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Beta 005: Black Market

Bug reports, general help, ideas for improvements, and questions about how things are meant to work.

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Koem Kab
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Founded: Dec 09, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Koem Kab » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:29 pm

Nothing on my above post?

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Caelapes
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Caelapes » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:25 pm

Merconitonitopia wrote:
Caelapes wrote:yes lord say it louder for the people in the back

*clears throat - HE WANTS A BLACK MARKET PER CAPITA STAT, LIKE OTHER ECONOMIC STATS

I'm still very hopeful for a black parket per capita stat. I'd like to find a way to see how large or small my black market is without the influence of my large population inflating it above black markets with a larger market share from smaller nations.
    
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Vespertania
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Ex-Nation

Postby Vespertania » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:10 pm

He Qixin wrote:I support.
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The Stalker
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Postby The Stalker » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:39 pm

Really looking forward to this, I've been at the cap for like a year now.
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Ratateague
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Postby Ratateague » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:52 am

Caelapes wrote:
Merconitonitopia wrote:*clears throat - HE WANTS A BLACK MARKET PER CAPITA STAT, LIKE OTHER ECONOMIC STATS

I'm still very hopeful for a black parket per capita stat. I'd like to find a way to see how large or small my black market is without the influence of my large population inflating it above black markets with a larger market share from smaller nations.

As you already know, I've been using such a calculation for quite some time. ;) As well as a black market : white market ratio.
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Trotterdam
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:00 am

It's certainly possible to compute it manually by dividing Black Market by Population, but it would be a lot more convenient if there were a ready-made census for it, and that would also allow easy sorting.

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VoVoDoCo
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Libertarian Police State

Postby VoVoDoCo » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:04 am

[violet] wrote:
Vovodoco wrote:Every single one of these beta's so far have done nothing but hurt my stats.

Violet, whatever I did to you I'm SO SORRY FORGIVE ME. PLEASE CEASE AND DESIST.
lol

Are all my industries going down a result of the rescaling, so in the grand scheme of things not going down at all? Or does this beta actually hurt my industries?

It specifically hurts you due to this part: "(3) Increase the importance of Corruption, Law & Order funding, and Economic Freedom; decrease the importance of Political Freedom."

Sorry Vovodoco. If it's any consolation, it's only a 0.2% hit to Economic Output, and you're looking at a bigger gain than that from Beta 010.

Lol thank you. I was just giving you shit. These betas ARE really helpful. Thanks for all that you do.
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Caelapes
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Caelapes » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:14 pm

Trotterdam wrote:It's certainly possible to compute it manually by dividing Black Market by Population, but it would be a lot more convenient if there were a ready-made census for it, and that would also allow easy sorting.

Right, exactly - the Average Income stats allow for nations to compare their economic output regardless of population size, which can artificially inflate a very old nation's poor economy over a newer nation's very strong economy. It would be great to have such a stat to compare black markets independently of population size. It's currently possible to determine your own black market per capita easily enough, but you can't use that to see where your nation compares to the rest of the world easily.
    
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Tupelope
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Ex-Nation

Postby Tupelope » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:56 pm

any update on this or any other of the betas?

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Tupelope
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Ex-Nation

Postby Tupelope » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:56 pm

Tupelope wrote:any update on this or any other of the betas?

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Land Without Shrimp
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Land Without Shrimp » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:50 am

Tupelope wrote:
Tupelope wrote:any update on this or any other of the betas?

It'll happen when it happens...?? Haha honestly I'm good with none of these betas being implemented, primarily because my stats are going to get hammered(especially the Lifespan one). So I'm ok with this delay. ; )

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American MapleStory
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Ex-Nation

Postby American MapleStory » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:57 pm

Is there any reason why my black market would fall by 66% if it is only 5.7 billion at the moment (0.4%) of GDP and not qualifying as extremely large under the guidelines referenced in the proposal? I mean I read the part where it says that some nations' black markets will fall by large % (>50%) because of a mathematical error but if look at my black market to GDP ratio it's 5.7/1474 (billions) which is just under 0.4%, as it's calculated in the breakdown of economic sectors. So I'm confused by this...
Last edited by American MapleStory on Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Therimenjas
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Ex-Nation

Postby Therimenjas » Sat May 18, 2019 11:51 pm

This would decrease the size of the black market in most of my nations, so I'm quite happy about it.

Shouldn't civil rights also impact the size of the black market? Issue #50 (Whips, Chains, and Leather, Oh My!) increases civil rights if BDSM is supported, and decreases them if it's banned in the name of decency. A BDSM ban would presumably involve cracking down on the trade in BDSM paraphernilia, pushing those items into the black market. Similarly, drug-accepting stances frequently affect civil rights, and I expect drugs would be a major driver of black market activity.

Caelapes wrote:
Merconitonitopia wrote:*clears throat - HE WANTS A BLACK MARKET PER CAPITA STAT, LIKE OTHER ECONOMIC STATS

I'm still very hopeful for a black parket per capita stat. I'd like to find a way to see how large or small my black market is without the influence of my large population inflating it above black markets with a larger market share from smaller nations.

Black market per capita would be much appreciated! Like with Average Disposable Income, the per-person metric is the one that matters, not the overall economic output.
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9003
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Postby 9003 » Sun May 19, 2019 1:09 pm

I fully support and get a nice 2% bump to over all black market due to rounding I'm close ish to the cap but not there yet
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Mostrov
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Ex-Nation

Postby Mostrov » Mon May 27, 2019 2:29 pm

I receive a change in the realm of 90% to my black market, a fair bit larger than what was is claimed, although it is only 0.2% of my economy.

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Ghost Land
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Ghost Land » Mon May 27, 2019 2:31 pm

One of my best categories would almost double, with increases to two other good categories of mine, so I'm personally in support.
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Xoriet
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Postby Xoriet » Tue May 28, 2019 10:11 am

Ouch, that hits my Economic Output hard.
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Jar Wattinree
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Postby Jar Wattinree » Tue May 28, 2019 12:33 pm

Xoriet wrote:Ouch, that hits my Economic Output hard.

Mine doubles.
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The Soviet Union of Dictators
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Founded: Oct 02, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Soviet Union of Dictators » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:00 am

I support this change. While this "informal" economy is not actually approved by my regime, it's nice to see a 20% increase in economic productivity and output. Now if only I could figure out how to tax it...

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:09 am

Therimenjas wrote:Shouldn't civil rights also impact the size of the black market? Issue #50 (Whips, Chains, and Leather, Oh My!) increases civil rights if BDSM is supported, and decreases them if it's banned in the name of decency. A BDSM ban would presumably involve cracking down on the trade in BDSM paraphernilia, pushing those items into the black market. Similarly, drug-accepting stances frequently affect civil rights, and I expect drugs would be a major driver of black market activity.



Those things you mention are broadly considered to be economic freedoms rather than civil rights in most issues, so are already accounted for. In fact, banning specific goods is one of the best ways to increase your black market share.

Drug freedoms don't currently impact though, that's something to consider for a future change.
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VoVoDoCo
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Postby VoVoDoCo » Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:05 pm

Unless I'm reading it wrong, my black market is going to drop by like 94%. What conditions were my nation in that inflated my black market that much?
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Lillorainen
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Capitalizt

Postby Lillorainen » Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:00 pm

VoVoDoCo wrote:Unless I'm reading it wrong, my black market is going to drop by like 94%. What conditions were my nation in that inflated my black market that much?

Hm, since your black market's size relative to your GDP is very small (0.4% as of now), I would say, it's simply your GDP that increased it that much - after all, the black market is measured in the national currency, so unless a nation's black market's size is literally zero, it increases everyday, for the population grows, and so does the GDP (assuming you don't make any issue choices that would significantly decrease your nation's GDP, but with just four issues a day, it's fairly difficult to screw one's economic output to a point, that it never recovers from these choices).
In your particular instance, you have good economic freedom, a reasonable law enforcement spending, and very low corruption. Since these factors are going to have more of an impact on the black market in the future, they will make your black market drop significantly.
Last edited by Lillorainen on Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Outer Sparta
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:53 pm

The black market changes are a good overhaul. Nations at the cap are able to exceed it.
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Bears Armed
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Ex-Nation

Postby Bears Armed » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:00 am

Of course, even with this update, you can still get "silly" results secondarily from increases in Civil Rights: I just made school uniforms (and even clothing at school) optional, and got an increase in 'Black Market' rating -- although, admittedly, only a small one - -because of that!
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Khalite
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Khalite » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:44 am

The new World Census category Betas are funny...

Khalite is ranked 20th in the world for Largest Black Market, at 9,999,999,990,000,000 Standard Monetary Units. Following the recalc of black market numbers in the Beta, Khalite's black market will be 20,363,343,700,000,000.00 Standard Monetary Units. A statistical increase of 104%.

Black marketeers of the world, rejoice!
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