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Suggestion: Invitations (passwording fix)

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Kandarin
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Suggestion: Invitations (passwording fix)

Postby Kandarin » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:57 am

In the last few months, regional passwords have been in discussion a great deal. They are controversial because raiders use them often to lock down regions and keep both defenders and the former residents of those regions out. As a result, in the past there's been some call to remove or limit passwords, culminating in the creation of Liberation resolutions. However, any attempt to limit passwording is firmly opposed by non-Gameplay people who believe that passwords are necessary to keep their regions safe, or by raider-defender people who believe that anyone who wants to stay out of their game should set a password for security.

The problem with their argument is that if a region has a function beyond acting as a raider-defender battleground, passwording comes at a price that far outweighs its utility: Passworded regions cannot recruit. New nations don't like complications, and so overwhelmingly ignore recruitment telegrams with "if you're interested, apply for the password" attached. Sending them the password with the recruitment telegram is just as bad of an idea for security reasons. Unless a region has a reliable source of involved, personally collected recruits (Like Haven, or...actually, are there any examples of this in the entire game besides Haven? I've never heard of any.) they have effectively set themselves up for the slow death of their region.

My suggestion is this: When the founder or delegate of a region sends telegrams, they should have a check-box that sends an 'Invitation' with the telegram. The Invitation would apply to the recruited nation for a set period of time (say, one week?) and would allow them to bypass the regional password while it was in effect. If an Invited nation looked at the region, they would see a note by the password note saying that the password is waived for them. This would allow passworded regions to recruit new nations while still keeping the uninvited at bay.

(EDIT: I realize that this is somewhat similar to the previously proposed idea of a whitelist. The idea here is to streamline the process for quick, large-scale use and leave existing password mechanics in place.)
Last edited by Kandarin on Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
I wish I remember who wrote:Games like Nationstates are like a big cardboard box, and there are two kinds of people in the world. The kind who look at the empty void inside the box and ask "Where the hell is it?" and the kind who jump into the box with their friends and make it into a fort, or a spaceship.

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Pythagosaurus
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Postby Pythagosaurus » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:40 pm

Yes, it's something I've been considering for a long time, but it's hard. You have to make controls for who's allowed to send invitations to a region and for people to block invitations, and you have to make sure people don't receive more than one invitation per region, and so on. It would be nice, but it just isn't going to happen before the telegram overhaul, which I'm not really holding my breath over.

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Paradoxany
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Anarchy

Postby Paradoxany » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:26 pm

I don't like this idea.

Belgium was liberated because raiders had to give the password to raiders to get support for their delegate before the liberation passed, which means giving out the password to other raiders (and possibly defender spies). If the raider delegate had been able to send invites to all his back-up instead, Belgium wouldn't have been liberated until after the resolution was repealed, and then he would have been ready for defenders, so who know how long the process would have taken!!

The suggested changes would allow raiders to move in, take the delegacy, password the region, and have reinforcements come and go as they please using invitations. The fact that they CAN'T move nations in and out is the only down side to using a hidden password to destroy a region. (Well that, and it's so hated.) So giving raiders a way around that seems like a bad idea to me.
Last edited by Paradoxany on Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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[violet]
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Postby [violet] » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:43 pm

I vaguely recall Naivetry shooting down this idea when I mentioned it a few months back.

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Ballotonia
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Postby Ballotonia » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:57 pm

Only application in invader-defense I can think of now is for an occupation army to sit behind a password and be able to let friends in without having to disseminate the password (which is a risk... if it leaks another army might get in too and take over the region). But we have the Liberation resolution for that now, don't we?

Thing is, it won't protect natives against invaders, it'll just slow invaders down a bit as they'll have to trickle into the region one by one over time. So, its utility as a feature isn't all that great.

Ballotonia
"Een volk dat voor tirannen zwicht zal meer dan lijf en goed verliezen, dan dooft het licht…" -- H.M. van Randwijk

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Mikertaz Kein
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Postby Mikertaz Kein » Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:10 pm

In many regions delegates don't have the power to do anything but vote anyway, they can't change WFE, banject, or password the region. So it doesn't even matter who is delegate. (Has anyone ever tried to figure out a % of regions with Delegate access turned on?)
viewtopic.php?p=1387855#p1387855


So, with that in mind, does it really matter who the delegate lets in? As long as the founder is the one sending the invites, is there really a problem?

I also understand that there are regions without founders, but if they don't want to be a part of the raider/defender game they should simply create a founder region.

Also, so to save creating another thread, would it be possible to add a 'delete your nation' and 'delete your region' option? If people could delete their own regions, it would save the 'dying period' time, and it would allow other nations to create a nation with that name again.

I know that isn't the best wording, but I can't think of any better way to put it...

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Kandarin
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Postby Kandarin » Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:54 am

Mikertaz Kein wrote:Also, so to save creating another thread, would it be possible to add a 'delete your nation' and 'delete your region' option? If people could delete their own regions, it would save the 'dying period' time, and it would allow other nations to create a nation with that name again.


It's very easy for a Founder to delete their region by ejecting every nation and setting an invisible password to keep them from coming back in. It's a bit more work but the effect is the same.
I wish I remember who wrote:Games like Nationstates are like a big cardboard box, and there are two kinds of people in the world. The kind who look at the empty void inside the box and ask "Where the hell is it?" and the kind who jump into the box with their friends and make it into a fort, or a spaceship.

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Oh my Days
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Ex-Nation

Postby Oh my Days » Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:42 pm

These regions would still be possible to invade if they actively recruited, it would just be a case of fishing for invites. It would very simple, create 25 or so puppets and check back in on them 3 days later to see if you have an invite. Move the invited ones in and repeat until you have enough puppets to beat the delegate's endorsement total before handing them out to all your cronies and making them WA to take the delegacy. So yes, I think that this would add a whole new dynamic to the game and would be an excellent idea.
Citizen of The East Pacific and Osiris


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