Beta 002: Religion ignored by Scientific Advancement/Prim

[Yonah]

It seems to me that issues which pit religion against science can and should still affect both stats separately, but this change would allow more varied options including responses to issues that are both religiously and scientifically motivated, which is a good thing. So this seems like an obvious, overdue change, and I don't say this only because my devout, scientifically advanced nation would become more so under the change.

[Barbarossistan]

As a nation that has happily combined high scientific advancement and high religiousness I applaud this change. Let the true advancement show!

It seems also much more reasonable given that in real life being religious does not rule out being scientifically able and being non-religious does not make you scientifically able.

[Merconitonitopia]

As a nation that has happily combined high scientific advancement and high religiousness I applaud this change. Let the true advancement show!

It seems also much more reasonable given that in real life being religious does not rule out being scientifically able and being non-religious does not make you scientifically able.

I have the opposite
Malanasia -- 3% primitiveness, 8% secularism (94% scientific advancement, 93% religiousness)

interesting then that primitiveness will be reduced one third, and scientific advancement increased twentyfold, opposite of what one expect of this change

[Barbarossistan]

maybe your IT industry is relatively strong and thats affecting your advancement in the beta? When comparing changes for just removing religion effect on primitiveness and effect of IT industry and policies religion seems a modest effect compared to the others

[Merconitonitopia]

maybe your IT industry is relatively strong and thats affecting your advancement in the beta? When comparing changes for just removing religion effect on primitiveness and effect of IT industry and policies religion seems a modest effect compared to the others

only 46%, slightl above median. maybe the new calculation is helping us out but one would assume new calculation would destroy my IT.

[Random Characters]

My tl;dr.

You can now have crusades with spaceships.

[Barbarossistanian South Brasilistan]

We always could and did

[Aelyria]

As a slightly different way of looking at this: what if you suddenly found out that your nation's high Secularism stat was negatively affecting, say, Cheerfulness? Would that not be an utterly outrageous state of affairs? Wouldn't there be significant public support for removing that part of the calculation? "Oh but you see," the defenders might say, "scientific studies have shown that the devout are, on average, happier than the secular. It's just how things work!" I know I would be pissed about that--regardless of my nation's religiosity or lack thereof. So what if it's a matter of ironclad, documented scientific fact that happiness and religiosity are positively correlated? Correlation does not imply causation, but this FORCES Secularism to cause reduced Cheerfulness. It's an offensive stereotype, and we should not be forced to pantomime it in the game. Same goes for many other pernicious stereotypes about secular people.

So yeah. It seems pretty clear to me that this has to go. And if there are similar things for Secularism, I want them gone too!

[Holy Oranz]

As a highly religious but also highly scientific and progressive nation I look forward to this change being implemented.

[Koem Kab]

When will this be added?

[[violet]]

Soon!

[Imperio de Jandira]

That will be implemented? Or there is something to be discussed?

[Valentine Z]

A bit late, and not that I'm complaining, but I'm quite surprised at how much my puppet nation Voorzichtigheid has its Scientific Advancement shot up. The thing is, I made that nation very secular, as in, very few religious people.

Or does this affect everyone, with some more than others?

[Trotterdam]

Well, my absolute Scientific Advancement shot up as predicted, but my ranking dropped from around 200th-ish to 465th Oh well, that's still pretty high!

[Koem Kab]

Took 3 whole months, but a couple more of my nations are now in the top 1% and I went from about 450th to 268th!

[Farsview]

Huh... I drop in both?
I become less primitive, AND less advanced? How does that work?

[Merconitonitopia]

54% increase, 20th in the world. rad.

[Absentia]

BOOOOOO.

I don't care about the actual argument, I'm just mad about losing my only first-in-the-world mark and being dropped to 11th as a result of this. Booooo!

I can see why religious people wouldn't want that as a factor, certainly. I just don't like the effect on me.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

BOOOOOO.

I don't care about the actual argument, I'm just mad about losing my only first-in-the-world mark and being dropped to 11th as a result of this. Booooo!

I can see why religious people wouldn't want that as a factor, certainly. I just don't like the effect on me.

I feel bad for you, as you're one of those ancient nations that still actively answers issues, which is the best sort of endorsement of our ongoing work that we can have as editors.

[Pencil Sharpeners 2]

Looks like my puppet Askatopia hasn't fared too well here: down from 3rd to 9th. Looking at the nations that have moved above it, I suspect the biggest reason is my arms manufacturing industry (with religiousness also having an effect), but I'll probably get a better idea of these 'policy' effects in the coming weeks.

[Absentia]

BOOOOOO.

I don't care about the actual argument, I'm just mad about losing my only first-in-the-world mark and being dropped to 11th as a result of this. Booooo!

I can see why religious people wouldn't want that as a factor, certainly. I just don't like the effect on me.

I feel bad for you, as you're one of those ancient nations that still actively answers issues, which is the best sort of endorsement of our ongoing work that we can have as editors.

I appreciate all the work that goes into making Nationstates a fun experience. It's just sad to go from fifty points ahead of the next, to being down by 400. I always try for the most pro-science answers I can, and I've got a large IT industry and high intelligence, so I'm wondering what I need to do to get back up there at this point.

[Pencil Sharpeners 2]

I feel bad for you, as you're one of those ancient nations that still actively answers issues, which is the best sort of endorsement of our ongoing work that we can have as editors.

I appreciate all the work that goes into making Nationstates a fun experience. It's just sad to go from fifty points ahead of the next, to being down by 400. I always try for the most pro-science answers I can, and I've got a large IT industry and high intelligence, so I'm wondering what I need to do to get back up there at this point.

My guess is that it has something to do with defense forces, arms manufacturing, and automobile manufacturing, all of which are nonexistent in your nation, so you might be missing out on some of the science involved in these areas. Looking at the 10 nations above you, 9 have some form of military, 7 have an auto manufacturing sector, and all 10 have an arms manufacturing sector.

[Absentia]

I appreciate all the work that goes into making Nationstates a fun experience. It's just sad to go from fifty points ahead of the next, to being down by 400. I always try for the most pro-science answers I can, and I've got a large IT industry and high intelligence, so I'm wondering what I need to do to get back up there at this point.

My guess is that it has something to do with defense forces, arms manufacturing, and automobile manufacturing, all of which are nonexistent in your nation, so you might be missing out on some of the science involved in these areas. Looking at the 10 nations above you, 9 have some form of military, 7 have an auto manufacturing sector, and all 10 have an arms manufacturing sector.

Well, drat. It'd take a major turnaround to suddenly bring any of those up to any notable levels. I'd think that it should be the higher of mass transit or auto manufacture, depending on what the country's emphasis is - you'd have to advance your technology to make a good mass transit system, after all. But, anyway, thanks for your help!

[Pencil Sharpeners 2]

My guess is that it has something to do with defense forces, arms manufacturing, and automobile manufacturing, all of which are nonexistent in your nation, so you might be missing out on some of the science involved in these areas. Looking at the 10 nations above you, 9 have some form of military, 7 have an auto manufacturing sector, and all 10 have an arms manufacturing sector.

Well, drat. It'd take a major turnaround to suddenly bring any of those up to any notable levels. I'd think that it should be the higher of mass transit or auto manufacture, depending on what the country's emphasis is - you'd have to advance your technology to make a good mass transit system, after all. But, anyway, thanks for your help!

I don't think it's the scales themselves which affect your SA, but rather the issues that arise from having them. Things like having a nuclear arsenal or self-driving cars may cause large increases in your SA, but obviously you can't get the issues to change those if you don't have the relevant stats. This may be a simple case of legalising the necessary stats and then choosing the correct follow up options to boost your SA.

...Or I could be completely wrong. I have no access to the game engine, so everything I say is just speculation really, particularly at this early stage of the stat changes.

[Absentia]

Whoa! I just reinstated cars and guns (both previously banned) and got a 20% jump in scientific advancement, so that was clearly a major factor! Back up to second, at least, so that's a lot better.