NationStates

Alright, I need some clarification. Perhaps [violet] or another knowledgeable game mod can help me out. My region attempts to follow as realistic an approach to national economies as possible (i.e. financials that are at least somewhat close to real life numbers, rather than derived from the billion-populations of the NS population scale). Now that we have NS economy stats here on-site, we'd like to use those (rather than our previous third-party calculator policy), the question is, though.... how do those stats work (not calculations, persay, just the realism in those numbers)?

I've read this refactor thread quite closely, and I recall [violet] noting that total GDP is based off of NS nation Analysis stats and the number of issues answered, not population (since the listed NS population stats are highly unrealistic). Yet, some math done against those numbers suggests a population connection. So, to settle the debate, does total GDP, as it stands right now, have anything to do with the listed national NS populations?

I also read [violet]'s commentary that NS does not use a GDP Per Capita metric. Yet math would seem to suggest this metric is indeed in use. This would, then, contradict [violet]'s official statements on the matter.

And finally, is it possible to have someone offer a little insight into the average income numbers listed on each nation's economy pie chart page? I understand the basics as previously discussed in this thread, my question is, how might I describe the realism of their determination to the nation-players within my region?

I appreciate any responses on this data. I'd like to see how well it can relate within our quasi-realistic regional roleplay.

Tessen wrote:I also read [violet]'s commentary that NS does not use a GDP Per Capita metric. Yet math would seem to suggest this metric is indeed in use. This would, then, contradict [violet]'s official statements on the matter.

I think you're referring to some discussion during the refactor preview. Things changed based on this discussion, and we wound up with a GDP metric that does rise based on population, as well as a GDP per capita metric.

Tessen wrote:And finally, is it possible to have someone offer a little insight into the average income numbers listed on each nation's economy pie chart page? I understand the basics as previously discussed in this thread, my question is, how might I describe the realism of their determination to the nation-players within my region?

Well, they're more realistic than they used to be, because they are now internally consistent. That is, you can figure out a nation's GDP and population and average income and size of the insurance industry and its share of GDP and all these numbers will agree with one another. That's not quite something we had before. Beyond that, though, it's hard to say, because it depends what you're comparing it to. There are many nations in NS world that are a lot bigger in terms of population and GDP than any existing real-life country. They grow and change at a far more rapid rate. We do strive for internal consistency, though.

[violet] wrote:

Christian Democrats wrote:Apparently, running your economy according to the principles of anarchism screws up the calculations.



There are also incongruities on the national description (main page), which are amusing to read.

Wow! That is a heck of a nation. I wish I had seen this earlier; it's a great outlier test case.

At some point, I would like to see my nation of workers' co-ops have a detectable economy.

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=christian_anarchists/detail=economy

There's no rush. It's just odd that I have no economic chart whatsoever.

Christian Democrats wrote:

[violet] wrote:Wow! That is a heck of a nation. I wish I had seen this earlier; it's a great outlier test case.

At some point, I would like to see my nation of workers' co-ops have a detectable economy.

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=christian_anarchists/detail=economy

There's no rush. It's just odd that I have no economic chart whatsoever.

Your people have virtually no income, even the richest only earn 23! Seems something is eating all that money up.

Jute wrote:

Christian Democrats wrote:At some point, I would like to see my nation of workers' co-ops have a detectable economy.

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=christian_anarchists/detail=economy

There's no rush. It's just odd that I have no economic chart whatsoever.

Your people have virtually no income, even the richest only earn 23! Seems something is eating all that money up.

I'm more surprised by the fact that he still has a 100 economy despite that.

Jute wrote:

Christian Democrats wrote:At some point, I would like to see my nation of workers' co-ops have a detectable economy.

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=christian_anarchists/detail=economy

There's no rush. It's just odd that I have no economic chart whatsoever.

Your people have virtually no income, even the richest only earn 23!

The people of Christian Anarchists reject currency as a tool of statism. Ideally, everybody would have an income of 0.

Kaboomlandia wrote:I'm more surprised by the fact that he still has a 100 economy despite that.

Of course, the economy of Christian Anarchists is unregulated. The cooperatives are quite efficient.

Christian Democrats wrote:At some point, I would like to see my nation of workers' co-ops have a detectable economy.

Ah yes! Should be a little better now.

[violet] wrote:

Christian Democrats wrote:At some point, I would like to see my nation of workers' co-ops have a detectable economy.

Ah yes! Should be a little better now.

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EDIT: "The frighteningly efficient but disorganized Christian Anarchist economy, worth 33.2 billion berrigans a year, defies classification, with the entire state effectively one black market."

Apologies if I've broken a necroposting rule, but replying here seemed appropriate given the beef I raised below, all that time ago.

[violet] wrote:

Errinundera wrote:I spent much time and effort creating a left-wing utopia with 0% income tax in Errinundera. This is about to be changed - our income tax will increase to 95%. I take it that it now means that if I manage to reduce our income tax to 0% again after the change there will be no government departments at all, providing no services. Or, Errinundera won't be able to maintain its cherished left-wing utopian ideals.

You know, one of the things I liked about NS was the ability to have an insane nation.

Don't worry, there's not much danger of NS becoming a rigorously practical simulator. We will always support multiple perceived realities. But we aim to do that while making some kind of sense.

It is certainly still possible to run large governments with 0% income tax. One way is to run your government like a business, seeking out profit opportunities while cutting taxes. To be a left-wing Utopia with 0% income tax, though, will indeed be challenging, since you've outlawed private enterprise and run quite a lot of public services in an Imploded economy while opposing almost all industrial development. There are lots of great things you can do in a nation like that, but I have trouble seeing how running 0% income tax rates can be one of them. If you have some ideas, though, I'm interested to hear them, because NationStates doesn't want to force you into any single world-view, but rather let you choose between many different ideological frameworks. As long as the framework involves tradeoffs of some kind, we're happy.

It has now been just over one year and ten months, but I've finally, ten hours ago, got Errinundera back to a Left-wing Utopia with 0% income tax. Woohoo! It took a lot of dedication; addressing four issues per day since it became possible; and numerous mis-choices. There's no government, no private industry, 82.6 % state-owned industry, and 17.4% black market, all of which I'm comfortable with. I've also managed to keep Errinundera in the top 1% in NationStates for Youth Rebelliousness, Weather, Environmental Beauty, Compassion, Niceness, Lifespan, Cheerfulness, Integrity, Secularism, Population, Tourism, Intelligence and Scientific Advancement. I wish Crime and Weaponisation weren't also in the top 1% but I accept them as unavoidable in such a libertarian nation (economic freedoms excepted). My spin is that, in a nation that eschews notions of ownership, theft seems rampant to the ideologically bound survey teams from the WA, and that all citizens have pitchforks and cricket bats handy to keep misbehaving profiteers in their place (guns are banned). Come to think of it, the black market is criminal activity and probably entails its practitioners being armed. I do wish I could get Political Freedom up from the top 2% into the top 1%. I'm scratching my head over that one.

My feelings at achieving this milestone: and