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Intraregional C&C's

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Todd McCloud
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Intraregional C&C's

Postby Todd McCloud » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:10 pm

I have an idea. Rather, I suppose I should say I had this idea, as I and several others discussed and refined this idea over discord last week and it took me until now to add some more to it and understand the implications of what such an idea could constitute if thoughtfully placed into effect. At current, we have commendations and condemnations reserved for the total populace of NS. Too often we have seen commendations and condemnations fall under one of two categories: (1) they're too new and we should wait a bit before putting them to vote and (2) outside of their home region, they're not really all that well known. We've also had several threads whereby veterans have suggested a number of names to be commended, but a logjam exists in that most agree a, b, and c should be commended or condemned, but no one seems keen to write it all up. This is the third problem.

So I had an idea that could potentially solve all three problems. The idea is as follows: we allow larger regions (population 100 nations or more at the time of submission, or 30 WA's, for instance) whereby regions can submit C&C's for their region. It goes to vote, but if it passes, it goes into their regional C&C; that is, sort of like how many GCR's have a hall of heroes or a hall of shame. This list will be placed within the same area as the top links of a major region (board, activity, history, admin, rank, and a new category, nations of interest or something of that ilk). All C&C's will be subjected to the same rules under our current rules 1-4, and will be passed by a majority of the WA's in the region, with the delegate's vote being just one vote in the total.

If this vote passes, the C&C is immediately placed in quorum (or perhaps gets a quorum boost of, say, 20-30 nations depending on regional population) and, upon reaching quorum, is subjected to a WA vote in the current style whereby delegates weigh the votes, etc. Under this method, someone could still be C&C'd under the same manner, but it would behoove authors to submit noteworthy nations to obtaining votes through the region first, acting perhaps as a filter. So, the process becomes as such:

Option 1 (unchanged at current):
- Proposal submitted and subject to rules 1-4
- Reaches quorum
- WA votes, delegate-weighted vote is conducted
- Vote passes or fails

Option 2 ("accelerated" route through higher populated regions)
- Proposal submitted and subject to rules 1-4
- Reaches quorum within that region
- Region votes, all WA's receive one vote
- If passes, nation is commended / condemned
- Recently passed C&C is submitted to the WA docket with either instant quorum or a "padded" quorum
- Option 1 continues

This accomplishes a few things:
- Nations that did much work in one region but not on a grander scale obtain recognition
- More proposals (in theory) make it to the floor of the Security Council)
- A more diverse array of proposals to vote on (provided they are all in line with Rules 1-4)
- More activity in the SC
- A new feature is added ("nations of interest" in larger regions), which suddenly makes everyone invest more time in the SC
- C&C's that authors may think would only survive at a regional level obtain greater exposure in the WA and could very well be voted in regardless

Thoughts? I think with a bit more refinement, this could make for a really cool idea.
Last edited by [violet] on Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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United Islamic Commonwealth
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Postby United Islamic Commonwealth » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:56 pm

Would this be a technical thing to be implemented by admin or just something the players would do?
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Todd McCloud
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Postby Todd McCloud » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:29 pm

United Islamic Commonwealth wrote:Would this be a technical thing to be implemented by admin or just something the players would do?

Well, it'd be a technical implementation due to the change of game mechanics outlined above.

Still, I'm assuming that since there are no comments or refinements everyone seems to believe the idea is sufficient enough to run with?
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The Stalker
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Postby The Stalker » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:48 pm

Hmmm well I really like the idea, open up an existing feature a bit. I could totally see the feeders / sinkers, each individually being just as active as the SC is now, not to mention all the UCR communities that could be included. Literally 10 to 50 times the number of resolutions we see currently would be likely.

However this idea's greatest quality is also it's weakness. Having all these proposals need to meet the 1-4 rule standard work create a huge workload for the Mods who already seem understaffed and currently looking for a SC mods to boot. You'd have to create some kind of work around for this.

Or maybe drop the SC standards, instead of being a regional C&C focus, make it more a "Hall of Fame" thing. Regions could set their own standards, and wouldn't be more work for the mods. Such Hall of Fame resolutions content could later be used for the SC still. Just my two cent.
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Todd McCloud
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Postby Todd McCloud » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:10 am

The Stalker wrote:Hmmm well I really like the idea, open up an existing feature a bit. I could totally see the feeders / sinkers, each individually being just as active as the SC is now, not to mention all the UCR communities that could be included. Literally 10 to 50 times the number of resolutions we see currently would be likely.

However this idea's greatest quality is also it's weakness. Having all these proposals need to meet the 1-4 rule standard work create a huge workload for the Mods who already seem understaffed and currently looking for a SC mods to boot. You'd have to create some kind of work around for this.

Or maybe drop the SC standards, instead of being a regional C&C focus, make it more a "Hall of Fame" thing. Regions could set their own standards, and wouldn't be more work for the mods. Such Hall of Fame resolutions content could later be used for the SC still. Just my two cent.

Thanks for the comments - they certainly hold merit and you put to light a problem with this idea.

Realistically, do we need SC mods to scour the proposals? Why not have a few people who seem to get the rules scour the proposals provided each time they boot a resolution they give an explanation so there's traceability / accountability? Like, they have the ability to remove a proposal, but nothing more.
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The Stalker
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Postby The Stalker » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:06 pm

Yea something like that could work, would probably be similar to the Secretariats in the GA. Though the few times I suggested doing something like the Secretariats for the SC, the mods seemed opposed to the idea. :/
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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:37 pm

Seems like a lot of work for a game mechanic that people in most regions won't even be able to participate in, and I'm reluctant to give already large regions even more influence over the WA.

And yes this goes in technical.
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Todd McCloud
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Postby Todd McCloud » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:47 am

Aclion wrote:Seems like a lot of work for a game mechanic that people in most regions won't even be able to participate in, and I'm reluctant to give already large regions even more influence over the WA.

And yes this goes in technical.

Well the idea was to discuss things here first, then if SC regulars thought it was good, bring it up in technical.
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NationHelper
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Postby NationHelper » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:28 pm

I like the idea, even though it takes a lot of work. I know whether people in my region need to be condemned, but, say [nation=Equinox Founder] is proposed to be commended, I wouldn't know anything about him. Although, there are some major flaws:

One problem is corruption. A delegate/founder/officer can force citizens to vote for them. No easy solution.

Another is friendship. I can create a region with my friend and I. My friend votes I get commended, and I get commended. No easy solution.

Another is borders. Region A really wants Nation B to get commended, but Region C doesn't want that. Region C sends puppets, almost like raiding, to go and say NO to him being commended. Solution: Polls for nations with high influence

Another is condemning. A raider region wouldn't want there raider overlord to be condemned. Solution: Maybe no condemning.

I say this needs a lot of work before the creator puts effort into it.

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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:56 pm

NationHelper wrote:I like the idea, even though it takes a lot of work. I know whether people in my region need to be condemned, but, say [nation=Equinox Founder] is proposed to be commended, I wouldn't know anything about him. Although, there are some major flaws:

One problem is corruption. A delegate/founder/officer can force citizens to vote for them. No easy solution.

Another is friendship. I can create a region with my friend and I. My friend votes I get commended, and I get commended. No easy solution.

Another is borders. Region A really wants Nation B to get commended, but Region C doesn't want that. Region C sends puppets, almost like raiding, to go and say NO to him being commended. Solution: Polls for nations with high influence

Another is condemning. A raider region wouldn't want there raider overlord to be condemned. Solution: Maybe no condemning.

I say this needs a lot of work before the creator puts effort into it.

I assume this would be WA only. So the puppet user would be breaking the Wa multi rule.
A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or, perhaps both. - James Madison.

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NationHelper
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Postby NationHelper » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:30 pm

Aclion wrote:
NationHelper wrote:I like the idea, even though it takes a lot of work. I know whether people in my region need to be condemned, but, say [nation=Equinox Founder] is proposed to be commended, I wouldn't know anything about him. Although, there are some major flaws:

One problem is corruption. A delegate/founder/officer can force citizens to vote for them. No easy solution.

Another is friendship. I can create a region with my friend and I. My friend votes I get commended, and I get commended. No easy solution.

Another is borders. Region A really wants Nation B to get commended, but Region C doesn't want that. Region C sends puppets, almost like raiding, to go and say NO to him being commended. Solution: Polls for nations with high influence

Another is condemning. A raider region wouldn't want there raider overlord to be condemned. Solution: Maybe no condemning.

I say this needs a lot of work before the creator puts effort into it.

I assume this would be WA only. So the puppet user would be breaking the Wa multi rule.

Not an assumption, he said each WA gets one vote....

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Todd McCloud
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Postby Todd McCloud » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:31 pm

NationHelper wrote:I like the idea, even though it takes a lot of work. I know whether people in my region need to be condemned, but, say [nation=Equinox Founder] is proposed to be commended, I wouldn't know anything about him. Although, there are some major flaws:

That is likely the case with anyone being condemned or commended - 99% of the WA probably does not know anything about the subject except through the proposal and accompanying thread, should they choose to go that far.

One problem is corruption. A delegate/founder/officer can force citizens to vote for them. No easy solution.

Unlikely. These would occur in the larger regions, and with how gameplay goes, if someone gets wind of it a 'force vote' will not end well.

Another is friendship. I can create a region with my friend and I. My friend votes I get commended, and I get commended. No easy solution.

Except, as stated in the OP, this would be permissible for regions with high WA populations. So, a small region with two WA's couldn't shove a resolution under the table and bring it to an insta-vote.

Another is borders. Region A really wants Nation B to get commended, but Region C doesn't want that. Region C sends puppets, almost like raiding, to go and say NO to him being commended. Solution: Polls for nations with high influence

No puppets. Just WA. Though it wouldn't inherently stop counter-campaigns, there are measures a larger region can perform to foster a more fair vote.

Another is condemning. A raider region wouldn't want there raider overlord to be condemned. Solution: Maybe no condemning.

Mmmn. Spend some more time in the Security Council. You'd probably be surprised with the amount of folks who would like a condemnation.
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"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
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NationHelper
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Postby NationHelper » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:37 pm

Todd McCloud wrote:
NationHelper wrote:I like the idea, even though it takes a lot of work. I know whether people in my region need to be condemned, but, say [nation=Equinox Founder] is proposed to be commended, I wouldn't know anything about him. Although, there are some major flaws:

That is likely the case with anyone being condemned or commended - 99% of the WA probably does not know anything about the subject except through the proposal and accompanying thread, should they choose to go that far.

One problem is corruption. A delegate/founder/officer can force citizens to vote for them. No easy solution.

Unlikely. These would occur in the larger regions, and with how gameplay goes, if someone gets wind of it a 'force vote' will not end well.

Another is friendship. I can create a region with my friend and I. My friend votes I get commended, and I get commended. No easy solution.

Except, as stated in the OP, this would be permissible for regions with high WA populations. So, a small region with two WA's couldn't shove a resolution under the table and bring it to an insta-vote.

Another is borders. Region A really wants Nation B to get commended, but Region C doesn't want that. Region C sends puppets, almost like raiding, to go and say NO to him being commended. Solution: Polls for nations with high influence

No puppets. Just WA. Though it wouldn't inherently stop counter-campaigns, there are measures a larger region can perform to foster a more fair vote.

Another is condemning. A raider region wouldn't want there raider overlord to be condemned. Solution: Maybe no condemning.

Mmmn. Spend some more time in the Security Council. You'd probably be surprised with the amount of folks who would like a condemnation.


Yes, a lot of people would like condemnation, I have seen it. I was putting things in the worst case scenario....

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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:46 am

I've suggested this before, but my preference would be for regional delegates and founders to be allowed to distribute customized region-only trophies (which disappeared when you left said region.) So the trophies would be baked into a region's code as apart of its settings.

These trophies could be commendation-like badges, they could be sanctions, they could be awards and prizes for participation in regional events. Or they could be military rankings. I imagine gameplay regions would come up with all sorts of directions to take with the trophy system. If there was a small influence cost to the trophies it would limit the use of badges for 'trolling' a la invaders.
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NationHelper
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Postby NationHelper » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:44 pm

Unibot III wrote:I've suggested this before, but my preference would be for regional delegates and founders to be allowed to distribute customized region-only trophies (which disappeared when you left said region.) So the trophies would be baked into a region's code as apart of its settings.

These trophies could be commendation-like badges, they could be sanctions, they could be awards and prizes for participation in regional events. Or they could be military rankings. I imagine gameplay regions would come up with all sorts of directions to take with the trophy system. If there was a small influence cost to the trophies it would limit the use of badges for 'trolling' a la invaders.

Can't this be done on offsite forums?

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Abhichandra
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Postby Abhichandra » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:47 am

So this is basically c/c'ing people in your region? I like it :D .

But why limit it to big regions? I think smaller regions should be able to do this too, but if they don't have enough WA members, then allow everyone to vote regardless of WA status.

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NationHelper
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Postby NationHelper » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:46 pm

Abhichandra wrote:So this is basically c/c'ing people in your region? I like it :D .

But why limit it to big regions? I think smaller regions should be able to do this too, but if they don't have enough WA members, then allow everyone to vote regardless of WA status.

I agree. But, there is always puppeting, so thats bad.

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NationHelper
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Postby NationHelper » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:34 am

Also, I have something to add. What if a nation does good to the world but its region doesn't care about it?


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