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Refactoring (was: Refactor preview)

Bug reports, general help, ideas for improvements, and questions about how things are meant to work.

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Laevendell
Envoy
 
Posts: 220
Founded: Jan 29, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Laevendell » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:37 am

Kelinfort wrote:
[violet] wrote:What a lovely nation! Tell us your secrets.

Originally I had a 28% income tax before refactoring. That shrunk to 4.2% as of now. I basically lost my whole army (too small to save defence), welfare and healthcare shrunk, education grew to 47% of my budget, and my government shrunk to 11.3% of GDP.

Yet my crime is still (relatively) low, my health is 25, my inequality is oddly low, and I'm off the charts on gilded widgets (business subsidies). I find it odd so much has changed positive.

A little background: my nation was initially created as a dictatorship. Then, it became democratic, but because I repealed policies, my crime skyrocketed to high. So I increased the law and order budget. I would think that now it has declined by half, my crime would probably by moderate.

It just seems too go to be true. :p

Actually, your nation's health is at 7 now, lifespan at 25, intelligence at 25, niceness at 26 and public healthcare at 6 (as you indicated, that's quite low). Safety and safety from crime are very low (below or at average) and welfare is low.
I wouldn't say your business subsidies are off the charts, as they are at 20 (mine are at 217). The reason it's a large part of your government pie chart is probably because your tiny public spending is concentrated to just a few areas, including business subsidies.
Considering these factors, your income equality of 144 is great though! :)

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Northwest Slobovia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12548
Founded: Sep 16, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Northwest Slobovia » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:39 am

Kelinfort wrote:
[violet] wrote:What a lovely nation! Tell us your secrets.

Originally I had a 28% income tax before refactoring. That shrunk to 4.2% as of now. I basically lost my whole army (too small to save defence), welfare and healthcare shrunk, education grew to 47% of my budget, and my government shrunk to 11.3% of GDP.

Yet my crime is still (relatively) low, my health is 25, my inequality is oddly low, and I'm off the charts on gilded widgets (business subsidies). I find it odd so much has changed positive.

A little background: my nation was initially created as a dictatorship. Then, it became democratic, but because I repealed policies, my crime skyrocketed to high. So I increased the law and order budget. I would think that now it has declined by half, my crime would probably by moderate.

It just seems too go to be true. :p

It is. I assume [v] is going to grab the aforementioned server logs and glass of wine, figure out how you got away it, and then have stern words with the issues team to make sure that it's not possible again. :p
Gollum died for your sins.
Power is an equal-opportunity corrupter.

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Bears Armed
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21479
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:16 am

[violet] wrote:It's difficult to answer this question definitively without sitting down with a glass of wine and several years' worth of server logs, but I would guess that yes, you really have favored government spending on business that much, relative to other areas. Bear in mind (ahahahaha) that your government is less than 1% of your economy, so its spending is a mere drop in the bucket. It's that tiny government and huge private sector that makes me think you've answered a lot of pro-industry issues, and the effects of these have leaked into your government.

Hr'rmm.
Well, if you say so.
But if I did choose some [explicitly] pro-subsidy options then that must have been relatively early on, to help balance the effects of pro-environmental policies, because I'm fairly certain that I haven't done so lately... and one thing that I definitely have been choosing to spend money on in recent years is Culture, which has vanished from the chart altogether...
:blink:
Are you willing to tell us whether pro-culture options generally involve significantly less expenditure than industrial subsidy options?
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474, 1521.

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The Dark Star Republic
Senator
 
Posts: 4339
Founded: Oct 19, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Dark Star Republic » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:53 am

Bears Armed wrote:and one thing that I definitely have been choosing to spend money on in recent years is Culture, which has vanished from the chart altogether...

Was "Culture" actually a pie chart segment on government spending? I've not seen that before.

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Bears Armed
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21479
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:45 am

The Dark Star Republic wrote:
Bears Armed wrote:and one thing that I definitely have been choosing to spend money on in recent years is Culture, which has vanished from the chart altogether...

Was "Culture" actually a pie chart segment on government spending? I've not seen that before.

*<checks>*
Oops!
You're right, apparently my memory failed me on that point and it wasn't a segment after all...
... but we were definitely spending money on orchestras and poets and so on, in response to issues, so presumably that spending should have shown up somehow.
Hr'rmm, could all of it have been placed under 'Education' (which admittedly is still in the chart), instead?
Last edited by Bears Armed on Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474, 1521.

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The Dark Star Republic
Senator
 
Posts: 4339
Founded: Oct 19, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Dark Star Republic » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:53 am

Bears Armed wrote:
The Dark Star Republic wrote:Was "Culture" actually a pie chart segment on government spending? I've not seen that before.

*<checks>*
Oops!
You're right, apparently my memory failed me on that point and it wasn't a segment after all...
... but we were definitely spending money on orchestras and poets and so on, in response to issues, so presumably that spending should have shown up somehow.
Hr'rmm, could all of it have been placed under 'Education' (which admittedly is still in the chart), instead?

I've always been curious about where Culture spending goes (given the WA has a different Cultural Heritage category) but I do assume that, yeah, it mostly goes to Education.
Last edited by The Dark Star Republic on Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BLACKGRUE
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 394
Founded: Dec 21, 2004
Democratic Socialists

Postby BLACKGRUE » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:17 am

Just a quick note/suggestion from me. I have been trying to run a "Re-investment heavy" socialist nation. The problem is the issues that allow me to re-invest in my economy consider such investments corperate welfare.

This means that despite my 100% tax rate (which should make private industry impossible) private industry still makes up 48% of my economy.
Wanna open an embassy? Maybe a consulate?
News and announcements from the Ministry of Almost Certainly True Information.
A Class 0.5 Civilization according to this index.
I am Future-Tech with a Steampunk theme.

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Malessere
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 4
Founded: Nov 07, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Malessere » Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:10 am

I have a problem my nation Malessere and my nation Arzenejev are in the top 10% for the world for Largest Public Sector (Arzenejev is in the top 10% and malessere is in the top 5%) but in the two nations the tax is "unheard of" if this is correct, ok i don't say nothing, but i think is very strange.

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Montagna
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 9
Founded: Aug 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Montagna » Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:20 pm

Out of interest, do all nations currencies have the same value for the purposes of measuring the GDP and what have you (I can't find anything to suggest otherwise), and if so, what is the value of these currencies in comparison to say the euro or US Dollar?

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Northwest Slobovia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12548
Founded: Sep 16, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Northwest Slobovia » Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:27 pm

Montagna wrote:Out of interest, do all nations currencies have the same value for the purposes of measuring the GDP and what have you (I can't find anything to suggest otherwise), and if so, what is the value of these currencies in comparison to say the euro or US Dollar?


To save [v] the trouble of answering this again...
[violet] wrote:
Farrakhan wrote:When comparing the overall size of two different economies from the outlook data, is each nation's default currency of equal value to one another (ie. Country XYZ default currency always equals Country ABC default currency)? Or is there some sort of floating exchange rate that makes for more complication than readily meets the eye?

I'm trying to avoid re-answering questions that were already covered earlier in the thread, because I only have so much time, but this keeps coming up, so: There is no concept of exchange rates in NationStates at the moment. I don't know if we'll implement one in the future. In the meantime, you can assume that nation currencies are 1:1 with each other, and to US dollars, if you like.
Gollum died for your sins.
Power is an equal-opportunity corrupter.

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Christian Democrats
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Posts: 10093
Founded: Jul 29, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby Christian Democrats » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:23 pm

I have a puppet nation whose economy has disappeared completely.

0% private industry
0% government
0% state-owned industry

Is this supposed to happen for some nations, or is this a bug?
Leo Tolstoy wrote:Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.
GA#160: Forced Marriages Ban Act (79%)
GA#175: Organ and Blood Donations Act (68%)^
SC#082: Repeal "Liberate Catholic" (80%)
GA#200: Foreign Marriage Recognition (54%)
GA#213: Privacy Protection Act (70%)
GA#231: Marital Rape Justice Act (81%)^
GA#233: Ban Profits on Workers' Deaths (80%)*
GA#249: Stopping Suicide Seeds (70%)^
GA#253: Repeal "Freedom in Medical Research" (76%)
GA#285: Assisted Suicide Act (70%)^
GA#310: Disabled Voters Act (81%)
GA#373: Repeal "Convention on Execution" (54%)
GA#468: Prohibit Private Prisons (57%)^

* denotes coauthorship
^ repealed resolution
#360: Electile Dysfunction
#452: Foetal Furore
#560: Bicameral Backlash
#570: Clerical Errors

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Mousebumples
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 8623
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Mousebumples » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:25 pm

Christian Democrats wrote:I have a puppet nation whose economy has disappeared completely.

0% private industry
0% government
0% state-owned industry

Is this supposed to happen for some nations, or is this a bug?

What is the nation? It'll be easier for the techies to investigate if they can check into the specific example in question.
Leader of the Mouse-a-rific Mousetastic Moderator Mousedom of Mousebumples
Past WA Delegate for Europeia & Monkey Island
Proud Member of UNOG
I'm an "adorably marvelous NatSov" - Mallorea and Riva
GA Resolutions (sorted by category) | Why Repeal? | Reppy's Sig Workshop

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Christian Democrats
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10093
Founded: Jul 29, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby Christian Democrats » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:35 pm

Mousebumples wrote:
Christian Democrats wrote:I have a puppet nation whose economy has disappeared completely.

0% private industry
0% government
0% state-owned industry

Is this supposed to happen for some nations, or is this a bug?

What is the nation? It'll be easier for the techies to investigate if they can check into the specific example in question.

I often like keeping my identities somewhat separate, but a few people already know this is my nation.

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=christian_anarchists/detail=economy

It wouldn't be difficult to guess. :p
Leo Tolstoy wrote:Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.
GA#160: Forced Marriages Ban Act (79%)
GA#175: Organ and Blood Donations Act (68%)^
SC#082: Repeal "Liberate Catholic" (80%)
GA#200: Foreign Marriage Recognition (54%)
GA#213: Privacy Protection Act (70%)
GA#231: Marital Rape Justice Act (81%)^
GA#233: Ban Profits on Workers' Deaths (80%)*
GA#249: Stopping Suicide Seeds (70%)^
GA#253: Repeal "Freedom in Medical Research" (76%)
GA#285: Assisted Suicide Act (70%)^
GA#310: Disabled Voters Act (81%)
GA#373: Repeal "Convention on Execution" (54%)
GA#468: Prohibit Private Prisons (57%)^

* denotes coauthorship
^ repealed resolution
#360: Electile Dysfunction
#452: Foetal Furore
#560: Bicameral Backlash
#570: Clerical Errors

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Luna Amore
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 15751
Founded: Antiquity
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Luna Amore » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:38 pm

Christian Democrats wrote:
Mousebumples wrote:What is the nation? It'll be easier for the techies to investigate if they can check into the specific example in question.

I often like keeping my identities somewhat separate, but a few people already know this is my nation.

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=christian_anarchists/detail=economy

It wouldn't be difficult to guess. :p

I don't want that one fixed. It's awesome! A frightening non-existent economy.

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Christian Democrats
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10093
Founded: Jul 29, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby Christian Democrats » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:45 pm

Luna Amore wrote:
Christian Democrats wrote:I often like keeping my identities somewhat separate, but a few people already know this is my nation.

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=christian_anarchists/detail=economy

It wouldn't be difficult to guess. :p

I don't want that one fixed. It's awesome! A frightening non-existent economy.

Apparently, running your economy according to the principles of anarchism screws up the calculations.

:D

There are also incongruities on the national description (main page), which are amusing to read.
Leo Tolstoy wrote:Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.
GA#160: Forced Marriages Ban Act (79%)
GA#175: Organ and Blood Donations Act (68%)^
SC#082: Repeal "Liberate Catholic" (80%)
GA#200: Foreign Marriage Recognition (54%)
GA#213: Privacy Protection Act (70%)
GA#231: Marital Rape Justice Act (81%)^
GA#233: Ban Profits on Workers' Deaths (80%)*
GA#249: Stopping Suicide Seeds (70%)^
GA#253: Repeal "Freedom in Medical Research" (76%)
GA#285: Assisted Suicide Act (70%)^
GA#310: Disabled Voters Act (81%)
GA#373: Repeal "Convention on Execution" (54%)
GA#468: Prohibit Private Prisons (57%)^

* denotes coauthorship
^ repealed resolution
#360: Electile Dysfunction
#452: Foetal Furore
#560: Bicameral Backlash
#570: Clerical Errors

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Ausland
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Nov 30, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Ausland » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:44 am

G'day.
I have spent years building up my economy in this nation and many others. Now after the refactoring, it has all been halfed or more! Trout fishing for example, was 19, now 5.
How is that fair???
I know you can change it through issue's, but that was over three years worth of issue's answered to get that score, and now for it to be thrown away.
I would like to know why mine has been affected so greatly? If something went wrong?

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Schwarzaria
Secretary
 
Posts: 28
Founded: Sep 13, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Schwarzaria » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:14 am

This update threw my economy to trash, from 100 to 14. My friend has equal and i some degree weaker economy (manufactoring mine 10 vs his 4), and he maintained his 93. Could somebody say to me why this occured? And why mine government spending on industry (24%) turned into international aid (i had issue about it, but i counquered those countries, didn't help them). Help, i want to know the truth.
Economic Left/Right: 5.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.54

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Jinwoy
Senator
 
Posts: 3836
Founded: May 30, 2011
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Jinwoy » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:23 am

Everyone who has suddenly had their main industries shrunk - everyone's has been shrunk. Everyone is still operating on the same scale.

If you suddenly have a lack of an economy, blame it on the rich.
10 13! Years of Jinwoy
Only 8 years left until I can legally buy alcohol
Late-twenties/Straight White Male/Annoyingly Mildly Accelerationist
Hot Take: France is actually pretty cool, aside from all the neocolonialism and institutional racism. Paris still sucks.

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Luna Amore
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 15751
Founded: Antiquity
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Luna Amore » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:47 am

Schwarzaria wrote:This update threw my economy to trash, from 100 to 14. My friend has equal and i some degree weaker economy (manufactoring mine 10 vs his 4), and he maintained his 93. Could somebody say to me why this occured? And why mine government spending on industry (24%) turned into international aid (i had issue about it, but i counquered those countries, didn't help them). Help, i want to know the truth.

The refractoring didn't cause that. You picked option 2 of Issue #242:

"20 hours ago: Following new legislation in Schwarzaria, SchwarzWeiss has been self-declared as the Most Supreme Magnificent Overlord of Everything You Ever Saw."

This is the option text for reference:

"2. "Give me that!" interrupts your brother, incorrigible as always. "I've got an idea, bear with me for a moment... a few penstrokes here... a few clauses there... finished. Now you can set yourself up as Supreme Evil Overlord For Life! If you don't have complete control then where's the fun? That's what I say. I've taken the liberty of cutting some of the more boring departments, we only really need the police and military in my opinion. Oh! You get a free space hopper too."

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Bari
Diplomat
 
Posts: 896
Founded: Jun 27, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Bari » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:36 am

Is it possible for me to have access to the formulas used to calculate the numbers found here and here? Thank you.
Que Dieu bénisse la Bari
Pour la plus grande gloire de Dieu

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Bears Armed
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21479
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:17 am

Christian Democrats wrote:I often like keeping my identities somewhat separate, but a few people already know this is my nation.

http://www.nationstates.net/nation=christian_anarchists/detail=economy

I've never seen this before!

"Crime, especially youth-related, is so common that it is unusual to encounter someone following the law, probably because of the absence of a police force. "

^-^
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474, 1521.

User avatar
Schwarzaria
Secretary
 
Posts: 28
Founded: Sep 13, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Schwarzaria » Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:57 am

Luna Amore wrote:
Schwarzaria wrote:This update threw my economy to trash, from 100 to 14. My friend has equal and i some degree weaker economy (manufactoring mine 10 vs his 4), and he maintained his 93. Could somebody say to me why this occured? And why mine government spending on industry (24%) turned into international aid (i had issue about it, but i counquered those countries, didn't help them). Help, i want to know the truth.

The refractoring didn't cause that. You picked option 2 of Issue #242:

"20 hours ago: Following new legislation in Schwarzaria, SchwarzWeiss has been self-declared as the Most Supreme Magnificent Overlord of Everything You Ever Saw."

This is the option text for reference:

"2. "Give me that!" interrupts your brother, incorrigible as always. "I've got an idea, bear with me for a moment... a few penstrokes here... a few clauses there... finished. Now you can set yourself up as Supreme Evil Overlord For Life! If you don't have complete control then where's the fun? That's what I say. I've taken the liberty of cutting some of the more boring departments, we only really need the police and military in my opinion. Oh! You get a free space hopper too."

But how declaring myself Overlord of everything annihilates mine economy? I see no reason why economy would get hiroshima'd. Freedom and political right yes, but how economy?
Economic Left/Right: 5.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.54

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Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:10 pm

Schwarzaria wrote:
Luna Amore wrote:The refractoring didn't cause that. You picked option 2 of Issue #242:

"20 hours ago: Following new legislation in Schwarzaria, SchwarzWeiss has been self-declared as the Most Supreme Magnificent Overlord of Everything You Ever Saw."

This is the option text for reference:

"2. "Give me that!" interrupts your brother, incorrigible as always. "I've got an idea, bear with me for a moment... a few penstrokes here... a few clauses there... finished. Now you can set yourself up as Supreme Evil Overlord For Life! If you don't have complete control then where's the fun? That's what I say. I've taken the liberty of cutting some of the more boring departments, we only really need the police and military in my opinion. Oh! You get a free space hopper too."

But how declaring myself Overlord of everything annihilates mine economy? I see no reason why economy would get hiroshima'd. Freedom and political right yes, but how economy?


You cleared the boring departments, which includes upkeeping infrastructure and business subsidies, which are crucial to a nice economy.
Last edited by Valrifell on Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

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[violet]
Executive Director
 
Posts: 16207
Founded: Antiquity

Postby [violet] » Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:23 pm

BLACKGRUE wrote:Just a quick note/suggestion from me. I have been trying to run a "Re-investment heavy" socialist nation. The problem is the issues that allow me to re-invest in my economy consider such investments corperate welfare.

This means that despite my 100% tax rate (which should make private industry impossible) private industry still makes up 48% of my economy.

I'm not quite sure I understand your point here. It's certainly possible for private industry to coexist with a 100% tax rate. It's not common. You may wonder what is motivating those brave entrepreneurs who go out and start businesses, knowing everything they earn will go to the state. The common good, I imagine.

Anyway, although it is sometimes called "corporate welfare" when governments spend money helping private business, you can also call it "investment."

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[violet]
Executive Director
 
Posts: 16207
Founded: Antiquity

Postby [violet] » Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:25 pm

Malessere wrote:I have a problem my nation Malessere and my nation Arzenejev are in the top 10% for the world for Largest Public Sector (Arzenejev is in the top 10% and malessere is in the top 5%) but in the two nations the tax is "unheard of" if this is correct, ok i don't say nothing, but i think is very strange.

Those trophies are only updated during a World Census. Have those categories run since refactoring?

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