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Options to backup the RMB.

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Klaus Devestatorie
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Options to backup the RMB.

Postby Klaus Devestatorie » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:25 am

A fair point is currently being raised in the WA Security Council right now regarding Westphalia, on the loss of Regional Message Board content if a region is refounded due to a raid. Right now, Westphalia is liable to being refounded with very little notice, which would result in the loss of a little under 31,000 messages on their RMB. Is there any tool out there right now that allows a region's RMB to be backed up, and if not, could NS admins look into an option to download a copy of a region's RMB?
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Arkhall
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Postby Arkhall » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:57 am

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:A fair point is currently being raised in the WA Security Council right now regarding Westphalia, on the loss of Regional Message Board content if a region is refounded due to a raid. Right now, Westphalia is liable to being refounded with very little notice, which would result in the loss of a little under 31,000 messages on their RMB. Is there any tool out there right now that allows a region's RMB to be backed up, and if not, could NS admins look into an option to download a copy of a region's RMB?

I think the wayback machine lets you go back and view snapshots of old RMBs

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[violet]
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Postby [violet] » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:36 am

There's nothing much now, but I'm developing a system that will preserve RMBs after region death. I've taken a snapshot of Westphalia today, so if it does disappear, I can restore it to public view once the new system is running.

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Jar Wattinree
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Postby Jar Wattinree » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:53 am

[violet] wrote:There's nothing much now, but I'm developing a system that will preserve RMBs after region death. I've taken a snapshot of Westphalia today, so if it does disappear, I can restore it to public view once the new system is running.

Not a bad feature.
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Flanderlion
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Postby Flanderlion » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:21 pm

[violet] wrote:There's nothing much now, but I'm developing a system that will preserve RMBs after region death. I've taken a snapshot of Westphalia today, so if it does disappear, I can restore it to public view once the new system is running.

Thanks a ton even it comes out 2 years from now. Also would it be able to take the regional history page?
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Lenlyvit
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Postby Lenlyvit » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:06 pm

[violet] wrote:There's nothing much now, but I'm developing a system that will preserve RMBs after region death. I've taken a snapshot of Westphalia today, so if it does disappear, I can restore it to public view once the new system is running.

Does that mean the RMB will re-appear on the region itself, or in a seperate space designed to be viewable but not written on? And if a separate space, will it have a permanent link to it installed somewhere on the region page? Just curious.
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Frisbeeteria
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Postby Frisbeeteria » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:38 pm

Lenlyvit wrote:Does that mean the RMB will re-appear on the region itself, or in a seperate space designed to be viewable but not written on? And if a separate space, will it have a permanent link to it installed somewhere on the region page?

I would imagine it's yet to be determined. What would you like to see?

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Lockdownn
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Postby Lockdownn » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:48 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Lenlyvit wrote:Does that mean the RMB will re-appear on the region itself, or in a seperate space designed to be viewable but not written on? And if a separate space, will it have a permanent link to it installed somewhere on the region page?

I would imagine it's yet to be determined. What would you like to see?

I'd personally prefer a divider of sorts between old and new RMBs. Something like "Region's RMB (Ancient) <--> Region's RMB (Current)"
If the option is to preserve all possible RMB histories then I would suggest adding a number after the ancient section indicating which old RMB section it is. "Region's RMB (Ancient [1])" for example.
The sections would act as folders where you would click on the section and page through the desired content but would remain hidden behind the section select as default.

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Lenlyvit
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Postby Lenlyvit » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:50 pm

Lockdownn wrote:
Frisbeeteria wrote:I would imagine it's yet to be determined. What would you like to see?

I'd personally prefer a divider of sorts between old and new RMBs. Something like "Region's RMB (Ancient) <--> Region's RMB (Current)"
If the option is to preserve all possible RMB histories then I would suggest adding a number after the ancient section indicating which old RMB section it is. "Region's RMB (Ancient [1])" for example.
The sections would act as folders where you would click on the section and page through the desired content but would remain hidden behind the section select as default.

I actually really, really would like to see something like this if its possible. If not, maybe the techies could explain what they're able to do in terms of this tech wise so we can figure out which way would be an excellent way?
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Frisbeeteria
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Postby Frisbeeteria » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:05 pm

Lockdownn wrote:If the option is to preserve all possible RMB histories

I'm pretty sure that it's could only be "from this point onward". I believe old RMBs from CTE regions have simply been deleted in the past.

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Flanderlion
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Postby Flanderlion » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:26 pm

I personally would kind of prefer where the region CTEd, but once it was refounded (whether a day or a year down the track) it continued on, with a note in the regional history 'region CTEd' then 'region Founded' and the RMB having just a post on it saying 'region CTEd' and then when it was founded a new post 'region founded'.

Personally, I think a region being refounded should just be changing the founder, the region is just paused while it doesn't exist.

But some people believe regions should start completely fresh when refounded, so having a seperate page for each iteration linked to in the regions history page would work.
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Kshrlmnt
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Postby Kshrlmnt » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:42 pm

If it's possible to maintain the history function in a way that notes when a region CTEs and is refounded, I'd say to give the new founder an option of continuing the RMB from where it left off or archiving it, accessible through the history tab. That way it's preserved either way, but there's a choice between continuance and a fresh start. It could be a decent compromise in the R&D game as well as beneficial for uninvolved regions.

There probably would have to be a time limit, though; you can't preserve all dead RMBs forever. The way the game culture currently works, a day might be enough, but I'd be inclined to go for a bit longer to be on the safe side and allow things to be retrieved in a wider variety of situations.
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Raionitu
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Postby Raionitu » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:36 pm

I think giving two options at refounding would be best.
Keep old one is good for a region that went founderless and is doing it for security. Getting rid of it is nice for if you are using a name someone used previously, but have no association, or the previous RMB was full of spam and clutter.

In terms of storage and accessibility, I think best way might be if region does not currently exist or did not keep RMB on refound, the RMB from only the most recent CTE'd iteration be kept as a compressed text file, like the data dumps are, that is accessible from region history or something. Those could be kept for say, 5 years, same as nation name reserve. Then if it is not added to a new iteration of a region, it is deleted.
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Leutria
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Postby Leutria » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:48 pm

Raionitu wrote:I think giving two options at refounding would be best.
Keep old one is good for a region that went founderless and is doing it for security. Getting rid of it is nice for if you are using a name someone used previously, but have no association, or the previous RMB was full of spam and clutter.

Issue with this is shown by the very region promoting this suggestion, Westphalia. If a region emptied and refounded by raiders, chances are they would choose not to keep the old RMB even if they old natives or even the wider community would want access to that history.

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Cormactopia Prime
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Postby Cormactopia Prime » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:31 am

Leutria wrote:
Raionitu wrote:I think giving two options at refounding would be best.
Keep old one is good for a region that went founderless and is doing it for security. Getting rid of it is nice for if you are using a name someone used previously, but have no association, or the previous RMB was full of spam and clutter.

Issue with this is shown by the very region promoting this suggestion, Westphalia. If a region emptied and refounded by raiders, chances are they would choose not to keep the old RMB even if they old natives or even the wider community would want access to that history.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the proposal though, the RMB would still exist, it would just be under the history page instead of just continuing as part of the current RMB. So it's a choice between archiving the RMB or just continuing where it left off before the refound. Either way, it would be accessible.

If I'm misunderstanding, someone please do correct me. If not, I support the choice option.
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Flanderlion
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Postby Flanderlion » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:33 am

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Leutria wrote:Issue with this is shown by the very region promoting this suggestion, Westphalia. If a region emptied and refounded by raiders, chances are they would choose not to keep the old RMB even if they old natives or even the wider community would want access to that history.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the proposal though, the RMB would still exist, it would just be under the history page instead of just continuing as part of the current RMB. So it's a choice between archiving the RMB or just continuing where it left off before the refound. Either way, it would be accessible.

If I'm misunderstanding, someone please do correct me. If not, I support the choice option.

Everyone else supports that, Rai's has either the history page as the voluntary option or just whoever refounds can decide to wipe it all.
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Cormactopia Prime
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Postby Cormactopia Prime » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:39 am

Flanderlion wrote:
Cormactopia Prime wrote:Unless I'm misunderstanding the proposal though, the RMB would still exist, it would just be under the history page instead of just continuing as part of the current RMB. So it's a choice between archiving the RMB or just continuing where it left off before the refound. Either way, it would be accessible.

If I'm misunderstanding, someone please do correct me. If not, I support the choice option.

Everyone else supports that, Rai's has either the history page as the voluntary option or just whoever refounds can decide to wipe it all.

Oh, well I don't support being given the choice to wipe it all. That completely defeats the purpose and raiders would frequently choose that.
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Klaus Devestatorie
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Postby Klaus Devestatorie » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:39 am

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Flanderlion wrote:Everyone else supports that, Rai's has either the history page as the voluntary option or just whoever refounds can decide to wipe it all.

Oh, well I don't support being given the choice to wipe it all. That completely defeats the purpose and raiders would frequently choose that.

This. There's only a handful of regions where it'd even be desirable to have that option, and they don't get refounded too often.
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Raionitu
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Postby Raionitu » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:58 am

Leutria wrote:
Raionitu wrote:I think giving two options at refounding would be best.
Keep old one is good for a region that went founderless and is doing it for security. Getting rid of it is nice for if you are using a name someone used previously, but have no association, or the previous RMB was full of spam and clutter.

Issue with this is shown by the very region promoting this suggestion, Westphalia. If a region emptied and refounded by raiders, chances are they would choose not to keep the old RMB even if they old natives or even the wider community would want access to that history.

You literally ignored the entire second half of my post, which is talking about RMBs not kept on the refounded rmb being saved as a compressed text file, similar to how data dumps from all the way back to 2010 are still accessible. Please don’t selectively quote to make me sound like the bad guy, I had Westphalia in mind when typing that.
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Raionitu
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Postby Raionitu » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:01 am

Flanderlion wrote:
Cormactopia Prime wrote:Unless I'm misunderstanding the proposal though, the RMB would still exist, it would just be under the history page instead of just continuing as part of the current RMB. So it's a choice between archiving the RMB or just continuing where it left off before the refound. Either way, it would be accessible.

If I'm misunderstanding, someone please do correct me. If not, I support the choice option.

Everyone else supports that, Rai's has either the history page as the voluntary option or just whoever refounds can decide to wipe it all.

That is not at all what I said. I said hey can either make it restore the rmb so people can continue as if nothing happened, or store it as a text file. Nowhere in there did I say to completely wipe it. This is part of why raiders don’t post in technical much, y’all keep misinterpreting what we say to make us sound like we want to destroy everything
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Vulturret
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Postby Vulturret » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:09 am

Outside of the whole Westphalia related debate, this seems like a good idea in general.
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[violet]
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Postby [violet] » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:38 pm

Lenlyvit wrote:
[violet] wrote:There's nothing much now, but I'm developing a system that will preserve RMBs after region death. I've taken a snapshot of Westphalia today, so if it does disappear, I can restore it to public view once the new system is running.

Does that mean the RMB will re-appear on the region itself, or in a seperate space designed to be viewable but not written on? And if a separate space, will it have a permanent link to it installed somewhere on the region page? Just curious.

It means that it will be viewable in an archive area of the forum, similar to this.

Flanderlion wrote:Also would it be able to take the regional history page?

No, this is only about RMBs.

Flanderlion wrote:Personally, I think a region being refounded should just be changing the founder, the region is just paused while it doesn't exist.

Yes, I think when people talk about improving refoundings, they really just want a process for appointing a new founder. They don't actually want the region to be destroyed and remade with no history/RMB/etc.

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Lenlyvit
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Postby Lenlyvit » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:40 pm

[violet] wrote:
Lenlyvit wrote:Does that mean the RMB will re-appear on the region itself, or in a seperate space designed to be viewable but not written on? And if a separate space, will it have a permanent link to it installed somewhere on the region page? Just curious.

It means that it will be viewable in an archive area of the forum, similar to this.


Now that, I think is a great idea. Then it can be linked to either in the WFE or on the history page of a region.

Edit: if its possible to link it in a regions history page?
Last edited by Lenlyvit on Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Marilyn Manson Freaks
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Postby Marilyn Manson Freaks » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:46 am

[violet] wrote:There's nothing much now, but I'm developing a system that will preserve RMBs after region death. I've taken a snapshot of Westphalia today, so if it does disappear, I can restore it to public view once the new system is running.


Great idea, Violet!
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