Istantaneous Issue Choice Effects?

[Noldoria]

Hello all,

Did something change recently with when an issue choice takes effect? It used to be an issue choice took effect at the next update, and until then one could change one's choice. However, in the last couple of weeks it seems things have changed - do issue choices now have an immediate - and more importantly - irreversible effect?

I just accidentally clicked on the wrong option for an issue, and there seems to be no way to go back an correct the mistake - despite that only mere seconds have passed? Or am I missing something?

Questions:

Can I undo the effects of an issue choice if I act within seconds?

If not, can I change how issues are dealt with for my nation - to go back to the old way where the choice takes effect at the next update?

What this this the result of intentional change to the game design? If so, what were the designers thinking? This is a _terrible_ idea!

[Segland]

Due to a recent update on issues and the way rankings are awarded, your choices take effect immediately when you press the button.

If you want the game to require a confirmation from you before it takes effect, go into Settings and check the box in the Issue section that states "Require confirmation before passing legislation".

[Phydios]

...How long have you been gone? The issue system and the World Census got a big update. It was announced a month ago and rolled out two weeks later. There's no way you could have missed this. Even if you were gone, you should have been notified of unread News articles, which would have brought you up to date... Anyway, go to the News page and just start reading.

P.S. You can enable issue confirmation in Settings. This forces you to click an extra button before your choice is finalized, preventing mistakes.

[Noldoria]

Due to a recent update on issues and the way rankings are awarded, your choices take effect immediately when you press the button.

This is a very bad idea - at the very least, people should be able to opt out of this. What was wrong with having until the next update to fix any mistaken choices?

If you want the game to require a confirmation from you before it takes effect, go into Settings and check the box in the Issue section that states "Require confirmation before passing legislation".

Yeah - I found that now. Maybe that should have been enabled by default when this change came online?

In any case, I don't why rushing the results on issue choices like this has been deemed necessary. One does not get new issue any faster. All it does is remove the safety margin for mistakes. I will say it again - I really think this should have been an optional feature.

For example, instead of confirmation and immediate results, just set a flag such that at the next update the legislation is "confirmed" - and the choice is changeable until then.

[Eluvatar]

In any case, I don't why rushing the results on issue choices like this has been deemed necessary. One does not get new issue any faster. All it does is remove the safety margin for mistakes. I will say it again - I really think this should have been an optional feature.

For example, instead of confirmation and immediate results, just set a flag such that at the next update the legislation is "confirmed" - and the choice is changeable until then.

Actually I believe new issues are received faster now.

I'm under the impression that most nations prefer immediate results to results hours from now.

[Noldoria]

...How long have you been gone? The issue system and the World Census got a big update. It was announced a month ago and rolled out two weeks later. There's no way you could have missed this. Even if you were gone, you should have been notified of unread News articles, which would have brought you up to date... Anyway, go to the News page and just start reading.

P.S. You can enable issue confirmation in Settings. This forces you to click an extra button before your choice is finalized, preventing mistakes.

I still don't understand what was broken with a system that had the choice take effect at the next update. On rare occasions I clicked the wrong button, but always had the ability to fix it. Now it seems like we have sacrificed the ability to correct a mistaken click for - what? What has been gained?

The "issue confirmation" in settings is no substitute for being able to look at the page that says 'this is what has been chosen' and then be able to revisit the issue to correct a mistake.

[Noldoria]

In any case, I don't why rushing the results on issue choices like this has been deemed necessary. One does not get new issue any faster. All it does is remove the safety margin for mistakes. I will say it again - I really think this should have been an optional feature.

For example, instead of confirmation and immediate results, just set a flag such that at the next update the legislation is "confirmed" - and the choice is changeable until then.

Actually I believe new issues are received faster now.

I'm under the impression that most nations prefer immediate results to results hours from now.

I hadn't noticed the issues were coming any faster. Anyway, I don't understand any reason for this to be non-optional - unless its just easier to code - but then one had to rip out all the old code that processed choices at the update.

Add me to the list of people that think this is a needlessly annoying change.

[Phydios]

...How long have you been gone? The issue system and the World Census got a big update. It was announced a month ago and rolled out two weeks later. There's no way you could have missed this. Even if you were gone, you should have been notified of unread News articles, which would have brought you up to date... Anyway, go to the News page and just start reading.

P.S. You can enable issue confirmation in Settings. This forces you to click an extra button before your choice is finalized, preventing mistakes.

I still don't understand what was broken with a system that had the choice take effect at the next update. On rare occasions I clicked the wrong button, but always had the ability to fix it. Now it seems like we have sacrificed the ability to correct a mistaken click for - what? What has been gained?

The "issue confirmation" in settings is no substitute for being able to look at the page that says 'this is what has been chosen' and then be able to revisit the issue to correct a mistake.

...I'm confused. Have you actually read up on this change? Have you tried out issue confirmation? Because what you are saying is not matching up with reality. The ability to reverse a mistaken click was never removed. You click an issue option. You then go to a big "CONFIRMATION REQUIRED" screen. Here you can scroll down to the option you chose and click "Confirm" or "Wait, no!". If you chose the second, you go back to the first screen, where it's like your first choice never happened. Not until you click "Confirm" is your choice finalized and processed. Please actually try this out and/or read about it in News before criticizing it.

In any case, I don't why rushing the results on issue choices like this has been deemed necessary. One does not get new issue any faster. All it does is remove the safety margin for mistakes. I will say it again - I really think this should have been an optional feature.

For example, instead of confirmation and immediate results, just set a flag such that at the next update the legislation is "confirmed" - and the choice is changeable until then.

Actually I believe new issues are received faster now.

I'm under the impression that most nations prefer immediate results to results hours from now.

They are. By default, nations receive issues every 6 hours until they have 5 at once. This frequency can be changed to 12, 24, or 48 hours between issues.

[Trotterdam]

Yeah, but receiving issues faster isn't strictly related to receiving instant results, even though they were added in the same update. It would have been entirely possible to implement one without the other.

[Noldoria]

I still don't understand what was broken with a system that had the choice take effect at the next update. On rare occasions I clicked the wrong button, but always had the ability to fix it. Now it seems like we have sacrificed the ability to correct a mistaken click for - what? What has been gained?

The "issue confirmation" in settings is no substitute for being able to look at the page that says 'this is what has been chosen' and then be able to revisit the issue to correct a mistake.

...I'm confused. Have you actually read up on this change? Have you tried out issue confirmation? Because what you are saying is not matching up with reality. The ability to reverse a mistaken click was never removed. You click an issue option. You then go to a big "CONFIRMATION REQUIRED" screen. Here you can scroll down to the option you chose and click "Confirm" or "Wait, no!". If you chose the second, you go back to the first screen, where it's like your first choice never happened. Not until you click "Confirm" is your choice finalized and processed. Please actually try this out and/or read about it in News before criticizing it.

I have, unfortunately, already tried out the 'no changing your choices' mode. I was not aware of the 'confirmation required' option, nor would I have imagined someone would implement a system where that is all that stands between a mis-click and screwed-up nation. Had I known the danger of the current situation and the sole means of mitigation, then yes, I would have employed the means of mitigation.

Never the less, I still can not imagine taking away the time between a issue choice and the next update as an opportunity to fix a mis-click is a desirable feature. Really - I can not begin to see the thought process that would produce that idea. If people really need to see immediate results of their choices, then make the immediate consequences and no fixing an option instead of the way it is now?

So, you know what? I'll just put my country into vacation more - no new issues - as long this "improvement" is non-optional.

[Phydios]

...I'm confused. Have you actually read up on this change? Have you tried out issue confirmation? Because what you are saying is not matching up with reality. The ability to reverse a mistaken click was never removed. You click an issue option. You then go to a big "CONFIRMATION REQUIRED" screen. Here you can scroll down to the option you chose and click "Confirm" or "Wait, no!". If you chose the second, you go back to the first screen, where it's like your first choice never happened. Not until you click "Confirm" is your choice finalized and processed. Please actually try this out and/or read about it in News before criticizing it.

I have, unfortunately, already tried out the 'no changing your choices' mode. I was not aware of the 'confirmation required' option, nor would I have imagined someone would implement a system where that is all that stands between a mis-click and screwed-up nation. Had I known the danger of the current situation and the sole means of mitigation, then yes, I would have employed the means of mitigation.

Never the less, I still can not imagine taking away the time between a issue choice and the next update as an opportunity to fix a mis-click is a desirable feature. Really - I can not begin to see the thought process that would produce that idea. If people really need to see immediate results of their choices, then make the immediate consequences and no fixing an option instead of the way it is now?

So, you know what? I'll just put my country into vacation more - no new issues - as long this "improvement" is non-optional.

Seriously? You're going to rage quit the issue system because you accidentally made a wrong choice and didn't know about the confirmation toggle? As you wish. No one cares if you don't receive issues- it's not as if they make money for the NS staff. But try rethinking this. If you have turned on the confirmation toggle in Settings, you will be able to confirm issue choices for every issue you receive from now on. It is a permanent option unless you choose to turn it off. We get it. You're mad that you accidentally chose the wrong option on an issue. You don't understand why there wouldn't be a confirmation by default. Neither do I. But who cares? You can add one in Settings. You don't have to deal with the instant-processing system. And when you have no issues, the little counter on your issues page tells you how long you have until the next issue. The default is 6 hours between issues, but you can change that in Settings. Again, you can choose not to receive issues if you want, but it would be illogical. You are complaining about a system that does not exist.

Here is a video of me answering an issue under the new system. It is terrible quality, but you should be able to see what the confirmation toggle does. And here is a image showing you where the confirmation toggle is.

[Noldoria]

I have, unfortunately, already tried out the 'no changing your choices' mode. I was not aware of the 'confirmation required' option, nor would I have imagined someone would implement a system where that is all that stands between a mis-click and screwed-up nation. Had I known the danger of the current situation and the sole means of mitigation, then yes, I would have employed the means of mitigation.

Never the less, I still can not imagine taking away the time between a issue choice and the next update as an opportunity to fix a mis-click is a desirable feature. Really - I can not begin to see the thought process that would produce that idea. If people really need to see immediate results of their choices, then make the immediate consequences and no fixing an option instead of the way it is now?

So, you know what? I'll just put my country into vacation more - no new issues - as long this "improvement" is non-optional.

Seriously? You're going to rage quit the issue system because you accidentally made a wrong choice and didn't know about the confirmation toggle? As you wish. No one cares if you don't receive issues- it's not as if they make money for the NS staff. But try rethinking this. If you have turned on the confirmation toggle in Settings, you will be able to confirm issue choices for every issue you receive from now on. It is a permanent option unless you choose to turn it off. We get it. You're mad that you accidentally chose the wrong option on an issue. You don't understand why there wouldn't be a confirmation by default. Neither do I. But who cares? You can add one in Settings. You don't have to deal with the instant-processing system. And when you have no issues, the little counter on your issues page tells you how long you have until the next issue. The default is 6 hours between issues, but you can change that in Settings. Again, you can choose not to receive issues if you want, but it would be illogical. You are complaining about a system that does not exist.

Here is a video of me answering an issue under the new system. It is terrible quality, but you should be able to see what the confirmation toggle does. And here is a image showing you where the confirmation toggle is.

Call my use of vacation mode what you want - I call it a protest.

> "You are complaining about a system that does not exist."

I am complaining that someone made an unfathomable choice in taking away the time between issue choice and update - a time that could be used to re-check choices or correct mistakes. We loose this, and what do we gain in return? Is the instant gratification worth the increased risk of screwing up a nation irreversably? It should just be optional.

[Phydios]

Call my use of vacation mode what you want - I call it a protest.

> "You are complaining about a system that does not exist."

I am complaining that someone made an unfathomable choice in taking away the time between issue choice and update - a time that could be used to re-check choices or correct mistakes. We loose this, and what do we gain in return? Is the instant gratification worth the increased risk of screwing up a nation irreversably? It should just be optional.

IT IS. TURN ON THE CONFIRMATION TOGGLE IN SETTINGS LIKE I HAVE EXPLAINED MULTIPLE TIMES. THAT WILL ALLOW YOU TO RE-CHECK CHOICES AND CORRECT MISTAKES.

I can't understand what you're thinking right now. I have gone over in exhaustive detail how the new issue system works, and especially how you can prevent misclicks. I have referred you to the News articles for information on the update, as well as images and a video to show you what to do. You seem to have heard none of it. I must wonder if you're even reading it. I'm clueless here, so I am leaving this thread and letting some moderator or admin deal with you and this thread as they see fit.

P.S. Nothing you do in your nation is irreversible, with the possible exception of some odd corner cases that I can't think of. It just takes time. For example, you can always eventually get your economy to 100, even if you've spent a decade trashing it. It might take a long time, but it's possible. So every issue choice can eventually reversed. This isn't relevant to the main discussion, but I figured I'd correct (another) misunderstanding.

[Quovar]

2 problems I see.

1. The confirmation is off by default. IMO it should be on.
2. With the old system, you had until next update to detect and correct a mistake. With the new, once you click, it's done. The confirm helps, but it's still instant and you can't change it once it's done.

Personally, I like getting 4 issues a day and the extra information, but I can understand where the OP is coming from.

[Noldoria]

Call my use of vacation mode what you want - I call it a protest.

> "You are complaining about a system that does not exist."

I am complaining that someone made an unfathomable choice in taking away the time between issue choice and update - a time that could be used to re-check choices or correct mistakes. We loose this, and what do we gain in return? Is the instant gratification worth the increased risk of screwing up a nation irreversably? It should just be optional.

IT IS. TURN ON THE CONFIRMATION TOGGLE IN SETTINGS LIKE I HAVE EXPLAINED MULTIPLE TIMES. THAT WILL ALLOW YOU TO RE-CHECK CHOICES AND CORRECT MISTAKES.

I can't understand what you're thinking right now. I have gone over in exhaustive detail how the new issue system works, and especially how you can prevent misclicks. I have referred you to the News articles for information on the update, as well as images and a video to show you what to do. You seem to have heard none of it. I must wonder if you're even reading it. I'm clueless here, so I am leaving this thread and letting some moderator or admin deal with you and this thread as they see fit.

P.S. Nothing you do in your nation is irreversible, with the possible exception of some odd corner cases that I can't think of. It just takes time. For example, you can always eventually get your economy to 100, even if you've spent a decade trashing it. It might take a long time, but it's possible. So every issue choice can eventually reversed. This isn't relevant to the main discussion, but I figured I'd correct (another) misunderstanding.

By "it should just be optional" I mean the instantaneous and non-pre-update-reversibility of issue choices. Turning on confirmation - from its default state of off - does not change this. What should be optional - as I've explained many times - is this whole 'instantaneous and irreversible issue choice effects' BS. The old system was better and there was nothing broken with it.

> "Nothing you do in your nation is irreversible..."

No. With alot of time and effort one could try to ameliorate the negative effects of a mistaken issue choice. This is _not_ the same thing as reversing the effects, and not the same thing as having the time between making a mistake in an issue choice selection and the update to correct the mistake - not in the time and effort required to attempt to implement the fix, nor in the completeness of the fix. You seem to be confusing reversing an issue choice with ameliorating the effects over (a long) time.

> "I can't understand what you're thinking right now."

Allow me to elucidate my thoughts:

1) The old system typically gave plenty of time and opportunity between the issue choice selection and the implementation of that choice in which to discover and fix mistakes.

2) The new system will, at best, give a confirmation screen - which by default is off - and this is not as good as 1.

3) Nothing was broken with old system

4) We have all been forced to trade 1 for 2, which is a downgrade of our level of control of the process. What did we get in return? Instant gratification? Not worth a screwed up nation as far as I'm concerned.

5) Trading 1 for 2 should be optional.

[Eluvatar]

For the record you have gained far greater insight into what exactly is changing when you implement an issue option.

[Trotterdam]

I think it would save a lot of trouble if requiring issue confirmation were the default and disabling it were an optional setting, rather than the other way around.

I was fortunate to have been paying enough attention to the forum and newsposts to know the update was coming exactly when it did and to be forewarned about the new settings, and so was ready to configure issue confirmation right away. If I hadn't been as alert, I'd probably be complaining too.

At the very least, if a long-absent player (that hadn't kept up with the news) comes back, clicks an issue option, and sees the brand-new confirmation page, he'll immediately know that something has changed and (if he's not a total idiot) be able to research how the new system works before deciding what settings work for him and how to adjust his playing behavior, rather than suddenly being told "Surprise! Your issue passed instantly!" without warning.

[British Accia]

I agree that the confirmation should be on by default, but as for having more time, I cannot count a single time under the old system I came back to an issue after I'd answered it, and before it passed. I would select my option, I'd change it if I thought I should, and then I left it until the update.

My only complaint is that confirmation doesn't work on dismissal. You get the screen, with the second click to dismiss, but there is no, "Wait, no" button. You have to click on the issues tab, and go into it again, to reset it.

[Phydios]

I think it would save a lot of trouble if requiring issue confirmation were the default and disabling it were an optional setting, rather than the other way around.

I was fortunate to have been paying enough attention to the forum and newsposts to know the update was coming exactly when it did and to be forewarned about the new settings, and so was ready to configure issue confirmation right away. If I hadn't been as alert, I'd probably be complaining too.

At the very least, if a long-absent player (that hadn't kept up with the news) comes back, clicks an issue option, and sees the brand-new confirmation page, he'll immediately know that something has changed and (if he's not a total idiot) be able to research how the new system works before deciding what settings work for him and how to adjust his playing behavior, rather than suddenly being told "Surprise! Your issue passed instantly!" without warning.

I agree. I'm somewhat puzzled about why the admins thought it should be off by default. It's not as if it matters much, but I do think it odd.

[Trotterdam]

My only complaint is that confirmation doesn't work on dismissal. You get the screen, with the second click to dismiss, but there is no, "Wait, no" button. You have to click on the issues tab, and go into it again, to reset it.

You can use the "back" button on your browser.