[violet], can we PLEASE shorten Update?

[Tim-Opolis]

Minor was about 10% faster but Major was a very long one (128 minutes), so I'm reactivating the invasive profiler for the next couple of runs.

Sounds good o>

Thanks for the update, [v].

[Raionitu]

Update would appear to be not running again >_>

[[violet]]

Last Major was 77 minutes, last Minor was 48 minutes. That's around half of the peak a week ago. I'll keep making adjustments.

[EnTgeisTerT]

My goodness, an update of less than 1 hour. Who would've thunk. Feeling a bit bittersweet about this, but nothing like a good change in game mechanics to toughen up the updaters.

[Sygmund]

So last major was 59 minutes and last minor was 39. Can we expect consistency for the next couple updates or will it continue shortening enormously?

[Mallorea and Riva]

Feedback on how short is too short would be helpful for [violet] as she tinkers with this.

[Gibraltarica]

Generally speaking, one hour for major and 40 mins for minor seems to be pretty good. Enough time to get a decent raid in, but short enough that it's not causing sleep deprivation

[Sygmund]

I wouldn't mind major being like an hour and 15 or an hour and 30 again. Minors lasting for an hour wouldn't be bad either.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

It would be nice to see it not go too much shorter. For operations, stability major to major and minor to minor is more useful than any specific length, but for tagging, we're begging to hit a point of what I'd call "too short."

For context, switching between tags and getting ready for the next one takes about 20-50 seconds depending on how good your updaters are. Target spacing about a minute apart is consider pretty darn fast. With GCR's added in, that means that we're quickly approaching the point where the max number of hits possible for a major is decently less than 60, probably more like 50 with actually having to find perfectly spaced target included, and a slower pace is maxing out at 30ish. That's alright as is, and we can up our hit number with tactics that basically boil down to running multiple teams of updaters at once, but I think where we are right now is good in terms of both numbers and time. Minor around an hour and major around an hour 20 is what I'd consider optimal times. I definitely wouldn't want to go much shorter than 40/minor 60/major

[WA Klopstock]

I think an hour for major and forty minutes for minor is ideal. That's plenty of time for updaters to organize themselves and strike out without being rushed. Keeping a concise duration should make it easier for people to show up and stay engaged as well.

[Vincent Drake]

I also enjoy around 40 min for Minor and an hour for Major. Quality of engagement is much higher when there are shorter gaps between things to do and less of a time investment, you can meet up, have some fun, then go back to work or sleep. Longer updates may benefit a handful of hardcore users, but we want to keep update accessible and fun for a broader audience, no?

[Escade]

I also enjoy around 40 min for Minor and an hour for Major. Quality of engagement is much higher when there are shorter gaps between things to do and less of a time investment, you can meet up, have some fun, then go back to work or sleep. Longer updates may benefit a handful of hardcore users, but we want to keep update accessible and fun for a broader audience, no?

Yes and those with attention span issues.

[Raionitu]

I think an hour 20 minutes would be the best for major, allows tighter times to keep things happening, but allows for bigger runs if people want them

[The Blaatschapen]

I also enjoy around 40 min for Minor and an hour for Major. Quality of engagement is much higher when there are shorter gaps between things to do and less of a time investment, you can meet up, have some fun, then go back to work or sleep. Longer updates may benefit a handful of hardcore users, but we want to keep update accessible and fun for a broader audience, no?

Yes and those with attention span issues.

It would be good training for them.

[Sygmund]

I concur with what EWS said. Minor being an hour and major being an hour 20 would:

1. Not be too lengthy
2. Not be too short
3. Give just enough time to get a decent amount of targets in if you're tagging

This way, defenders won't be having to stay up past 2 a.m. EST spotting for a raid on Equestria for example (really late updating founderless region), and raiders and defenders won't spend a full 2 hours tagging and chasing which would ultimately get boring for both parties after a while I'm sure. I think that keeping those times consistent would have pleasant outcomes.

Also, is there any way that we can get some sort of notice before the next update that has a drastic length alteration?

Thanks for everything [v]!

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Based on replies so far....Most raiders want 60/80. Most defenders want 40/60. Maybe we can split the middle here with 50/70? xD

No, but really, that allows wiggle room so shorter updates are closer to 40/60 and longer updater are closer to 60/80...gives some breathing room so everyone stays happy.

Can we compromise there?

[Escade]

Yes and those with attention span issues.

It would be good training for them.

Some restless spirits cannot be trained.

[EnTgeisTerT]

just to clarify, update will be kept a relatively constant time?

(Edit: Did maths wrong)

[Frisbeeteria]

just to clarify, update will be kept a relatively constant time?

Update is inherently variable. More nations = longer update. Creeping code errors = variable timing. It can be fine-tuned to some extent, as [violet] has just demonstrated, but it's wishful thinking to imagine that it won't change.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

just to clarify, update will be kept a relatively constant time?

Update is inherently variable. More nations = longer update. Creeping code errors = variable timing. It can be fine-tuned to some extent, as [violet] has just demonstrated, but it's wishful thinking to imagine that it won't change.

Which is part of why I suggest splitting the middle of the two answers! We'll get both ends!

[Gibraltarica]

just to clarify, update will be kept a relatively constant time?

Update is inherently variable. More nations = longer update. Creeping code errors = variable timing. It can be fine-tuned to some extent, as [violet] has just demonstrated, but it's wishful thinking to imagine that it won't change.

My point when I say relatively is to say that I understand there will be variance. I'm talking about wild update shifts.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Update is inherently variable. More nations = longer update. Creeping code errors = variable timing. It can be fine-tuned to some extent, as [violet] has just demonstrated, but it's wishful thinking to imagine that it won't change.

My point when I say relatively is to say that I understand there will be variance. I'm talking about wild update shifts.

You're probably talking about the frequency of such wild shifts. Wild shifts will almost certainly continue to happen in the future due to stuff breaking or just acting strangely. The frequency of such shifts is something [v] can comment on with more intelligence than I can.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

My point when I say relatively is to say that I understand there will be variance. I'm talking about wild update shifts.

You're probably talking about the frequency of such wild shifts. Wild shifts will almost certainly continue to happen in the future due to stuff breaking or just acting strangely. The frequency of such shifts is something [v] can comment on with more intelligence than I can.

To be exact, he's asking that hopefully major-to-major and minor-to-minor day to day times not be, like, 20 mins different if possible We know to expect a little variance in length, but things like, well, losing an hour over the past few days, make triggering very hard to do precisely because it's to the point of altering each trigger length near a second in some cases. Ideally, it returns to stability or a slow creep now, but it'd be nice to hear confirmation that the adjusted time is *relatively* stable.

Additionally, what I've heard from a few folks is asking for a heads up if [v] intentionally makes another alteration to add/remove length significantly so it doesn't totally throw off plans in the works

[Tim-Opolis]

Additionally, what I've heard from a few folks is asking for a heads up if [v] intentionally makes another alteration to add/remove length significantly so it doesn't totally throw off plans in the works

Absolutely this.

It'd be great to know when we should expect changes to make update go wonky. As for update lengths themselves, I am more than happy with seeing 40/60.

[Guy]

I think the current update length is fine. 40 mins is more than enough time to fit in a lot of missions, let alone 60.

Based on past experience it's likely to start creeping upwards at some point anyway, so I think artificially increasing it is not a good idea.