NationStates

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:15 pm**

Since I can not submit a proposal to repeal the WA within the WA's organization I have been sent to Technical By Sierra Lyricalia to argue my case for the WA's repealment. Looking back through history it becomes obvious that the WA is a corrupt organization manipulating the strings of other nations to keep themselves in power, this is blatantly clear with the existence of GenSec and their arbitrary ability to deem resolutions as "Legal" or "illegal".

When the United Nations was disbanded after the fiasco that brought Max Barry back into the game solely for the creation of the WA, now it should be noted that the WA was voted on and as such any resolution that has been passed within the WA has the right to be repealed (if it was voted in it can be voted out), but we see that this is not the case. Because of the rampant corruption that has enveloped the WA, and by proxy the entirety of Nationstates, I again (and for the third time) shall post my proposal of repealment so that an honest and real conversation can take place without the corruption of the GenSec (even though corruption bleeds even deeper here in the forums.)

"The Adopted Nations of the World Assembly,

NOTING that the World Assembly has spectacularly failed to successfully create and enforce international law;

BELIEVING that there is a vital and needed role for a global organizational body, but noting that the World Assembly has failed in this aspect;

FURTHER NOTING that the system of Commendments and Condemnations has acted only as a badge of honor to the receiver and in effect caused more inter-regional strife;

FURTHER BELIEVING that the demise of the World Assembly may be fashioned into a grand opportunity for the nations of the world to draw a new destiny;

HEREBY

1. Eradicates the World Assembly, which acted as the successor to the United Nations, with the full transfer of all Delegate ranks into a regional Representative;

2. ARCHIVES all previously passed WA Resolutions for historical purposes, so that citizens of today may forever look back upon these failures in hope of creating a new and better system of global governance;

3. DECLARES the pages of international law to be blank (and to be decided by each region as they see fit);

4. INVITES former members of the World Assembly to begin work on a new system of international governance, which may in time will exceed the grandeur of its predecessors."

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:18 pm**

Karaden wrote:Since I can not submit a proposal to repeal the WA within the WA's organization I have been sent to Technical By Sierra Lyricalia to argue my case for the WA's repealment. Looking back through history it becomes obvious that the WA is a corrupt organization manipulating the strings of other nations to keep themselves in power, this is blatantly clear with the existence of GenSec and their arbitrary ability to deem resolutions as "Legal" or "illegal".

When the United Nations was disbanded after the fiasco that brought Max Barry back into the game solely for the creation of the WA, now it should be noted that the WA was voted on and as such any resolution that has been passed within the WA has the right to be repealed (if it was voted in it can be voted out), but we see that this is not the case. Because of the rampant corruption that has enveloped the WA, and by proxy the entirety of Nationstates, I again (and for the third time) shall post my proposal of repealment so that an honest and real conversation can take place without the corruption of the GenSec (even though corruption bleeds even deeper here in the forums.)

"The Adopted Nations of the World Assembly,

NOTING that the World Assembly has spectacularly failed to successfully create and enforce international law;

BELIEVING that there is a vital and needed role for a global organizational body, but noting that the World Assembly has failed in this aspect;

FURTHER NOTING that the system of Commendments and Condemnations has acted only as a badge of honor to the receiver and in effect caused more inter-regional strife;

FURTHER BELIEVING that the demise of the World Assembly may be fashioned into a grand opportunity for the nations of the world to draw a new destiny;

HEREBY

1. Eradicates the World Assembly, which acted as the successor to the United Nations, with the full transfer of all Delegate ranks into a regional Representative;

2. ARCHIVES all previously passed WA Resolutions for historical purposes, so that citizens of today may forever look back upon these failures in hope of creating a new and better system of global governance;

3. DECLARES the pages of international law to be blank (and to be decided by each region as they see fit);

4. INVITES former members of the World Assembly to begin work on a new system of international governance, which may in time will exceed the grandeur of its predecessors."

Hmm... good idea...
(I'm being sarcastic btw)

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:22 pm**

The World Assembly delegation of Gagium finds this a most interesting proposal, and is currently neutral on the idea of repealing the WA.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:22 pm**

I don't believe the WA should be repeaIed; I believe it should be reformed.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:23 pm**

If you repeal all World Assembly resolutions, people will just scramble to resubmit all the former resolutions that they liked. What would that solve?

Do you actually have a suggestion for how to implement a different international governing body that would resist this "corruption", as you put it?

The World Assembly is what it is. If you don't like the World Assembly, simply don't join it.

You might be interested in this thread, which suggests separating the corrupt functionality of the WA from the corrupt functionality of the R/D game, allowing you to paticipate in one without being stuck with the other.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:33 pm**

Akrutia wrote:I don't believe the WA should be repeaIed; I believe it should be reformed.

Trotterdam wrote:If you repeal all World Assembly resolutions, people will just scramble to resubmit all the former resolutions that they liked. What would that solve?

I agree. The solution isn't to create a power vacuum. If anything, that'll make things worse, allowing the first to jump back in to lay the groundwork. Which, given that it's going to be the same corrupt authors, lobbyists, and so on, is liable to make things worse.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:36 pm**

The WA is a game mechanic, simply repealing the law won't get rid of it.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:39 pm**

If you believe GenSec are corrupt and are using their powers contrary to the rules, file a Getting Help Request. The moderators have access to everything on-site, including telegrams and the GenSec-only subforum. If there is any corruption, the mods will find it.

I can assure you, however, that everything GenSec do is above board. They're some of the best players in the GA, which is how they were given the opportunity to become GenSec members. In fact, I like GenSec a lot more than back when we had the very busy WA mods. GenSec are very open to discussions about the rules and how we as players can modernize them / make them better for regular players.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:40 pm**

Achelion's Idea is good, as someone who saw the WA start (I joined not too long after the start of the WA and the end of the UN) and have watched this fiasco in its entirety, it has been disgusting to behold. The system that exists now is a failure and whole regions don't use the WA (there is also an issue which will remove you from the WA), which proves its ineffectiveness. An International body should exist, but not without a regional body. Regional government is by far more important then international government but that aspect of the game is quite lacking. I like Achelion's if i visited the forum ever and read things I may have seen it, but I have way to much going on fighting my local town government (over my garden. They already took my 100 year old maple tree saying it had emearld ash borers in it [which only affect ash trees], but now they want to rip out my garden, tear up my front yard and put in a trench.) to visit the forums.

I say everyone just start calling Max, buy his books first, read them, then call about the Corrupt WA in Nationstates

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:41 pm**

Karaden wrote:"The Adopted Nations of the World Assembly,

NOTING that the World Assembly has spectacularly failed to successfully create and enforce international law;

How has it failed to create international laws? All it does is create international laws, maybe they might be inefficient and corrupt but they are still laws and have been created.

BELIEVING that there is a vital and needed role for a global organizational body, but noting that the World Assembly has failed in this aspect;

I would like some evidence of this failing somewhere in the text. Also I'm fairly certain it has succeeded in being an inter-governmental organisation because it has passed laws affecting the globe which appears to be its purpose.

FURTHER NOTING that the system of Commendments and Condemnations has acted only as a badge of honor to the receiver and in effect caused more inter-regional strife;

That's the point, commendations are for defenders, condemnations for raiders.

FURTHER BELIEVING that the demise of the World Assembly may be fashioned into a grand opportunity for the nations of the world to draw a new destiny;

How? All this new destiny would do is create a new organisation that will function more or less the same as the old one.

1. Eradicates the World Assembly, which acted as the successor to the United Nations, with the full transfer of all Delegate ranks into a regional Representative;

What is a regional representative? There is literally nothing that gives any context for this.

2. ARCHIVES all previously passed WA Resolutions for historical purposes, so that citizens of today may forever look back upon these failures in hope of creating a new and better system of global governance;

How exactly would this new and better system work?

3. DECLARES the pages of international law to be blank (and to be decided by each region as they see fit);

"Decided by each region as they see fit." In what way would this work, are you suggesting some alternate delegate system or is this going to be laws that differ for each region. Because the former would be virtually identical to the current system, and the latter would be extremely chaotic.

4. INVITES former members of the World Assembly to begin work on a new system of international governance, which may in time will exceed the grandeur of its predecessors."

Hold on, which may exceed the grandeur of its predecessors. It appears you dislike gensec in this new assembly, if this were to somehow be passed, it would be flooded with proposal which are absolute nonsense. You are also disbanding delegates meaning suddenly lots of member nations would lose representation and might quite this new assembly. To finish it off, the commendations or condemnations system appear to be discouraged meaning this new assembly will have no power to influence R/D in the slightest.

To summarise, illegal for game mechanics, RL reference, category violation (there is no category for this), and contradiction of every resolution ever.

This assumes it will also pass which it won't because pretty much every delegate will vote against it.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:41 pm**

I'm curious as to what corruption I have been directly responsible for or guilty of by virtue of my association with the position. I earnestly would like to see the evidence.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:57 pm**

So basically you are plagiarizing GAR #1 in an attempt to do what only the author of that resolution can do. The WA is a game mechanic. If you don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:04 pm**

And also, will nations and regions carry over their SC badges, or is it so long and thanks for all the ~~fish~~ campaign telegram stamps?

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:09 pm**

This is one of the most stupid things I have ever seen on the forums, or really anywhere in a game. Not to be mean, but this is my thoughts on it

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:03 pm**

So, eliminate the WA in favor of regional WAs and a player to be named later? Sounds like a lot of work for no real benefit.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:08 pm**

CAPTAIN BUZZKILL HERE TO RUIN THE DAY!

Karaden wrote: Looking back through history it becomes obvious that the WA is a corrupt organization manipulating the strings of other nations to keep themselves in power, this is blatantly clear with the existence of GenSec and their arbitrary ability to deem resolutions as "Legal" or "illegal".

Corruption? In a lawmaking body of a political game? Why I never-!

As for GenSec, if you think they're abusing their position, the Getting Help page is the place to report it, please include all relevant evidence and keep your report concise. Do keep in mind though that the mods aren't the GA, dazzling us with a fortress of text is liable to harm your case more than anything.

Karaden wrote:When the United Nations was disbanded after the fiasco that brought Max Barry back into the game solely for the creation of the WA,

Wrong. Just because he stays on the down low does not mean Max isn't around. Mods chat with him and [v] almost daily.

Karaden wrote:now it should be noted that the WA was voted on and as such any resolution that has been passed within the WA has the right to be repealed (if it was voted in it can be voted out), but we see that this is not the case. Because of the rampant corruption that has enveloped the WA, and by proxy the entirety of Nationstates, I again (and for the third time) shall post my proposal of repealment so that an honest and real conversation can take place without the corruption of the GenSec (even though corruption bleeds even deeper here in the forums.)

Except any attempt to repeal GAR #1 is a game mechanics violation- the proposal itself was part and parcel of the April Fools no-prank that year, and repealing it is basically trying to make a technical change via the WA, which is prohibited. I'm not seeing any evidence that the World Assembly itself is a problem (I mean, one can certainly comment on the extremely steep learning curve in the WA community and perceived elitism or toxicity toward newcomers, but that's a community matter, not a Technical one.) You have failed to provide any evidence that the WA mechanic is problematic, nor have you offered any solution to it. Simply getting rid of the WA is not going to accomplish anything save for piss off an entire slice of the community. Simply rebranding the WA a second time is not going to accomplish anything that the transition from NSUN to WA didn't already accomplish.

Your entire argument appears to hinge on "But corruption-!"... and that just is not going to fly. Max and [v] both have stated to the general effect of "Hey, it's a political game. Corruption is part and parcel of politics."

tl;dr version: Getting rid of the World Assembly ain't happenin'. Especially absent any sort of plan for a replacement or other solution to the non-existent problem.

CAPTAIN BUZZKILL AWAAAAAAAY!

~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:17 pm**

My purpose in posting this bombastic proposal was not for it to garner any support, but instead to initiate a discussion which trotterdam was able to continue and send me to a good source. As a player for 8 years I remember when Max got the Cease and Desist letter from the UN prompting the move to the WA (I was there man, I saw some stuff).

In an effort to better flesh out my ideas beyond a basic 3 minute rewrite of GA #1, I shall explain. When we look at the world in which we live we see our International body the United Nations operate as an irrevocable "jacket" holding the world together through some agreed upon laws, but when we look deeper into this blotted morass we find Regional governance which operates at a more direct level of administration (such as the EU). While the nations of the EU are subject to the regulations of the UN we find that the EU has its own set of codified laws which every member nation is supposed to follow. Now some will say we have this already with our system of regional delegation, however, I find this system rather lacking forcing the players of the game to "create" regional and inter-regional governance on they're own (the same way we as players created raiding through a manipulation of game mechanics).

While I call for the complete removal of the WA in favor of much more expansive regional and inter-regional mechanics, it doesn't have to be the case. I know as a player being in the WA does nothing for me as a player, and does not actually affect me as a nation, which is why I believe the WA is a failure. The WA's corruption also stems from how Influence is garnered within a region, this ultimately disadvantages nations who have an objection to the practices of the WA (especially when whole regions forgo using the WA). Years ago when the game was smaller, had less mechanics, and when the WA was doing things (specifically in the SC) it was a much better system, however, the game has changed a lot and I feel the WA has not changed with it.

#NStalgia

Posted: **Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:52 pm**

Drasnia wrote:If you believe GenSec are corrupt and are using their powers contrary to the rules, file a Getting Help Request. The moderators have access to everything on-site, including telegrams and the GenSec-only subforum. If there is any corruption, the mods will find it.

Personally I don't think mods should be responsible for keeping GenSec corruption-free. They're involved today because someone had to set it up, and there's no other facility for removing & replacing GenSec members. But ultimately I believe that should be determined by the GA itself.

Posted: **Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:53 pm**

[violet] wrote:
Drasnia wrote:If you believe GenSec are corrupt and are using their powers contrary to the rules, file a Getting Help Request. The moderators have access to everything on-site, including telegrams and the GenSec-only subforum. If there is any corruption, the mods will find it.

Personally I don't think mods should be responsible for keeping GenSec corruption-free. They're involved today because someone had to set it up, and there's no other facility for removing & replacing GenSec members. But ultimately I believe that should be determined by the GA itself.

As in WA members voting for them?

Posted: **Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:55 pm**

[violet] wrote:
Drasnia wrote:If you believe GenSec are corrupt and are using their powers contrary to the rules, file a Getting Help Request. The moderators have access to everything on-site, including telegrams and the GenSec-only subforum. If there is any corruption, the mods will find it.

Personally I don't think mods should be responsible for keeping GenSec corruption-free. They're involved today because someone had to set it up, and there's no other facility for removing & replacing GenSec members. But ultimately I believe that should be determined by the GA itself.

Well, sure, I agree. (Not to mention I don't think GenSec is corrupt) However, the GA can't decide who is and isn't GenSec. They have to petition the moderators/admins to make the change. It's not like switching delegates where the instrument for changing administrations rests in the players' hands.

Obviously, I'm just being pedantic now

Posted: **Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:06 pm**

Karaden wrote:My purpose in posting this bombastic proposal was not for it to garner any support, but instead to initiate a discussion which trotterdam was able to continue and send me to a good source. As a player for 8 years I remember when Max got the Cease and Desist letter from the UN prompting the move to the WA (I was there man, I saw some stuff).

In an effort to better flesh out my ideas beyond a basic 3 minute rewrite of GA #1, I shall explain. When we look at the world in which we live we see our International body the United Nations operate as an irrevocable "jacket" holding the world together through some agreed upon laws, but when we look deeper into this blotted morass we find Regional governance which operates at a more direct level of administration (such as the EU). While the nations of the EU are subject to the regulations of the UN we find that the EU has its own set of codified laws which every member nation is supposed to follow. Now some will say we have this already with our system of regional delegation, however, I find this system rather lacking forcing the players of the game to "create" regional and inter-regional governance on they're own (the same way we as players created raiding through a manipulation of game mechanics).

While I call for the complete removal of the WA in favor of much more expansive regional and inter-regional mechanics, it doesn't have to be the case. I know as a player being in the WA does nothing for me as a player, and does not actually affect me as a nation, which is why I believe the WA is a failure. The WA's corruption also stems from how Influence is garnered within a region, this ultimately disadvantages nations who have an objection to the practices of the WA (especially when whole regions forgo using the WA). Years ago when the game was smaller, had less mechanics, and when the WA was doing things (specifically in the SC) it was a much better system, however, the game has changed a lot and I feel the WA has not changed with it.

#NStalgia

Look if you say it's a failure cause it doesn't do anything for your nation then by all means resign from the WA. Also as other players and even moderators and the GASEC himself stated this resolution is a mechanics violation of the GAR#1 it just won't happen.

Posted: **Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:37 pm**

[violet] wrote:Personally I don't think mods should be responsible for keeping GenSec corruption-free. They're involved today because someone had to set it up, and there's no other facility for removing & replacing GenSec members. But ultimately I believe that should be determined by the GA itself.

Well, if that's the case, why were decisions on who should replace Glen-Rhodes after his resignation conducted via a Secretariat internal poll?

Posted: **Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:58 pm**

Imperium Anglorum wrote:
[violet] wrote:Personally I don't think mods should be responsible for keeping GenSec corruption-free. They're involved today because someone had to set it up, and there's no other facility for removing & replacing GenSec members. But ultimately I believe that should be determined by the GA itself.

Well, if that's the case, why were decisions on who should replace Glen-Rhodes after his resignation conducted via a Secretariat internal poll?

Because that's the process we have now. It wouldn't be simple or easy to move to a different one, like some kind of election-based model, but that's what I'd like to see.

Posted: **Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:46 am**

[violet] wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Well, if that's the case, why were decisions on who should replace Glen-Rhodes after his resignation conducted via a Secretariat internal poll?

Because that's the process we have now. It wouldn't be simple or easy to move to a different one, like some kind of election-based model, but that's what I'd like to see.

FWIW, GenSec really wants to keep moderation involved in the selection and OSRS oversight of GenSec.

Posted: **Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:05 am**

Can I suggest a different angle?

The UN lasted 6 years before the reset button was hit, due to uncontrollable circumstances. The WA has now existed for 9 years. Maybe we should restart just to have something fresh?

NationStates

Repealing the World Assembly

Repealing the World Assembly