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Bring back the competition

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Naivetry
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Bring back the competition

Postby Naivetry » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:03 pm

One simple idea.

A newly elected WA Delegate cannot eject any nation for 24 hours.

EDIT: Nor, as Ballotonia so rightly pointed out, change/institute a new password.
Last edited by Naivetry on Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Marcuslandia
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Marcuslandia » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:53 pm

Naivetry wrote:One simple idea.

A newly elected WA Delegate cannot eject any nation for 24 hours.


I'd go for MUCH longer than 24-hours. I'd suggest 5 days.

[Keep in mind that whatever period you specify would also apply to any liberators that took the Delegate position away from the invaders.]
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Ballotonia
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Ballotonia » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:10 pm

As long as passwording a region takes 24 hours (directly after the following update), then extending the proposed limit to 5 days makes no difference I can see.

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Unibot
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Unibot » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:21 pm

One word: Brilliant

Its so simple, I can see it being implemented now. I hope the powers that be are listening.

I'll do my part and put in on the list. Maybe I'll even bold it.

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Kopria
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Kopria » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:26 pm

i suggest 1 minute.

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Unibot
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Unibot » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:38 pm

i suggest 1 minute.


Well, I suggest 2 years! Beat that! - That should really put the raiders' patience to the test! :palm:

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Naivetry
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Naivetry » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:43 pm

Marcuslandia wrote:[Keep in mind that whatever period you specify would also apply to any liberators that took the Delegate position away from the invaders.]

Quite - that's one reason why I suggested 24 hours instead of 5 days. :P

We can quibble over the timeframe - I thought about suggesting 48 - but I thought 24 hours seemed fair. That takes it to the next major update.

Extending that time to 5 days would give too much of an advantage to defenders. We generally outnumber raiders when it comes right down to it. It ought to be dependent on skill and dedication, as well, which is what a relatively short (24-hour) time frame ensures.
Last edited by Naivetry on Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Romanar
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Romanar » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:44 pm

I like the idea!

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Marcuslandia
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Marcuslandia » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:17 pm

Naivetry wrote:
Marcuslandia wrote:[Keep in mind that whatever period you specify would also apply to any liberators that took the Delegate position away from the invaders.]

Quite - that's one reason why I suggested 24 hours instead of 5 days. :P


The reason I suggested the longer timeframe was for the benefit of players that do NOT check up on the game every day. For someone that pops in every few says, if his region is invaded shortly after he was last there, the whole thing is practically a done deal by the time he gets back. With a longer time frame before invaders can do something (practically) irreversible, that category of player might be able to switch his endorsement from the new Delegate that turned out to be an infiltrator, or simply join in the defender effort to organize a defense, etc.

Not everybody that enjoys the game stays glued to what happens in the game. I don't think they should have fewer rights than the fanatics just because of that fact.
"If you don't know what is worth dying for, your life isn't worth living."

"Choose wisely."

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TannerFrankLand
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby TannerFrankLand » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:19 pm

Marcuslandia wrote:
Naivetry wrote:
Marcuslandia wrote:[Keep in mind that whatever period you specify would also apply to any liberators that took the Delegate position away from the invaders.]

Quite - that's one reason why I suggested 24 hours instead of 5 days. :P


The reason I suggested the longer timeframe was for the benefit of players that do NOT check up on the game every day. For someone that pops in every few says, if his region is invaded shortly after he was last there, the whole thing is practically a done deal by the time he gets back. With a longer time frame before invaders can do something (practically) irreversible, that category of player might be able to switch his endorsement from the new Delegate that turned out to be an infiltrator, or simply join in the defender effort to organize a defense, etc.

Not everybody that enjoys the game stays glued to what happens in the game. I don't think they should have fewer rights than the fanatics just because of that fact.

I agree, but the "fanatics" won't... :D
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Unibot
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Unibot » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:23 pm

The reason I suggested the longer timeframe was for the benefit of players that do NOT check up on the game every day. For someone that pops in every few says, if his region is invaded shortly after he was last there, the whole thing is practically a done deal by the time he gets back. With a longer time frame before invaders can do something (practically) irreversible, that category of player might be able to switch his endorsement from the new Delegate that turned out to be an infiltrator, or simply join in the defender effort to organize a defense, etc.

Not everybody that enjoys the game stays glued to what happens in the game. I don't think they should have fewer rights than the fanatics just because of that fact.


Granted. But I believe people who aren't glued to the game (I envy them...) typically don't have as much patience for the game, in particular - n00bs. I remember feeling frustrated that I had to wait a whole freaken day (OMG) to join the WA! Imagine trying to start a region with a couple friends, and having to wait 5 whole days to have a delegate gain power. It would be annoying for them I think, and might turn them off the game.

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Marcuslandia
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Marcuslandia » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:12 pm

Unibot wrote:Granted. But I believe people who aren't glued to the game (I envy them...) typically don't have as much patience for the game, in particular - n00bs. I remember feeling frustrated that I had to wait a whole freaken day (OMG) to join the WA! Imagine trying to start a region with a couple friends, and having to wait 5 whole days to have a delegate gain power. It would be annoying for them I think, and might turn them off the game.


If they're attention span is _that_ short, odds favor that they'd wander off within the first few months anyway. (Like about the time that they start to see issues being repeated.)
"If you don't know what is worth dying for, your life isn't worth living."

"Choose wisely."

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Unibot
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Unibot » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:22 pm

Well actually, I have one of the smallest attention spans I've ever encountered.

And NationStates plays to that characteristic very well, because if you get bored of one aspect of the game theres always another aspect that's there to drag you back in.

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Marcuslandia
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Marcuslandia » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:33 pm

Unibot wrote:Well actually, I have one of the smallest attention spans I've ever encountered.

And NationStates plays to that characteristic very well, because if you get bored of one aspect of the game theres always another aspect that's there to drag you back in.


I hear that one loud and clear. I've been laying back running an issues experiment for three months. It took having my region overrun to get me involved in forum discussions for the first time. This is surprisingly the most interesting aspect I've ever found in the game. (And now you know why I've been posting so fricking much. Just making up for lost time.)
"If you don't know what is worth dying for, your life isn't worth living."

"Choose wisely."

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TannerFrankLand
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby TannerFrankLand » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:37 pm

Marcuslandia wrote:
Unibot wrote:Well actually, I have one of the smallest attention spans I've ever encountered.

And NationStates plays to that characteristic very well, because if you get bored of one aspect of the game theres always another aspect that's there to drag you back in.


I hear that one loud and clear. I've been laying back running an issues experiment for three months. It took having my region overrun to get me involved in forum discussions for the first time. This is surprisingly the most interesting aspect I've ever found in the game. (And now you know why I've been posting so fricking much. Just making up for lost time.)

Same situation here, I've always either been to involved in my region, or just inactive and only getting on like once a week... but now that I found this forum it's fun!!! Except instead of the region being overrun by invaders, it was being banned from a region for speaking out.
WA Security Council:
SC #3 ~ Condemn Nazi Europe [SORRY!]
SC #12 ~ Commend Todd McCloud
SC #18 ~ Commend Sedgistan
SC #27 ~ Condemn Unknown
SC #36 ~ Liberate Eastern Europe
SC #51 ~ Commend Fudgetopia
SC #67 ~ Commend Naivetry
SC #71 ~ Repeal Condemn Unknown.
WA General Assembly:
GA #81 ~ Disaster Preparedness Act
GA #105 ~ Preparing For Disasters
GA #164 ~ Consular Rights
GA #278 ~ Repeal "Right to Privacy"
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Zemnaya Svoboda
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Zemnaya Svoboda » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:20 pm

I endorse this idea as an innovative and quite possibly brilliant one.

It should not be longer than 1 un1 update cycle however.

1 Referring to un update in the technical sense as the URLs are still page=un...

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Biyah
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Biyah » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:34 pm

I think this is a very bad idea, actually.

It means that for 24 hours, there is no control, a delegate can't remove invaders (or defenders, on the flip side) so the region is a free-for-all.

I can very easily see invaders and defenders pouring more and more people into a single region, seeing it switch hands daily, until eventually everyone available is tied up- before anyone could finally boot the other side.

For a region that never wanted that play in the first place, this would be hell. For those of us who do like to move around to new defenses daily, this would be a serious pain in the arse.

No ban limit.
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So sleep soundly in your beds tonight, for judgement falls upon you at first light. I'm the hand of God, I'm the dark messiah, I'm the vengeful one.

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Naivetry
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Naivetry » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:36 pm

Biyah wrote:I think this is a very bad idea, actually.

It means that for 24 hours, there is no control, a delegate can't remove invaders (or defenders, on the flip side) so the region is a free-for-all.

I can very easily see invaders and defenders pouring more and more people into a single region, seeing it switch hands daily, until eventually everyone available is tied up- before anyone could finally boot the other side.

For a region that never wanted that play in the first place, this would be hell. For those of us who do like to move around to new defenses daily, this would be a serious pain in the arse.

No ban limit.

C'mon, Biyah - were you around for Rajahland? That was some of the most fun we've had in ages.

And while the natives may be annoyed, they won't getting booted and having their region destroyed.

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Biyah
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Biyah » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:37 pm

Says who?

An extended battle for the delegacy does not preclude the possibility of lock/booting in the future.

It just means that all activity in the game is focused in one place, to the increasing annoyance of natives, rather then in several regions at once.
-Lord Menelian, Patriarch of The House of Rahl, Reborn.


So sleep soundly in your beds tonight, for judgement falls upon you at first light. I'm the hand of God, I'm the dark messiah, I'm the vengeful one.

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Naivetry
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Naivetry » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:38 pm

I'll take "in the future if defenders don't get their act together" over "right now with no questions asked, deal with it."

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Biyah
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Biyah » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:40 pm

You may, I don't.

This is not a new strategy, this is a numbers game. The person with the most friends- wins.

where is the 'fun' in that? If I wanted to raid my myspace and facebook for soldiers, just so I can get enough of an upper hand to crush an invasion, I'd have started doing so long ago. And that is all this will do, force us to find more and more UN's so we have something approaching 'overwhelming force', just so we can keep the delegacy long enough to boot.

This means there would be no clear end to an invasion or defense. It would be one, long, battle- it would become a war of attrition.
Last edited by Biyah on Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-Lord Menelian, Patriarch of The House of Rahl, Reborn.


So sleep soundly in your beds tonight, for judgement falls upon you at first light. I'm the hand of God, I'm the dark messiah, I'm the vengeful one.

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Defaultia II
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Defaultia II » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:44 pm

Biyah wrote:This means there would be no clear end to an invasion or defense. It would be one, long, battle- it would become a war of attrition.

As opposed to the current game, where it's a war of attrition with no fighting back. (See: Belgium)

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Biyah
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Biyah » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:46 pm

Belgium is not unique, its been happening. To suddenly scream about it now is hypocrisy, and demeaning to the rest of the regions that were locked.

Yes, things are broken now, that's why I'm no longer in the defense game much any more. However, this is not the way. This strategy would have us all tied up in a no-win scenario.
-Lord Menelian, Patriarch of The House of Rahl, Reborn.


So sleep soundly in your beds tonight, for judgement falls upon you at first light. I'm the hand of God, I'm the dark messiah, I'm the vengeful one.

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Naivetry
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Naivetry » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:53 pm

Belgium is one example that happened at the perfect time - an old founderless region with a ton of history getting destroyed right when [violet] has been making coding changes. You bet I'm going to take that opportunity and rally around Belgium as the latest and biggest example of everything that's been wrong for the last 3 years.

As for the "numbers game" - NS has always been about networking. It's about being able to coordinate well enough and quickly enough to get a job done. That's what led people to group together in regions, and that's what led to interregional diplomacy. And the very existence of the ADN. Defenders will have 24 hours to spot the raid, or we'll be back in the same situation as always, with liberations next to impossible. That strategy will remain if we want to help anyone who's been raided for longer than a day.

I just want that 24 hour window to have a chance of making a difference.

EDIT: How is that a no-win scenario? Hold on to the delegacy for 24 hours, and it's yours, just like under the old rules.
Last edited by Naivetry on Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Biyah
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Re: Bring back the competition

Postby Biyah » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:58 pm

I don't, that makes it to easy. There was a point to Invasion Spotters, that's where Tactics and Strategy came in.

Do this, and there will BE no strategy. Invaders won't have to be sneaky, they'll just have to pray that everyone is to blind to see that they took a delegacy.

There will be no point, at all, to moving soldiers around before update. Because, of course, the invaders wouldn't be able to remove the defenders during the day. There would be no liberation attempts, just extended troop movements to make sure we had more people then the invaders come next update.

There is no skill involved here, no pre-planning- just a lot of texting and messaging. "Yeah, you free sometime today? Great, move to X region- we have to remove the invaders before they get boot power"

And, of course, if we DID take said delegacy- they would have 24 hours to do the same. We'd reset the 24 hour clock. And then, the next day, if we managed to take it back. And then the next... and the next... and then next. .....
-Lord Menelian, Patriarch of The House of Rahl, Reborn.


So sleep soundly in your beds tonight, for judgement falls upon you at first light. I'm the hand of God, I'm the dark messiah, I'm the vengeful one.

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