place to collect the list of active player nations with the appropriate supporter level and draw the winner; techie time better spent on things that benefit all the players.

[Xerographica]

Okay guys, let's not turn this into another NSG Xero thread please. Stay on topic- that is, the idea is "Supporters should get <thing!>" Thus far, all of the suggestions presented in the OP are either not viable/not going to happen. To buzzkill them in order:

-Custom colors for forum names: Not happening. Technically unviable to implement due to the forum software which would require senior mods to manually create a fuckton of new user groups and sort people into them to get the colors to work. Socially unviable as that negates the entire purpose of special groups having distinct colors like the mods, mentors, editors, and GenSec.

What, exactly, is the purpose of special groups having distinct colors?

-Supporters-only forum: Unlikely to happen. Each section of the forum has a specific purpose and general trajectory of what is discussed there. "Supporters only clubhouse" does not include such a purpose. Still technically unviable as this would require modification to the game-forum interface to automatically have the game tell the forum to put these users into this usergroup forumside; currently this would require senior moderators to manually create the group and add people to it. In addition, [v] and the boss are both pretty firmly against subdividing the forum further.

Just out of curiosity... are you imagining that many supporters would want to use such a forum?

-Supporters stay logged in forever: Probably unlikely as a session timing out is a security function. We already have problems with users who have auto-login set on their nations who then access NS from school or some other public device ending up with their nations hijacked. The option of poorer security should not be something people pay for.

I just looked in my user control and didn't see anything about auto-login.

-Postmaster General getting a free copy of one of Max's books: Definitely not going to happen. This would no doubt require some sort of financial arrangement involving Max's publishers, and that would likely also require a hike in the pricing of Postmaster General to account for that arrangement.

What if Barry wrote a short story specifically for this purpose? Please try and estimate what impact this perk would have on purchases of Postmaster General. If you estimate that there wouldn't be any impact, then obviously you don't perceive that this perk has any value.

-Yearly raffle for Postmaster Generals: Not going to happen. Prizes cost money that could be spent on the site operations instead. Prizes require collecting personal information that we don't collect/require to distribute those prizes (mailing addresses for physical prizes, emails/Steam accounts/etc for digital prizes). Something like "custom forum rank" is something that would not cost the site any money to raffle off, however it would still require a system in place to collect the list of active player nations with the appropriate supporter level and draw the winner; techie time better spent on things that benefit all the players.

Let's say that the prize is Jennifer Government. On Amazon a new paperback costs $13.45 while a used one costs around a dollar. Let's say that I won a used copy of this book. Would I be willing to provide my address so that you can mail me the book? Why not let me decide this for myself?

[Reploid Productions]

What, exactly, is the purpose of special groups having distinct colors?

To signal to the average user that "This person has a special role in site operations." Particularly observant average users can then check the bottom of the page to see what specific color goes with what role.

Just out of curiosity... are you imagining that many supporters would want to use such a forum?

What I imagine has nothing to do with it. Either supporters have to manually apply to be added to such a forum (creating more work for the mods), or the techies kludge together another add-on to the already hacked-up forum-game interface to add supporters automatically (creating more work for the techies for very little overall benefit to the site.)

I just looked in my user control and didn't see anything about auto-login.

Settings page, down near the bottom, "Log in automatically".

What if Barry wrote a short story specifically for this purpose? Please try and estimate what impact this perk would have on purchases of Postmaster General. If you estimate that there wouldn't be any impact, then obviously you don't perceive that this perk has any value.

Or Max could spend his limited writing time working on his next book, which is undoubtedly going to earn him more income than anything related to or for Nationstates. People buy postmaster general for its Nationstates related bonuses; it's unlikely that a short story by Max is going to drum up any additional revenue.

Let's say that the prize is Jennifer Government. On Amazon a new paperback costs $13.45 while a used one costs around a dollar. Let's say that I won a used copy of this book. Would I be willing to provide my address so that you can mail me the book? Why not let me decide this for myself?

We do not have the systems in place for collecting/storing such information nor the infrastructure in place to run the raffle or handle distribution of prizes. Techie time is better spent on features of the site that benefit everyone, not just the site supporters. The techies have no interest in spending their time for a raffle when that time can be spent on gameplay improvements, RMB improvements, and so on.

As I noted, the current batch of suggestions simply will not happen, no matter how hard you're trying to argue for them. If you have other ideas, it can't hurt to toss them out for discussion, but the ideas as presented in the OP are simply not viable.

[Xerographica]

What, exactly, is the purpose of special groups having distinct colors?

To signal to the average user that "This person has a special role in site operations." Particularly observant average users can then check the bottom of the page to see what specific color goes with what role.

So you don't perceive that supporters have a special role in site operations? What percentage of members are supporters? If the percentage is small, then clearly there's a problem. If the percentage is large, then obviously they do have a very important role.

Just out of curiosity... are you imagining that many supporters would want to use such a forum?

What I imagine has nothing to do with it. Either supporters have to manually apply to be added to such a forum (creating more work for the mods), or the techies kludge together another add-on to the already hacked-up forum-game interface to add supporters automatically (creating more work for the techies for very little overall benefit to the site.)

Cost/benefit analysis isn't just about the cost. Obviously you haven't even bothered to try and discern the amount of benefit that I, or anybody else, would derive from this perk.

I just looked in my user control and didn't see anything about auto-login.

Settings page, down near the bottom, "Log in automatically".

Thanks but it's already set to log in automatically. Is it normal that I have to log-in after a few hours of inactivity? This is the only forum where I have to do so.

What if Barry wrote a short story specifically for this purpose? Please try and estimate what impact this perk would have on purchases of Postmaster General. If you estimate that there wouldn't be any impact, then obviously you don't perceive that this perk has any value.

Or Max could spend his limited writing time working on his next book, which is undoubtedly going to earn him more income than anything related to or for Nationstates. People buy postmaster general for its Nationstates related bonuses; it's unlikely that a short story by Max is going to drum up any additional revenue.

Again, you aren't even trying to discern the amount of benefit that I, or anybody else, would derive from this perk.

Let's say that the prize is Jennifer Government. On Amazon a new paperback costs $13.45 while a used one costs around a dollar. Let's say that I won a used copy of this book. Would I be willing to provide my address so that you can mail me the book? Why not let me decide this for myself?

We do not have the systems in place for collecting/storing such information nor the infrastructure in place to run the raffle or handle distribution of prizes. Techie time is better spent on features of the site that benefit everyone, not just the site supporters. The techies have no interest in spending their time for a raffle when that time can be spent on gameplay improvements, RMB improvements, and so on.

It really isn't difficult to mail somebody a book. It would only happen once a year. You really wouldn't have to store anybody's address.

As I noted, the current batch of suggestions simply will not happen, no matter how hard you're trying to argue for them. If you have other ideas, it can't hurt to toss them out for discussion, but the ideas as presented in the OP are simply not viable.

If it isn't viable to once a year mail one book to a randomly selected postmaster general, then...

[Phydios]

Xero, it's fine that you're not interested in the game, but the forums do depend on it. You have to go over there to refresh your session so that you stay logged into the forums. For this reason, I always access the forums through the "Forum" link in the gameside sidebar, not by going directly to forum.nationstates.net. I have also noticed that leaving your browser idle for a few hours while on the forums will result in you having to log back in, because your forum session will expire- in this case, just load any gameside page to refresh your session, and then come back.

[USS Monitor]

No organization likes having their boat rocked.

In my case, it's because I am not very seaworthy with all this armor. Iron is heavy.

[Hippie Kiwis]

If I can weigh in here, I think the idea of site supporters getting a special group color or some other fundamentally useless aesthetic feature would increase the prestige associated with being a site supporter. The main perk to contributing at least appears to me to be telegram extensions and such. To me at least, these aren't really bonuses at all, and I'm sure anyone who does not use telegrams often would agree. The custom name color would probably increase the attractiveness of contributing to many people. The complaint brought up that site supporters would be bombarded with questions from new players is, and correct me if I'm wrong, moot as most supporters are veteran players who can help newcomers and relieve the workload placed on moderators. That's just my two cents.

[Jar Wattinree]

No organization likes having their boat rocked.

In my case, it's because I am not very seaworthy with all this armor. Iron is heavy.

And you got sunk by a storm on top of that.

[New Axiom]

I’ve gotta say no. While I do enjoy nationstaes, let’s face it, it’s nothing to spend money on. Yes, it’s neat, it’s by far the most thorough creative outlet I’ve found(but I’m biased, I love writing), but if some substantial features that made the game better were behind a paywall, that’s, well, kinda pushing new players away. Want some new and exciting features, you ask a noob. He says sure, and looks at the prices-five bucks! This text based game isn’t worth that much, he says to himself, so he leaves.

I’ve also gotta disagree that you should get some special perks for donating. Cool, look at you, you spent money! Oh my goodness you must be so special, let’s make you stand out from every other commoner on this site.

And before you scream at me saying I have no right to use this site cause I haven’t paid my way in, that’s not strictly true. I’ve purchased Jennifer Government and Lexicon from a local bookstore. This money supports Max Barry and by extension NS.

And no, I don’t think I should get anything special cause I bought some books I wanted. Other than the books, that is.

[Mallorea and Riva]

If I can weigh in here, I think the idea of site supporters getting a special group color or some other fundamentally useless aesthetic feature would increase the prestige associated with being a site supporter. The main perk to contributing at least appears to me to be telegram extensions and such. To me at least, these aren't really bonuses at all, and I'm sure anyone who does not use telegrams often would agree. The custom name color would probably increase the attractiveness of contributing to many people. The complaint brought up that site supporters would be bombarded with questions from new players is, and correct me if I'm wrong, moot as most supporters are veteran players who can help newcomers and relieve the workload placed on moderators. That's just my two cents.

There's no way custom colors will happen since we'd have to restrict them away from already taken colors anyways. Having players be green makes life easy for anyone. The problem is not moot, if players have a question for an issue editor, GenSec member, etc, then I'd rather they direct the question to someone who serves a role on the site staff (even if they pick the wrong type) than a random player who has a supporter account. It wouldn't relieve the workload placed on moderators.

[Omniabstracta]

The OP seems pretty interested in asking what proportion of forumgoers, like themself, receive nothing from gameside at all, so I just did some back of the envelope maths to get a rough idea:

According to various pages, (about) 5,847,515 nations have ever been created. By comparison, the forum has (currently) 1,140,638 accounts, according to the footer at the bottom. Now, I really don't know for certain how joining the forum works, and when it actually happens, but if it works how I think it does, that means somewhere around eighty percent of nations never looked or look at the forums at all.

Of course, there are lots of confounding factors here; many gameside nations may be puppets, may have gone inactive immediately, or may have just existed only for the Jolt forums, I dunno. However, the same applies to the forumside nations--a decent number are likely adbots alternate, or throwaway accounts. And, its likely that many, if not most, of the users with forum accounts also use gameside. In the end though, it doesn't really matter; it's clear that the vast majority of the site's userbase is rooted in the actual game itself, even if the exact ratios are essentially unknowable.

No intention to step on any toes here, I just found it interesting.