Varying population growth

[Athretvari]

The population idea that you suggest is already redundant, as many players already RP a completely different population number anyway, using Factbooks and the like to show what they perceive their population to be. For RP purposes, most players take the indicated population on the nation page with a pinch of salt, and more often than not will refer to Factbooks to find out what stats to use for population size when engaging with that player. There is already a well-oiled system in place in the form of the Factbooks for RP purposes, so I still don't see your idea of dissociating population from nation age as being useful, and is more likely to break things and piss off players than the chance of benefits from fixing the problem.

So, there are these stats, which most players ignore because the stats dont match what players RP. And because of that the rest of us cant suggest changes? Instead they have to write a whole factbook, which you admit no one takes time to read? SERIOUSLY ASKING, WHY ARE THERE ANY STATS THEN? Please just delete them all and we can put our populations in signatures or factbooks or write them on napkins or something. I dont understand why IF YOU WANT TO you cant set your population lower. IF you DONT want to, then KEEP your population as is. If you dont like someone else changing their population then dont RP with them. Goodness gratious.

[Athretvari]

This is a setting that changes what is currently shown on the home page. If showing a smaller population ‘clutters’ up the home page, so does showing the regular population. Can we please read (carefully), think, and then post?

Just as an aside, being snippy with the mods isn't a good way of bringing them around to your perspective...

I was responding to a totally uninformed and unhelpful post, mod or no.

[The New California Republic]

So, there are these stats, which most players ignore because the stats dont match what players RP. And because of that the rest of us cant suggest changes? Instead they have to write a whole factbook, which you admit no one takes time to read?

I never said that. Please re-read what I wrote, as you have grossly misinterpreted what I said.

SERIOUSLY ASKING, WHY ARE THERE ANY STATS THEN? Please just delete them all and we can put our populations in signatures or factbooks or write them on napkins or something. I dont understand why IF YOU WANT TO you cant set your population lower. IF you DONT want to, then KEEP your population as is. If you dont like someone else changing their population then dont RP with them. Goodness gratious.

Your attitude really isn't helping, stop flying off the handle when people give the slightest bit of criticism. The ALL CAPS doesn't help either, it just comes across as rude...

[Ardrentt]

The population idea that you suggest is already redundant, as many players already RP a completely different population number anyway, using Factbooks and the like to show what they perceive their population to be. For RP purposes, most players take the indicated population on the nation page with a pinch of salt, and more often than not will refer to Factbooks to find out what stats to use for population size when engaging with that player. There is already a well-oiled system in place in the form of the Factbooks for RP purposes, so I still don't see your idea of dissociating population from nation age as being useful, and is more likely to break things and piss off players than the chance of benefits from fixing the problem.

So, there are these stats, which most players ignore because the stats dont match what players RP. And because of that the rest of us cant suggest changes?

No one is saying you can't suggest these changes. The very fact this thread exists is proof.

As for having a discussion on it, presumably the people running the site have a lot of other things going on their plates, which is why if the change suggested seems lacking in utility to most players, they will shoot it down, especially given that it's always existed as a "weird stat" of its own and most people are used to it as a badge of honour of sorts.

[Athretvari]

Sorry, I’ll use bold and underline from now on in an effort to minimize any incorrect interpretations of my rudeness based solely on formatting.

Moving back to subject, a rather intelligent and well-meaning suggestion was made that proposed no more than

1. Keep current Population stat, but change name to reflect what it actually measures, being ‘time active’.
2. Create a setting to allow players to set population displayed on nation’s homepage as a percent (upper limit 100%) of current Population stat.

The negative comments back have been

1. Previously discussed and rejected, and implied there was previous polling indicating an overwhelming disapproval of change, so rejected again. (However, opinions may have changed.)
2. Tradition. (Again, opinions may have changed. And the proposal doesn’t remove the original stat, nor prevents a setting of 100%, so there is no interference in any individual player’s ’tradition’ since the player retains control of the population displayed.)
3. Current Population stat is used to measure a nation’s age. (Except it doesn’t. Again, it measures the amount of time a nation is active. And there is a Founded shard that provides a real and exact time of founding to calculate true “nation age”. If you’re just glancing at a nation’s population once to get a sense of its relative age to your own and then ignoring it forever after, then displaying the current population stat on the homepage is just clutter. This proposal allows players to make it meaningful. Again, the proposal keeps the original stat, so players can go there to compare relative age, and there is a Founded shard for exact measure.)
4. Use signatures or factbooks since other players arent using NS Population as RP population anyway. (This argument really questions why are there any NS stats at all. Some players do use them, and those players, like myself, would like their NS populations to match what they’re RPing. Or at bare minimum, that issues that claim to affect population, actually end up affecting it. And this proposal does not prevent players that want to use signatures and factbooks as places to announce their RP populations from continuing to do that.)

[The New California Republic]

Sorry, I’ll use bold and underline from now on in an effort to minimize any incorrect interpretations of my rudeness based solely on formatting.

Moving back to subject, a rather intelligent and well-meaning suggestion was made that proposed no more than

1. Keep current Population stat, but change name to reflect what it actually measures, being ‘time active’.
2. Create a setting to allow players to set population displayed on nation’s homepage as a percent (upper limit 100%) of current Population stat.

The negative comments back have been

1. Previously discussed and rejected, and implied there was previous polling indicating an overwhelming disapproval of change, so rejected again. (However, opinions may have changed.)
2. Tradition. (Again, opinions may have changed. And the proposal doesn’t remove the original stat, nor prevents a setting of 100%, so there is no interference in any individual player’s ’tradition’ since the player retains control of the population displayed.)
3. Current Population stat is used to measure a nation’s age. (Except it doesn’t. Again, it measures the amount of time a nation is active. And there is a Founded shard that provides a real and exact time of founding to calculate true “nation age”. If you’re just glancing at a nation’s population once to get a sense of its relative age to your own and then ignoring it forever after, then displaying the current population stat on the homepage is just clutter. This proposal allows players to make it meaningful. Again, the proposal keeps the original stat, so players can go there to compare relative age, and there is a Founded shard for exact measure.)
4. Use signatures or factbooks since other players arent using NS Population as RP population anyway. (This argument really questions why are there any NS stats at all. Some players do use them, and those players, like myself, would like their NS populations to match what they’re RPing. Or at bare minimum, that issues that claim to affect population, actually end up affecting it. And this proposal does not prevent players that want to use signatures and factbooks as places to announce their RP populations from continuing to do that.)

Is there any other point to this post other than just to regurgitate what has already been said by the various people on this thread? It doesn't add anything new to the discussion whatsoever. Address the criticisms that people have aimed at your idea, rather than just repeating the criticisms again in a totally distorted form (which you have distorted in your favour, might I add, to disingenuously make the criticisms look weaker than they actually are).

[Athretvari]

[spoiler]Sorry, I’ll use bold and underline from now on in an effort to minimize any incorrect interpretations of my rudeness based solely on formatting.

Moving back to subject, a rather intelligent and well-meaning suggestion was made that proposed no more than

1. Keep current Population stat, but change name to reflect what it actually measures, being ‘time active’.
2. Create a setting to allow players to set population displayed on nation’s homepage as a percent (upper limit 100%) of current Population stat.

The negative comments back have been

1. Previously discussed and rejected, and implied there was previous polling indicating an overwhelming disapproval of change, so rejected again. (However, opinions may have changed.)
2. Tradition. (Again, opinions may have changed. And the proposal doesn’t remove the original stat, nor prevents a setting of 100%, so there is no interference in any individual player’s ’tradition’ since the player retains control of the population displayed.)
3. Current Population stat is used to measure a nation’s age. (Except it doesn’t. Again, it measures the amount of time a nation is active. And there is a Founded shard that provides a real and exact time of founding to calculate true “nation age”. If you’re just glancing at a nation’s population once to get a sense of its relative age to your own and then ignoring it forever after, then displaying the current population stat on the homepage is just clutter. This proposal allows players to make it meaningful. Again, the proposal keeps the original stat, so players can go there to compare relative age, and there is a Founded shard for exact measure.)
4. Use signatures or factbooks since other players arent using NS Population as RP population anyway. (This argument really questions why are there any NS stats at all. Some players do use them, and those players, like myself, would like their NS populations to match what they’re RPing. Or at bare minimum, that issues that claim to affect population, actually end up affecting it. And this proposal does not prevent players that want to use signatures and factbooks as places to announce their RP populations from continuing to do that.)

Is there any other point to this post other than just to regurgitate what has already been said by the various people on this thread? It doesn't add anything new to the discussion whatsoever. Address the criticisms that people have aimed at your idea, rather than just repeating the criticisms again in a totally distorted form (which you have distorted in your favour, might I add, to disingenuously make the criticisms look weaker than they actually are).

[/spoiler]

Yes, it does. Your failure to recognize it is your own. Considering the need of some to deviant the discussion to formatting, I felt it was necessary.

[The New California Republic]

Yes, it does. Your failure to recognize it is your own. Considering the need of some to deviant the discussion to formatting, I felt it was necessary.

Quit the badly-veiled hostility, it really isn't needed. It would be better if you addressed the criticisms, rather than just regurgitating previous arguments or engaging in tit-for-tat sniping.

[Tessen]

Careful, I have been around since 2004 as well, so you can't dismiss my opinion so easily. This nation is my "new" main.

My apologies. No offense intended.

The population idea that you suggest is already redundant, as many players already RP a completely different population number anyway, using Factbooks and the like to show what they perceive their population to be. For RP purposes, most players take the indicated population on the nation page with a pinch of salt, and more often than not will refer to Factbooks to find out what stats to use for population size when engaging with that player.

I am one of these roleplayers. In my multiple regions, our little story corner of NS is completely based upon custom RP population numbers, and it works very well for us. I'm not particularly married to my above-noted idea -- I just thought it was a fair suggestion worth discussing. I see, however, that the powers that be are firmly opposed to the idea (although, I don't necessarily agree with some of that opposition), so I've stepped back. I have no interest in beating a dead horse.

My idea was just an idea. I apologize for the frayed emotions it has caused in this topic.